Sea(wo)manship

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Ctskip

.
Sep 21, 2005
732
other 12 wet water
women can do anything they want

sailing isn't any different. Why would they choose to do the work, when a man is around to do it for them? Some enjoy the bull work too. Most don't. They use their heads and men use their brawn. Maybe more men captain their vessels, so they can get away from women? Same holds true for NASCAR. More men than women. It's the edge that attracts the men. Just my quick thoughts on it. Keep it up, Ctskip
 
B

BJV

I know a fantastic skipper

I race on Wed nights and the owner/skipper is Beth, a retired prof who does an excellent job skippering. She handles her crew a bit different than other skippers but that doesnt stop us from getting firsts and seconds many a race. Oh and bye the way, in her off times she cruises extensively including trips from Cape May to Block Island and back down LIS.
 
M

Miki

Too many obnoxious males!

Women tend to avoid sailing for many reasons -- not the least of which is primitive and repulsive behavior and negative attitudes by males in what is supposed to be a pleasant sport. I have heard men on the dock talking loudly about women as if they had only two functions on a boat: cooking and providing males with sexual gratification. I have watched husbands refuse to tell their wives anything about boat handling and treat them as if they were imbeciles even when they (the wives) wanted to learn. BUT things are changing: as ease of handling moves ever forward with breakthroughs in technology, the need for brute strength disappears. Women sailors are ultimately going to leave men in the dust. It's only a matter of time!
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Not a chance

>Women sailors are ultimately going to leave men in the dust. It's only a matter of time! There isn't ANYTHING a woman can do that a man can't do better on a boat. Ever see a woman on a volvo racing crew? With all the money involved, you better believe it's because of a lack of ability and not an ego thing (money trumps ego anytime). Funny how you put the word "Woman" in a topic and they all come out of the woodwork but never to be herd on other topics.
 
E

Elaine

My husband told me to answer this one...

My husband told me to answer this one...I think because he is proud of me. We own a 2004 Hunter 33, and had two smaller sailboats before that. We took lessons when we bought this one, and the first thing the instructors told us was that they did not recommend husbands and wives taking classes together!! Why? Because that's the way they'd always done it! Well, we insisted we be in the same classes because this is a team effort, not a contest. We work well together, and have only had one or two instances where we didn't communicate well enough. We took another couple out just this past weekend who had never been on a sailboat, and both of them were blown away that I'm the one who takes her out and brings her in to the dock. I have rheumatoid arthritis, with joint implants, and cannot jump onto the dock, but my husband likes that part. They told us several times how impressed they were at the teamwork - with no yelling, by the way - that we displayed - especially when the winds picked up to 24 knots, and we had to reef quick. We like the water bubbling up behind us when the boat is hauling through the water and there's no engine noise. As far as the question about why there aren't many women in sailing? I can only answer that many women I have asked are afraid of it or don't think they could do it. Little do they know that if I can do it, anyone can!!
 

abe

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Jan 2, 2007
736
- - channel islands
Maybe its simpler than brains, muscles, $....

maybe its just men are more interested in sailing than women. abe
 
Mar 10, 2005
35
- - Barnegat Bay, NJ
The reason not listed yet

I am a woman captain and boat owner and I'd like to suggest the reason not yet given: how many of the men here are comfortable being first mate? (For more than the time it takes to go below and get a beer!) How many are willing to take orders from their wife/girlfriend/friend? I am lucky that my husband (who prefers to be addressed as chief engineer) doesn't (usually) have a problem with it, or we'd be spending a lot less time together! Of course, I bought the boat, and the one before (we now have a Catalina 320, previously a Capri 22, and we used to have a couple of Hobie Cats). We learned together after we were married and took a long lapse after our daughters were born, and a few years ago I wanted gung-ho to get back into it. I have been through all the nonsense with various boat salesmen, insurance agents, and equipment dealers. But I have too much enthusiasm for the sport to let any guy's attitude get in the way of my doing what I want to. It seems there's lots of wondering where the women in sailing are, but I have to say, when we're out on Barnegat Bay, I see tons of women besides myself behind the wheel. As with anything else in life, it's better if both partners have the same enthusiasm for any activity, but I just don't think that most men are fully willing to take the position of first mate. When a woman flips through nautical catalogs, there aren't any "captain's" items in her styles or sizes. Plenty though for the "first mate." Tons of galley & cookware items for her. And decorating items. When a woman reads sailing magazines, along with the "Where are the women in sailing" lament, are the articles about how women have ruined sailboat design with their insistence on more homelike interiors that make for slow, beamy boats. The women's sailing forums are full of info on handling children, cooking, and schooling on board, but not on sailing. "How to be a perfect first mate" books are written for women. And when this 5'5" woman bought the current sailboat, the top of the pulpit guard blocked her view from the helm (I manage). I must say, I find it funny how many of the answers here are by men and not women. I have seen quite a few women who just don't want to spend their so-called leisure time arguing with Captain Bligh. And so many guys do take that attitude the minute they step on the boat. For many women, "laying out" on the boat is the easiest way to avoid conflict. And yes, yacht clubs are as bad as golf clubs in the old-boy policies of membership. Just recently I read an article about a woman who had been a member of a club with her husband; when they divorced, she had to re-apply for membership--and was turned down! What makes me really happy is that my 20-year-old daughter has asked to take sailing classes so she can learn to handle a sailboat herself. The 14-year-old daughter, alas, is still happy just being ballast in the cabin. It was a pleasant surprise to find that handling a 34 foot boat (after a 22) was not too hard, and that a furling main eliminates all the "you're folding it wrong" arguments. My husband still gets bent out of shape when I re-do his cleat hitches and request changes in sail trim ... like any good captain, I ignore him, and he goes off to lay out and work on that tan.
 
