Scared of heeling...help?

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Oday28

Sailing is not necessarily a new venture, but a traumatic experience on one of my first sailing outings has got me scared of my "dream." I'm betting there are others who have had a similar experience or know someone who has and can offer some thoughts, ideas or consolations. My dream is to be a live-aboard for 5 years and to summer in Maine and/or Nova Scotia and winter in the Carribean. Toward that end, the family and I are working on our sailing skills on our new boat. The spouse and I have taken a 4-day basic keelboat class and are trying to get out on it regularly with other real sailers. Here's the problem. My first venture sailing was about 14 years ago. A Hobie Cat 16. Not the right boat to learn to sail, but it's what was at-hand. A friend, Paul, who "knew how to sail" took me out one March day to a local fresh water lake. No wind to speak of, so we just tootled around for a bit. After a while, the wind picked up, so off we went. On the far side of the lake, we noticed the skies darkening and all the other boats had vanished. Picking up on the obvious clues, we started back. Then, the big wind hit. My friend told me that this was the right kind of wind to fly on one hull, so close hauled we go. Just as we are beginning to fly a hull, a big gust of wind comes along and slams us upside down. Now, this is March, and the water is pretty damned cold. Keeping panic at bay, we get her righted again. Paul says he pulled the rudder instead of pushing it, and wouldn't make that mistake again. Thoroughly soaked and a little spooked, off we went again. Sure enough, same mistake was made, and he completely turtled her. Really wet and seriously cold, we didn't have the strength to right her in the wind. By good fortune, a passing motorboat saw we were in trouble and help right us. Once righted, Paul is ordered to the front of the boat, and I'm on the tiller and headed home WITHOUT coming anywhere near a close point of sail. Several years have passed, but now I have this panicky response to a significant amount of wind and am really on edge when we get on any point of sail closer than a beam reach. The creaking and the groaning of the boat...the heeling...the surge of power when the wind really gets into the sails, etc. I feel like a panic-attack is coming, and I really dread close-hauling. Honestly, this would seem to intrude on the dream, but it doesn't. But getting on the boat, I get really edgy. When the wind picks up, I get rather nervous. And when a closer point of sail is called for, I am beyond cautious and not enjoying myself much at all. Other people call it fun, but I just don't have any confidence in what I'm doing on a close point of sail. I've been thinking I can just keep training my way through it and get used to it. I've even considered therapy. Has anyone had a similar experience and offer some advise? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.
 
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John Andre

Heel to heal!

Heeling is why I thought we went on these stinkin' boats. I suggest a good couple of nights reading First You Have To Row A Little Boat: Reflections On Life & Living by Richard Bode. Read it. Row yourself a little boat. Then Heal, Baby, Heel!
 
Jul 22, 2005
77
Hunter 26 New Hill, NC
keels and reefs

I had the same sort of experience only on a Laser. What I have been told has reassured me and allowed me to go forward with sailing. This is some of the info I've been given: First off, keel boats are pretty damn hard to capsize because of their ballast. If you get knocked down she'll right herself, although you may have to cut the rigging in the worst case. Secondly, if you think, "Man I've got to reef" you're probably too late! Whenever you're getting into strong wind, ease the sheets. Throw a reef in if your uncertain as to what to expect. You can always take a reef out. Lastly, you know where your comfort level is, don't push it. You'll probably be taken past your comfort level by the surprize gust and learn that your boat can do more than you think. Until you get to a point where you have a solid understanding of how she handles strong wind, sail safely and take it slow. From what I understand, there are no prizes for greatest degree of heel.;) BTW, did I mention that I'm pretty new at this too? The rest of you sailors, let me know if I'm off target here. Dave D
 
Jul 17, 2005
586
Hunter 37.5 Bainbridge Island - West of Seattle
Your friend Paul was not nice, and a poor sailor

I think your friend probably has sailed a few times, but was not very good at it. Flying on one hull is not something you want to do while taking a new sailor out, especially during the winter. It may be fun during the summer or in the tropics. I think he was just trying to show off. It is ok for a displacement sail boat to heel. It it is heeling too much, more than 15 degrees, then it is time to shorten your sail. With your sails reefed, you can go just as fast, in fact often faster, and more comfortable to boot. Unlike a Hobie Cat or a laser, it will take some real effort to turtle your boat. Your sails will spill the air first. To have the boat heeled over 15-20 degrees may look neat to other people, but not everyone enjoys riding in it.
 
