Sea(wo)manship

Moondancer · Aug 17, 2006

The real problem with women and sailing

Seriously, now, let's stop with the competitive stuff over who's got the bigger muscles, who's going to beat who, and how good a sailor 'your woman' is. We sail because we love to sail. If anyone of any gender makes it unpleasant for a sailing partner, they aren't going to want to do it. If they make it really unpleasant, well, has anyone here seen The Shipping News?I will admit to the biggest hurdle for more women to sail: the lack of attractive footwear. Really. The stuff is downright dorky. I've tried so many different styles and I tell ya, it's not pretty. These days I just wear my reef flipflops, but I just got a call from my daughter, who is studying before her first sailing class on Monday, because of her horror at having to wear boat shoes.If you watch the pleasantly silly movie Failure to Launch, you'll notice that our American Imelda, Sarah Jessica Parker, gets hooked on sailing and goes shopping for boat shoes. But they never actually show the shoes. Guess why? She probably wouldn't be caught dead being photographed in them. Oh, to have choices that didn't include leather-tie loafers or inadequate little sandals with nautical shackle accents!

BTW, Larry, thanks for the link!

KorculaChris · Aug 17, 2006

The REAL problem with women and sailing

is that so many women are not assertive enough and allow their overbearing beasts of male partners to over shadow them and boss them around. I have never yelled at my wife on land and would not consider doing so on a boat, either. There is a predominant view among many men that women have no aptitude for and can't do certain things.. like drive a big rig, sail or handle a boat, etc. This is macho BS. The only areas of, for want of a better word, inferiority are physical strength (equalized as we age!) and sometimes reach (women tending to be shorter). Otherwise, there is nothing a man can do that a woman can't, as far as sailing goes. The foremost frontier breakers in sailing today seem to be women (Ellen, Dee, et al.)Fair winds, and give 'em a break.

Ross · Aug 17, 2006

Moondancer, You are just as tall as I am

so I don't see any reason that you would be impaired in the world of boat handling. No body is tall enough , strong enough or smart enough to be able to do everything alone and without mechanical aids. Probably half of the women that I know are taller than I, most are at least as intelligent, many are guttsier than I, and I deferr to them in any situation when I think that they have better experience or knowledge. One woman that comes to mind has served in both wars that involved Iraq as a field grade officer. Do I know more about repairing a house? you bet. Does she know more about staying safe in a hostile situation you can bet your life on it. Is she a better shot than I? probably!

sailorgirl · Aug 17, 2006

boat shoes and strength

Whew...this site has taken off since I last responded. Shoes....a great suggestion is Keen shoes. I've got the lime green sandals. It's little known that they were developed for boating. They have black, non scuff bottoms, and if they get wet, putting them into the sun gets them back to their original condition. They're a little like the Granada (now on sale) sandals on the Annapolis web site that Larry suggested (thanks). I've also had boating sandals with "Air Deschiutz" on the bottom for 6 years, from West marine. And I found a cool pair of Sperrys on Mackinac Island that I've not seen before or since. So, you have to look. Yes, strength is a factor when doing some things on the boat, e.g. pulling a sail in faster, sometimes pulling up an anchor. And for me, doing things with my hands since I'm getting arthritis. But the most important thing is knowledge, boat handling, and thinking things through. I can't stress boat handling enough, and always challenging yourself. Sail off that mooring yourself, not using your engine. It's only by repetitively raising the bar on what you can do that gives you the confidence to do almost anything. Although I don't like to stereotype, I've wondered if there's a difference in single versus married sailors.