T

Tom Monroe

It's changing

Enrolled my grandson in a local "sailing camp." There were as many girls as boys in attendance. And awhile back I looked up as a 30 something footer went past in the marina. Young girl, perhaps 10, at the helm. Throttled down, turned into the slip smartly, and nuzzled her up to the dock slick as you please. If my 25 y/o daughter hadn't chosen skiing and rock climbing over sailing, she'd have my boat out all the time. I think many of the older women who have posted here have broken all the ground necessary for younger women to participate on an equal footing. (Thank you!) As a father of daughters, I think that's a GREAT thing. Tom MOnroe Carlyle lake
 
C

capn Bill

Captain Bligh Apologizes!

I asked the Admiral if she wanted to respond to this forum. She asked me to go ahead and convey her thoughts - which made ME realize that I have a few issues to resolve myself! Like most "couples" activities, it's only fun for BOTH if Both are equally enthusiastic. Nothing ruins a good time on the water like treating your spouse like he/she is a second-class crew member! A LOT of men do this - and they WON'T accept a reversal of roles! I used to think I was pretty good at letting my wife run things, but she says, "Unh, unh!" I'm still Captain Bligh - I just don't do floggings on Sunday!Well, I've got to fix that! Bill on STARGAZER
 
Mar 21, 2004
2,175
Hunter 356 Cobb Island, MD
Joan and I discussed this thread..

Last night. Wish she would post her thoughts but left it to me. She came from a previous marriage where HE was CAPT BLIGH. Broke her ribs sailing (hobbie cat) and lived on the edge of everything. Now along comes me with the desire to go sailing. It took her many years before she felt at ease knowing I wasn't going to throw her over board. We both have our chores that one or the other accomplishes. I raise and lower the anchor, more of a strength thing - but last weekend she did it alone. (Knew she could do it the - whimp :) ). She has trouble sometimes with the electronics but keeps at it until she gets it. Has no problems with the radio, will jump right on it and call other boats. What I think happens to women (out on a limb here) is the man. For some reason the men think they have to be in charge, protect, be the knight. The women let them get away with it. For me - "Honey you have it I'm going to take a nap." I must be blessed with a great wife, she likes sailing and driving the boat. Our motto is "If it doesn't feel right - don't do it, don't force it, go around and try it again." Jim S/V Java
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
I can attest...

... to Joan's ability to back that H356 into your slip -- we could all learn from her.
 
May 22, 2006
4
- - Orleans, MA
My thoughts

>There isn't ANYTHING a woman can do that a man can't do better on a boat. While there are lots of things I could say to that (more than one of which has been typed out and deleted), we'll stick to the topic at hand. My husband can outcaptain me any day of the week, true. He's also been sailing since he was a kid. I've been sailing for three years. Funny how that experience thing works. But I'm far better at crewing our boat. I trim our 135% genoa without winch handles or self-tailers (we have the original 1974 winches but the handles are long gone) like it was nothing. And I'm a far better spotter than he is. But that's not the point. On our boat, it's not a competition to see who's better at what. It's about teamwork, playing to each other's strengths while improving on our weaknesses. And we divide up our maintenance projects in much the same way. I don't know the first thing about working fiberglass, but I'm a beast with a rachet and have an uncanny ability to find leaks. By the same token, left up to me, the centerboard pendant would still be broken and the engine still choking and sputtering. To address the original question, I probably never would have gotten into sailing were it not for my husband. My family never owned a boat, nor did we know anyone who did. Lessons were given exclusively at the yacht clubs and only to their members. Or if they did give lessons to the general public, the fees were prohibitively high. Five years ago, a light blue abandoned hulk came into my life and I realized I needed to at least give this sailing thing a fair shot. Thanks to my husband's unfaltering patience and skill as a teacher, I'm now completely addicted. It's all about exposure/opportunity (and, I suspect attitudes like those quoted above do come into play keeping women from taking up the sport later in life). Someone else also mentioned this, but sailing gear for women is pathetically lacking. My sailing gloves? XS and much too big. My foulies, smallest size I could find and still too big. My harness? Well, you get the point. And kids' sizes don't cut it either. I do think the tide is turning when it comes to women in sailing, but I think the flood is still just in the beginning stages.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
They always forget what caused the response

"(and, I suspect attitudes like those quoted above do come into play keeping women from taking up the sport later in life)." How about complaining about the quote that started it all? Of course you wouldn't because you feel the same way.
 
