Second SS316 removable forestay to accommodate a hank-on jib on a 1985 Hunter 28.5

[Sailingone]

I bought a H28.5 this week and want to add an additional, removable SS316 for stay, just behind the main forestay, that is fitted with a Furler, to be able to fly a jib in heavier winds, without having to do a sailchange on the furler.
Has anyone ever considered this ?
When the Jib is not in use, the hank-on sail will only be lowered, but not removed, then secured in a bag and the complete second forestay loosened with a quick release mechanism and secured at the side of the mast.
Reason, I sail a lot solo and dislike sail changes on the furler, while underway.
I believe the deck, about 8-10" behind the tack of the main forestay, with reinforcement, can handle the load and stress at that point on the deck.
Not quite sure what needs to be done at the top of the mast, to anchor a second forestay, but I hope I can make up something that transferes most of the load to where the main forestay is attached to.
The furler that this H28.5 is fitted with, is not the original, as this has the genoa halyard internal to the furler tough-luff extrusion, with the halyard secured just above the drum and rotates with the furler unit. perhaps another reason why I am considering a second removable forestay, to fly a jib.
Any thoughts or suggestions. The H28.5 is a double spreader strait and masthead rig.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I often caution folks, especially with new-to-them boats: slow down, wait, become familiar first BEFORE you start making big changes.

Given your description of your gear, it sounds like you have an older CDI furler. I had one when I bought my 1986 C34 in 1998, only 12 years old. For a boat of that size, and yours which isn't that much smaller, those furlers are, ahem, a joke; a toy that would work on a 22 footer, maybe.

Instead of the complications of a second forestay, and IMHO of no need for one with your rig, consider replacing your furler with a new 21st century piece of gear. I replaced that CDI and chose ProFurl because of its built-in wrap stop top swivel. Harken is another great choice.

IIRC, you don't really have a big genoa, you have a huge mainsail and a small working jib. What year is your boat? Am I correct? If so, deal with higher winds by reefing your main. My masthead sloop would "like" to reef the main at 18 knots and on windy SF Bay I ran a summer 85 and winter 110 jib on the furler and never used the furler to reef a jib even though ProFurl supported that. I chose a jib for each season.

Good luck, hope you think this through before you do something unnecessary.

 

[kloudie1]

You could also consider a jib with a wire luff so that second halyard could be out of the way when tacking the roller furl sail. The wire luff sets “flying “ so no stay required.

 

[Tally Ho]

Why not just add a furler to the existing main stay, and get a sail that is designed to be furled? The furler means you can reef the head sail to meet wind conditions, no sail changes are needed, and you don’t have to have someone figure out mounting points on the mast and the deck to support a new stay.

I have a 130 Genoa on my O’Day 322 (down from a 150 when I bought her) and find that reefing the headsail allows me to sail in 20-25 knot winds (either reefed main or just headsail). I have been out I. 30 knot winds with just the headsail reefed down.

The furler gives a ton of flexibility without over-complicating the rig.

Greg

 

[Calif. Ted]

I think a decent furler a much better solution as others have mentioned. I regularly furl and unfurl and back again as winds change over the course of the day.

 

[jssailem]

Here is an example of a cutter rig. Is this what you are imagining?

This is a “fractional” rig design. The fore sail does not go to the mast head. There are 2 stays on the foredeck. The inner one is often referred to as a Stay Sail. The design is called cutter rig. The inside stay can be removable.

Your boat is a B&R rig sloop.

The design can be a little difficult to rig a stay sail. The suggestion by @Stu Jackson is a good one. A small jib can be rigged on a more modern furler and used when the conditions dictate. That is how I rig my boat. I have a 95 jib and a 135 Genoa. When conditions get sporty In rig the 95 and find it easy

 

[shemandr]

I don't see why a smaller headsail with a wire luff couldn't be flown from a position aft of the jib furler. I would reenforce the deck with a small stay so you can get halyard tension on the luff of the smaller jib. At least I would want a substantial backing plate. I'd note that on a C&C 25 I used to sail on there was a removable baby stay and it was supported by a wire with a turnbuckle. I don't recall how it was terminated on the hull but it was original so a fitting was probable glassed into the hull during the build. It was standing rigging when it was attached. The stay was detachable because tacks were complicated by its presence. It existed to keep the mast from pumping in seas. So that's different than this but I wouldn't want to tack the larger jib with the smaller in place. The OP would have to go up on the foredeck to rig the smaller jib. So that's something to consider.
As an aside traditionally sail was shortened so the center of effort moved toward the mast for better balance of the sail plan. Furlers kind of broke that rule and we're evidently not going back. So in reality the smaller jib would not be very different from a furled larger jib in regard to the balance.

 

[jssailem]

I wouldn't want to tack the larger jib with the smaller in place.

That is the very reason the idea, while possible, is not advisable. You can see the space provided in the Cutter Rig image (message #6). Even though there are several feet of space, often there is a foredeck crew stationed to assist the genoa through the slot between the forestay and the "baby stay", especially if racing.

Alternatively, some cruisers choose to reef the foresail, tack, and then reset the foresail on the new course. This avoids sending the crew to the foredeck for the course change.

With all this advice, I remind myself, it is his 28ft boat, and if he wants a cutter rig, why not?

Go for it, as it enhances your style of sailing.

 

[Tally Ho]

With all this advice, I remind myself, it is his 28ft boat, and if he wants a cutter rig, why not?

Then he should have bought a cutter


Greg

 

[Stu Jackson]

John, because this boat is brand new to him. We do not know what his sailing experience is or has been, but the nature of his question elicited similar responses from multiple contributors. And "new boat syndrome" almost always suggests caution in making major changes until familiarity with the boat is achieved.

With all this advice, I remind myself, it is his 28ft boat, and if he wants a cutter rig, why not?