Moondancer · Aug 17, 2006

The helm, the shoes, and other things

I only wish (and I did ask) that they coulda made that guard available 6 inches shorter, so that I could get the instruments down a bit. My only complaint is that I can't sit and steer at all, I have to stand the whole time. Of course, that's in Barnegat Bay, where I'm playing chicken with the powerboats at all times. I wasn't sure about an autopilot when I ordered the boat, now I'm sure I'll get one within the next year. (It was a toss-up between that and air conditioning. The engineer made a huge case for that. And you know what? I thank him every time we sleep with it on, which this summer has been every night we've been down there.)I do have a pair of the Keens (purple!) and they are sooo comfortable, I've only been hesitant to wear those black soles on the boat, altho they are supposed to be non-marking boat soles. (New-boat owner: no black soles! no sitting on those ultraleather settees with all that Hawaiian Tropic on! Use coasters on that table! No red wine! A regular ... Captain Bligh... !)I do think that there is a difference between single sailors and couples. The couples are expected to do things together, and if one is gung-ho for sailing and the other isn't, it just isn't as much fun as a bunch of singles getting together because they all want to sail. I did think about the "sailing clubs" and such before making the huge commitment of a new cruising boat. My problem with them: I wanted to be in charge, I didn't want to have to work my way up from crew to skipper, and I didn't want to have to depend on finding crew to be able to go out.I was in West Marine in midtown the other day, and overheard a conversation between a salesman and a customer who looked to be in at least his 70s: the customer was saying he might have to sell his boat because he could never get anyone to go out with him. Happily the salesman gave him his card and said he'd love to go sailing with him anytime. It made me stop and appreciate having my husband around to sail with, and my two lovely rotten kids.

Stu Jackson · Aug 17, 2006

Katy Burke wrote a great book

called something like "Sailing for Non-Macho Sailors" which described how to use mechanical devices and NOT (ever) have to haul stuff with "man-handling" groans and efforts. Makes sense for folks of both sexes and reducing the amount of heavy work, and, in fact eliminating it almost altogether, goes a long, long way to making our sails, together, very much fun.

KorculaChris · Aug 17, 2006

Moondancer...

That stainless steel tubing can easily be shortened by 6" or more. It has to have the wiring pulled out, the tubing cut on both sides with the 6" removed, and slugs inserted to refasten to. Any local fabricating shop can do it, or you might be able to do it yourself using tubing that fits exactly inside the original with SS screws or even pop rivets.

Ross · Aug 17, 2006

There is an alternative to shortening the

pedistal guard. For all of my life I have been too short to reach the top shelf any where. so I find things to stand on. Moondancer a couple of throwable cushions would probably allow you to see and sit while at the helm. The genius that disigned my Islander made all of the seating such that nobody could see over the deck while sitting, I corrected that!

Moondancer · Aug 18, 2006

Pedestal height

Chris & Ross, thanks for the ideas on the pedestal. I could also swear I've seen someplace a "high chair" that could be put behind the helm, I'm researching the possibilities. One thing I do for a change of position (and when the bimini is folded up) is stand on the stern seats. The wheel is so big that it's reachable even from up there (I have a folding wheel) altho I wouldn't do that in rough water. Maybe I'll mount a periscope on it...So one of the very nice older guys at the marina came over to admire the new boat, and took to quizzing our girls on naming parts of the boat. He asks the college student what color the port light is. I feel confident she'll get this right, I had long ago given her the memory aid that port (wine) is red. She gets all excited cause she knows the answer, and bursts out, "Merlot!"

Anchor Down · Aug 21, 2006

No Glass Ceiling

I'm confused: who, specifically, is holding women down and preventing them from sailing? Can't women sail if they want to? Historically speaking, women have never had more money to spend on the sport, or more role models to follow, from solo racers like Ellen McArthur, to cruising gurus like Beth Leonard, to circumnavigators like Tania Abei. I just don't see any "glass ceiling," except maybe if you want to become an officer of a yacht club. But those positions are largely ceremonial, and those clubs could be sued successfully in a heartbeat if they tried to turn female applicants away. So that's not stopping women.Men's surprise at women handling their own boats doesn't prevent them.Magazines survive because they target a known demographic that is large enough and has enough disposable income to keep them in business. Advertisers do the same. Cruising World publishes Beth Leonard and Lin Pardey articles regularly, but even if the number of women skippers triples overnight, a major magazine is not going to make a habit of putting a woman behind the wheel on their glossy cover and risk alienating the remaining 90% of their male customers. They aren't tools of social justice: they are businesses that follow the laws of economics and human behavior. The magazines aren't stopping women. Any "hostile environment" they are supposedly perpetuating is a bogeyman. And if the lack of women skippers in magazines is going to stop you, you're really not ready for the snorts and rolled eyes from the customs officials in France.Last weekend I was moored at Two Harbors at the isthmus of Catalina Island. A Newport 33 (I think) came in crewed by four twenty-something women. Must have been a 12,000lb. boat. Everyone smiled and waved as they motored to the dock in their inflatable. Hardly enough to raise an eyebrow anymore. So social disapproval from traditionalists has never been weaker. That's not stopping women (well, the inhibited ones, maybe, but they don't want the responsibility anyway: certainly not women like you or them).The doors are open, the playing field has been leveled, the required math for celestial navigation has been eliminated, and the mainsail furlers and electric windlasses have been installed. The number of women sailors will rise a bit, but they will never make up more than a small fraction of sailors, not because of any external social factors, but because of the basic differences in physical strength & endurance and psychological differences between the two sexes that make men and women so exasperatingly complimentary. Viva la différance! More men will want to sail than women will want to sail. So lets just let men be men, and women be women, and let them do what they want, whether it's taking in a reef, or buying pretty shoes.Fair Winds & Functioning Blow Dryers to All,Jeff