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gary

I Too.

share the same fear but have gradually acclimated. Sail conservatively by keeping reefed on the main and as you get used to the righting ability and stability you get "one" with your boat and know what she can hanmdle and what she can't. Even when she gets hit by a blast you'll find she'll come right back up from a heel that you wouldn't on a cat. Your boat really wants to come up from a 50 degree heel where a cat really wants to capsize. From my experience, tour confidence grows the more you sail your boat and your fear dimenishes and pretty soon you actually look to have fun when the wind gets up so you can really power up. It just takes time and experience. f
 
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Rick

Scared of heeling

You don't mention the size and type of sailboat you have. That might help in advising you. In any case it is quite normal to be edgy when it is blowing very hard. In fact there is some part of that caution that acts as a safety net. From your description, you might be experiencing a phobia, where you have a anxiety level out of proportion to your actual envirionment and experience of the moment. A phobia is characterized as an irrational fear. That being said, there is nothing wrong with anxiety when a squall front is moving toward you. Here are some concrete suggestions that might help; Develop a good skill set. knowing when and how to reef (nothing wrong with reefing early), sail trim (flatten the main and jib, dropping the traveler, and pinching, for example), I have often gone from a hectic chaotic sail to an unstressed comfortable ride by reefing the main and taking a few turns of the jib on the roller furler. Sail a few times with someone who is comfortable skilled and confident when the wind pipes up. Preferably on your boat. They can help you understand how your boat handles, and can ease your anxiety about sailing to weather. If you are sailing a keel boat, or a larger 23' up centerboard boat then it will take a whole lot of wind to replicate the situation you had on the catamaran. If you sail a lighter centerboard boat, then you can, of course, capsize. Just make sure that you understand how to right your boat (another skill set). Sail alot, as much as you can. It is okay to admit to yourself that you need experience to de-sensitize yourself to your anxiety. You didn't mention sailing in low visibility (my most bothersome time when it comes to anxiety)Again, strong skills help alot. Take a coastal navigation course offered by ASA or other organizations, and learn to plot a DR course along with knowing what you are doing with GPS and radio comms helps here. You can reduce your anxiety when you know what to do in various situations. I hope this helps. I find a boisterous sail very fun. In case you were wondering, I too had a traumatic experience on a blue water cruise in a 40 odd foot sloop. Horrible storm and all. It took me some time to recover from that. I wish this post site had a spell checker...
 
May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
As Rick said

"Sail a few times with someone who is comfortable skilled and confident when the wind pipes up. Preferably on your boat. They can help you understand how your boat handles, and can ease your anxiety about sailing to weather." I think a smiling face on your boat will speed you through your concerns.
 
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Timm R

I too have been there

The first time I sailed my Catalina 22 by myself I got hit with gust of 35 knots.Three foot waves.Windows in the water.I was scared.I dropped sails and motored.The first time I took this boat out onto Lake Michigan,same thing.Now the out board doesn't start.Then the main sail shredded.I furled the jib almost all the way .I got knocked down 6 or 7 times before the main ripped.The boat always headed up.Easing the sheets helps alot.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,161
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
the cure is to

Take more lessons and get out there. The very best advice I can give you is to learn to sail on a dinghy, or any small boat, that doesn't have a heavy keel. Understanding the forces that cause the boat to heel and how to balance the boat's rig to counteract those forces is what sailing is all about. Learning and experiencing small boat sailing will give you a wealth of confidence that carries over to the larger, fixed keel vessels. Forget the Hobie fiasco, that's happened to everyone. All the guy had to do was release the main and turn downwind to keep the air out from under the trampoline. If he had had any lessons at all he would have known that. But you can look back now and see what he did wrong so you learn from it. Use that experience to motivate you. You have a great dream so get cracken', Oday 28.
 
Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
Knock Downs

Assuming you are aboard the O'Day 28, you probably have 7000 lbs of boat with 3000 lbs or so of keel suspended under the hull. When someone new comes aboard my 28.5 and I sense some uneasyness, I try to point out that the 3000+ lbs of cast iron keel (slightly lighter than my Pontiac)is there to keep things upright. Obviously, it's no catamaran and you just need to get a little more experience, as others here have said. Don't wory so much about sailing close hauled; perhaps you should give more focus to the total sail area 'up' for a given wind condition. I'm totally convinced that if somehow I were to be totally surprised by some kind of unforseen 'microburst' wind gust, my boat would round up hard with sails flogging; maybe heel beyond 40 degrees to a near knockdown; and maybe tear up the sails; but I just can't picture a capsize. Does anyone have any capsize stories with keel boats this size?
 

Sherry

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Jun 1, 2005
212
Hunter 30 Pickwick Lake, TN River
consider your boat

Many years ago I (a monohull sailor) went out on an 18' catamaran. I was on the wire, flying a hull, and we buried a lee hull and did some combo of a pitchpole/capsize. The back of my head bounced off the mast. I did eventually get back out on the wire again, but it was (and would be today) a very shaky experience. But, as others have said, sailing on your O'Day 28, you are sailing on a completely different boat that does NOT share the same tendencies the Hobie has. I second the notion to take someone with you who is very experienced and comfortable with bigger boats and really put your boat thru her paces going to weather and heeling. You will be surprised at how forgiving she really is. By testing her (and your) limits, you will gain comfort in handling the boat under more moderate circumstances. Good luck!
 
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Oday28

Scared of heeling...great information

Wow! Great information from you all, and I appreciate all of the responses. Sounds like the mantra is Practice, Practice, Practice...and to remember that I can keep things under control as I build my/our skill set. We own an Oday 28 (hence the Screen name) with a full keel. Anybody else?
 