 

[shemandr]

I wouldn’t even buy new sails until I had a season or so into the boat. How would you know what you want? Don’t you need to learn the boat’s strengths and weaknesses before making big changes?
I understand if you are buying into a class of known boats with lots of info out there. Even then major mods are restricted.
I know folks who cruise on a J24. A lot different than racing around the buoys on Wednesday nights. Even more different from racing in one design fleets. I don’t think one size fits all works in regard to sails. Yeah class rules specify basic dimensions of a sail. But from there it’s artwork.

 

[Joe]

Don't do anything to change the rig yet, wait till you've put some time in. Always reef the mainsail first. Roll up the genoa if it get too windy, Save your money for a proper reefing furler. If you want to add another stay, make it a removable inner forestay. best for storm jib application. A wire luff stay sail may be a good option. Reinforce the foredeck with a large plywood backing plate glassed in underneath (in the vee berth area,)

 

[Sailingone]

Thank you all for responding to my request for information concerning a H28.5 that I just took ownership off.
The choice for this boat was, to satisfy my only crew and soon to be the helms person, while the grinding and the rest is my job.
Due to prior injuries, maturity, switching from racing to performance cruising and a lower draft requirement.
The lake water high tide is usually in early June when the entrance debt is about 7.5 feet and slowly drops.
The Low tide is in late March, when the run off typically starts and usually 4 feet lower than the high tide.
This year, due to very low runoff and no snow in the valley this past winter, the water level after run off was >3 feet lower than normal.
The entrance-exit to the marina basin was only 5 feet by the end of July, a nightmare for most sailboats.

FYI, I started racing my own boat in 2008, after sailing and crewing part-time for 4 weeks during the summer, starting in 2003.
First boats to last in order, Santana 23A my away boat, and a SJ21 close-by home boat.
In 2004 switches from the Santana 23 to a Tanzer 26, sold the SJ21 in 2006, Semi retired in 2007 and spent the summers in my away place, where I started racing the Tanzer 26 until 2011. By 2010 started to have some racing success with the Tanzer 26 and felt the need to a faster boat and bought a Ranger 8.5. There is very little info on this boat when I bought here but my cut feel, looking at the boat and the one online score sheet I could find, rating her at 186. Only 11 were ever build and all are in WA state, where they were build, with one in BC.
In 2014 won the overall of 6 regattas here on our lake, 60 mils long 2 miles wide in the Okanagan.
In 2015 bought a Dehler 29 in WA, kept her on the coast for 4 months, cruised the San Juan's, took in the Whidbey Island race week crewing and after English bay, then moved her to the Okanagan.
There we raced and day sailed her often, but did not race her in Regatates anymore after 2022. Due to the water debt issues, sold her in 2025 and she was relocated to Oceanside CA. She was a great fast boat upwind with here 1.80 draft and got good placings with hardware racing here.
In 2025 got my old Ranger 8.5 back that I passed on to another younger sailor in our club last week.
The 1985 H28.5 with a main and a genoa on a furler is obviously a compromise, especially with the shoal keel on a narrow lake with fast switching wind conditions. However to accommodate the new skipper and her requirements, she will be the boat, we have to sail.
Her requirements were, wheel steering, wind instruments to avoid looking up at the wind vane to see where the boat is relative to the wind, (Raymarine i50 and i60 package), autohelm, a head with a door and a 12 volt fridge to keep the beverages cool.
She is fitted with the Yanmar 2GM20F, a biggy, plus she was 5 slips away and priced to reflect the work needed, which is;
Cutless bearing, dripless repairs, maybe a gearbox overhaul, autohelm issues and the navigation lighting & wiring needs to be re-done.
Over the years I have done my share of sailboat maintenance, repairs and enhancements, other than fibreglass work.
Have a bunch of wallpaper, "trade tickets" that include millwright / machinist, automotive, Heavy duty mechanic and a steam ticket, plus many years of experience, including fixing engineering screw ups.
The enhancements I am planning for,;
1) reorganizing the deck and bringing back all the lines to accommodate solo sailing for a sailor in his seventies.
Currently only two lines go back to the cockpit, the main halyard and the furling line, so there is a challenging project ahead.
Comparing this to my Dehler 29, where 14 lines came back to the cockpit and I/we never had to leave the cockpit to sail the boat double handed or solo, with a drifter/genekker on a conventional furled set up on a bow sprit. Used to fly both the asymmetrical and spinnaker double handed, but that was then.
As a racer, furling a genoa upwind is like pizz'n in the wind, so I will not go there, as this boat is sailed on a narrow lake with shifty winds that can go from 2 knots to 25 knots in <5 minutes.
Therefore I will be exploring, setting up a second forestay just behind the furler, to raise a hank-on jib when the wind changes and then often switches 180 degrees.
2) install a soft luff sail halyard, currently there is no spin halyard or spinnaker set up
3) install a bowsprit to accommodate a drifter, gennaker or code zero on a furler, I have designed and tested a prototype conventional furler for this.
4) Electric toilet.
Our lift out will likely be earlier this year, the end of September, I will pull the mast and explore how to best, safely and within the engineering limits of the mast, to fit a second quick removable forestay wire.
I am a bit puzzled by the rig and it's cross wires between spreaders and back to the mast.for this Masthead, double spreader, aggressively swept back, with a heavy adjustable backstay. The three shroud wires rig, that is the same size as my Dehler 29, the same deck fitting with the steel rod inside attached directly to the boat's under and keel structure, which is impressive, given my limited experience with other sailboat designs, it the 27-29 feet of that era and within the price range of the Hunters.
I will provide updates as attack this ambitious winter list of necessary repairs and a wishlist of enhancements.
Always welcome comments and suggestions.
Cheers to you all.