Franklin · Aug 22, 2006

Once again, I agree with Anchor Down

I'm making this a habit

I must have taken 20 different women out (looking for the special girl to cruise with) for a sail in the past two years. I always ask them politely to take the helm to see if they are the type who can do stuff and many refuse. Some I've taken out have asked if there was anything they could do when I'm docking or raising the sails, but I would say the majority are there for the time in the sun and that's it.I wish it were different; it would make my search for a cruising woman much easier, but it's not.

Moondancer · Aug 22, 2006

Up helms(wo)man!

Franklin, purely speculation on my part, but I wonder if any of these women felt the same about taking the helm on your boat as I did attempting to learn to drive shift on my Dad's extremely meticulously maintained car. I was afraid I'd wreck something, so it never did work out. (And if God wanted me to shift, hydromatic-systematic-automatic wouldn't have been invented.)The inclination to do any sports is something encouraged from a young age, and the emphasis on women in any sports as a springboard to a college scholarship or even professional sports is severely lacking. It isn't just the schools, it's cultural. When I grew up in Brooklyn I was surprised to see girls playing basketball in high school (all-girls Catholic school). I tried out, was pathetic, and that was the end of it. And here in the suburbs, I am one of the bad moms who hasn't tossed my daughters into some kind of team sport. It keeps our weekends free. No one is stopping a woman from taking lessons, renting or buying a boat, and making all the same mistakes guys at the marina make as skills are honed. You just have to be a bit tough about it. (Like having snappy replies ready for comments like Lori T got on the "divorce") I was particularly infuriated reading a new article in Boatworks magazine about how a woman handled the "boys club" at a boat yard. Bottom line: she shrank like a mouse and ran away. What a fool. Totally useless article.I was beginning to get the impression that my older daughter was only interested in tanning on deck, but she finally was interested in taking a basic sailing class. She was reading her textbook the other day, and suddenly I get, "Hey, Mom! How come we never heave-to??" This is going to be interesting... Of course, I'm already seriously jealous of her, because she attends J&W in Providence, and she'll be able to sail in Newport whenever she's out of class. Sailor's heaven.Still trying to get up higher on the helm ... new issue of Mainsheet, and here's that helmseat I didn't take much notice of before the 320 arrived. Has anyone tried one of these, liked/disliked them?http://www.helmseat.com/

Ross · Aug 22, 2006

There is an article in this mornings

Baltimore Sun That says much about this subject. When the woman featured in the story was 10 they had a neighbor that would invite her dad and brother to go fishing but she was excluded even though she was a capable fisher. She is a self confessed "tomboy" and now owns and skippers her own charter boat. NO thanks to the men in her life.

Moondancer · Aug 22, 2006

No Glass Ceiling

Anchor Down, I'd like to say about your mention "those clubs could be sued successfully in a heartbeat if they tried to turn female applicants away" that while that is possibly true (I'm not sure how legal it really is to sue a private club for access. Note the Masters Golf Tournament), I don't know anyone that would be enthusiastic about being a member of a club you'd have to sue to join. Think how comfortable and welcoming that atmosphere would be. Yes, I can sail my boat if I darn well please, but I would like to be welcomed into a club. (And if I'm not welcome, don't ask where all the women sailors are, for pete's sake... )Also "putting a woman behind the wheel on their glossy cover and risk alienating the remaining 90% of their male customers." I'm just curious, would male customers really not buy a sailing magazine because the photo had a woman at the helm? (Or would it just be if she was dressed? ; ) )When I was Assistant Art Director at a computer trade magazine in the 80s, I remember some heated discussions concerning our cover shoots. Even though we were not a newsstand publication, the editor was concerned that if we used a black, asian, latino, or female model, we were "saying something" and that it would be construed as editorializing. It was inconceivable at the time that the reader would think nothing of the racial or gender makeup of a person standing next to a fabulous new mainframe. I was so disappointed that it was a female editor that put forth this view.Is this really where it's at in 21st century publishing? I thought it was only when, heaven-forbid, someone appeared on a boating magazine cover without a pfd on that there would be a general gnashing of teeth and wringing of hands. If the image of a woman steering a boat would be offensive to most men, we have quite a problem here, in my opinion.