May 22, 2006
4
- - Orleans, MA
"They" respond...

>How about complaining about the quote that started it all? Of course you wouldn't because you feel the same way. While I don't necessarily think women will leave men in the dust, I do think they'll be equally good and I don't see the problem in that. But evidently you do and that's exactly the type of attitude I'm talking about keeping women from the sport. BTW, way to lump all women together when you clearly have a problem with what I said. If your problem is with me, address me directly.
 
Jul 20, 2005
2,422
Whitby 55 Kemah, Tx
Mel (is that good enough for ya)

I said "they" because it seems there was others who wrote something that got deleted. My guess is that they were females who objected to Jack's post. That makes a they. You also don't seem to understand the difference between equal and leaving them in the dust. Sounds to me you just have a chip on your shoulder.
 

Kit

.
Mar 15, 2006
6
Oday 27 Newington NH
Mrs Skipper

I'm the skipper and one with the sailing experience but now my passion for being on a sailboat has rubbed off on my husband. He's totally happy as the Engineer (aka the First+Only Mate) and is a great partner. We are both good at seperate things- they all need getting done so it's all good. I had a fantastic time in Marblehead at the National Women's Sailing Association conference in June. There were 150 women of EVERY level of experience, many who had far more real solid knowledge and skill than most people I've met any marina so far, certainly equal to the mostly-male racing seasons I was in. Inspirational! Circumnavigator, Navy crewmen trainer, Pilot, handicapped-racing Coach, etc., etc. There were also many women attending who truly wanted to improve their limited skills and become more full partners in their own family boats, kudos to them for showing up and making it happen for themselves. I was astounded at the large number of talented cruising women and their networking, I rarely saw that aspect of the sport in the competitive racing atmosphere.
 
Nov 23, 2004
281
Columbia 8.7 Super wide body Deltaville(Richmond)VA
Women's sailing gear IS available

Mel said "Someone else also mentioned this, but sailing gear for women is pathetically lacking. My sailing gloves? XS and much too big. My foulies, smallest size I could find and still too big. My charness? Well, you get the point. And kids' sizes don't cut it either." Try this link for womens gear. http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d39000/e38694.asp
 
Jan 13, 2006
134
- - Chesapeke
I accept I'm a moron

And have no idea, BUT I've an opinion like everybody else. Sailing seems to be alot like camping, guys think of it as getting away, being on your own, self reliant, and stuff like that. The "typical" and stress "typical" female tends to like the more refined things life offers. Therefore roughing it or sailing appeals to a minority of females. There are no "treat me like a princess" women on sailboats. So the minority of women that enjoy sailing end up happily married to a guy that adores them for being able to just do stuff that's fun. The guy knows he has a prize and she gets the adoration and to do fun stuff too. The Princess gripes about everything and he sails after the divorce. I think the Captain issue comes from desire or experience. A tip for most ladies, Men yell when they are insecure about a situation and doubt their own ability. I don't think I yell but it sure is a relief when my partner steps up to help in tight situations and accepts responsibilities. I got a keeper and can't wait till she's ready to solo.
 
S

sandy beaches

typical

never ceases to amaze me how people still insist on dragging out archaic constructs. how about just letting people be people, letting everyone, male or female, make their own choices and be happy and grateful we are all here another day to enjoy life. get over it.
 
May 22, 2006
4
- - Orleans, MA
Franklin...

>...there was others who wrote something that got deleted. My guess is that they were females who objected to Jack's post. That makes a they. So you didn't actually read those responses? That's quite an assumption on your part then, no? >You also don't seem to understand the difference between equal and leaving them in the dust. No, I'm well aware of that difference which is why I made the distinction in the first place. I never said I agreed with the person who said we'd leave you in the dust (for the record, I don't - which is what I thought I was saying in my previous post, but it seems you need that spelled out), but I disagree that "There isn't ANYTHING a woman can do that a man can't do better on a boat." The only chip I have on my shoulder is towards those who display chauvinistic attitudes towards either gender. And since you need it all spelled out, I do think the "women will leave you all in the dust" comment was chauvinistic in the other direction, so I'm giving equal opportunity here. And totally unrelated but Larry, thank you for that link!
 
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