Anchor Down · Aug 22, 2006

Moonie

You're quite right about a private organization being able to do what it wants (as I've said about the Boy Scouts all along). I typed before I thought there. Still, it's of little importance, I think: do any actually exclude women? Don't know, but I'd be surprised to learn if any did, and they're not gate-keepers to yachting access anyway. One can get on fine without a club. I think we both agree on that.Magazines: ah, seems to me you're trying to put a social conscience into a strictly business venture, and I don't think it will fit. Magazines aimed at niche demographics are by and large nervous companies and are not about to take a chance on alienating their bread-and-butter customers. No one said anything about being "offended." (Oh, Lord, that word has such Politically Correct trappings, and I so did not want to go there) I'm suggesting a more subtle psychological effect on predominantly male purchasers (subscribers, less so: they aren't making impulse decisions standing at the rack). The reality (and I think your anecdote illustrates it well) is the magazine editors' PERCEPTION of cause and effect. That relationship might not actually obtain in the real world, but the publisher's fear that it might will dominate his decision-making. Shrug.As far as male psychology, you'd be surprised at how easily we interpret seemingly innocent actions as threats to our leadership. That' part of the male makeup, by and large, and it ain't gonna change anytime soon. As the boating demo. changes, attitudes will change, and then the content/covers of the mags will follow. They won't lead.I like your posts: they are thoughtful and provocative. And by the way, that little princess helmsman's chair might just be the ticket for you<g>.Melissa: an equal partnership (whatever one perceives that to mean) may be your ideal, but it's not everyone's, and I'll bet you'd find a lot of women who are happy to let the man lead. Again, I say let them work out whatever arrangement is satisfactory to both. I do agree that women hold themselves back unnecessarily in places, but I believe they are more submissive by nature, by and large, than men are, so that makes perfect sense.Here's to More Skippers in Really Cute Shoes and color-coordinated foul weather gear,Jeff

Moondancer · Aug 23, 2006

Moonie?! Nooooooo....

Jeff, I enjoyed your post. And I happened to come across a very encouraging article in the Times today that I'll post the link to here. Especially fun as it is Toms River, site of my first day's sail in Barnegat Bay, and first $350 towing bill (stupid of me to go out of the marked channel to avoid the little kid in the sabot, it would have been so much more economical to just rescue him after the crash.)I hope any guys here who ordered that helm seat are also wearing their princess tiaras at the helm.

The chair might not work for us, as it turns out the Catalina 320 doesn't much room behind the wheel and they have to make the seat tinier to fit, and we don't want to crowd the ladder area with hardware. I'm thinking inverted rum crate to stand on. It would go with my lovely leather pirate hat, if not my shoes... and as far as the idea that women's 'innocent' appearances at the helm on a magazine cover may be perceived as a threat to male leadership, well, I'll raise my glass to that!Susan

windrose24500 · Aug 23, 2006

woman and sailing

I am a 51 year old single woman that started sailing 6 years ago and can't imagine my life without it. I am on my 2nd boat that I alone own,, a 28.5 Hunter. Two years ago I began crewing on a another boat during racing at a local sailing club. What a great way to learn more.Last week I actually raced my own boat for the first time. There are several others around that crew on their husbands or family boat, but I am the only owner, captain that I know of.It is a lot of work for a woman alone,,but my fellow nsailors at the marina are usually more than willling to lend a helping hand when needed or give mem advice.

Warren Milberg · Aug 24, 2006

For Windrose....

Glad to have you aboard. You may want to check out the H28.5 Group website at the link below. You've got a great boat....