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Bob

Physics

Something to keep in mind is that your keel boat is completely different from that catamaran in its reaction to heeling. What is making the boat heel is the force of the wind across the sails. What is resisting that force is the shape of the hull and the heavy mass of the keel as it is literally lifted up to the windward side as the boat itself begins to lay over. The farther the boat heels, the less sail area it presents to the wind, which is blowing horizontally, parallel to the surface of the water. You can use trigonometry to calculate this reduction, but basically at a 45 degree angle of heel you are presenting only about 70% of the original sail area to the wind. At 60 degrees, only half the sail area is presented. And at these angles, the keel is trying to return to vertical. The farther the boat heels, the greater is the vector of the keel's righting force. So it takes a mighty blast indeed to lay a boat over flat. I won't say it can't happen - I've had a spreader tip in the water myself. But the boat popped right back up.
 
Jun 3, 2004
109
Oday 40 New Bern
Healing the heal fear factor

Having owned an O28 for four years, I can tell you that I have scared myself more than once, but the BOAT was fine. I agree with everything that has been said-reef early, especially because the admiral doesn't like "tippy", although she has learned that discomfort does not neccessarily mean unsafe, and practice, practice, practice. First time out, the engine quit. Second time, the jib wouldn't come down. One learns. Bringing our O40 back to CT from Annapolis, I had my wife pinned in the galley on a brisk stbd tack until I hove to, but the boat was fine. And anything over 15 degrees is pretty much showing off, at least if the bottom is clean. You have a great boat, solid and forgiving. Have fun!
 
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Shawnda

Catalina 22 Swing Keel

I learned a lot about sailing on a 38ft sailboat and always felt safe no matter how far we heeled. This summer I bought a Catalina 22 with a swing keel. Let me tell you, I was pretty scared when we heeled over far in that. Fun on the big boat but scary on the little. Since then, I have become used to the feeling on the 22. Always easier when there is more weight on board and can send everyone to the high side. How often do these boats gets knocked down and under what circumstances?
 
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Rich

Take the cat on again

I would try to find a hobie 16 and face that fear...As many have already said, most monohulls are made to heel with no problem, but you missed out on a great and skill building experience with the cat. In learning to sail a small boat you get a very good feel of the wind and boat. Your friend simply should never have let the mainsail rope cleat, esp. in big wind with gusts, and he should have been on the lookout for the "dark water" of big gusts. You can either feather up into the wind when hit by a gust or let your mainsail out. I learned to sail on a hobie...when the winds are up to 15-20 mph there is (to me) nothing better! When you have that hull flying up and your riding the edge it's a sweet feeling. Small boats seem to let you be more "intimate" with the wind. Having learned on a smaller boat has helped me be a better sailor on a bigger boat. Plus you will have redeeemd yourself and faced your (unwarrented and induced by anothers incompetance)fear. Rich
 
Jul 26, 2005
9
Catalina 22 Lake Maumelle
Catalina 22 Swing Keel Heeling

Shawnda, There is a great thread on that issue on the Catalina Direct clubhouse in the "Cruising Issues - Boat Stability" thread. I felt much more comfortable after reading that thread. John
 
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Neal

Triangle sails / spinnaker

Ever wonder why most sails are triangles? Bobs physics was right except his values are for a square sail, a triangler sail the values fall off exponitially faster. Sails with a large roach, ie the hobies do not bleed off power as fast. As for capsizing this size of boat, the easiest fastest way is to fly a sym spinnaker. It will not depower until the mast tip is in the water.
 
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Bob

Stickin' by my numbers

My description was, admittedly, a simplification of what is actually a somewhat more complicated situation - as the boat heels, lower parts of the sails can be blanketed by the wind; the wind is generally not as strong closer to the surface of the water; etc. But the fact remains that the area of any surface, when leaned over, has a vertical component that is the cosine of the angle of lean times the original value when it was plumb. That means that a rectangle, square, triangle, ellipse, or whatever shape you want will still present approximately the values I stated. The relationship is NOT exponential. We are talking about keel boats here - a Hobie, or any other cat, presents a whole new set of parameters: flying hull blanketing the sails, wind getting UNDER the boat, etc. A keel boat does not have much resistance to heeling at, say, 10 degrees but when heeled to 50 or 60 degrees in an extreme blast it has a very strong righting moment and and strongly resists going over any further. The catamaran, on the other hand, has its center of gravity a long distance away from its center of buoyancy, and is very stable at low angles of heel. However, as one hull raises and rotates above the other, the c.g. moves closer to being directly above the c.b. and it doesn't take much to push/pull it the rest of the way and cause a capsize.
 
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tom habanek

This sounds familiar

When I first went out on my 37'er, I took several seasoned sailors with me. We had all the sails up (cutter rigged) and were healing so much that the rail was under water. In other words, we were walking on the walls! Boy was I scared. But then, we arrived home OK. Last year I sailed on a 43' Palmer Johnson and we got caught with all sails up, in 30 knot winds, and we never healed as much as on my boat. It was very cool. Yesterday we went out in Lake Erie in 6-8 footers with 20 knot winds and I only put up the main and staysail and we healed, but not enogh to make it scary or uncomfortable. In other words, i now know what to expect and don't panic. I replaced my fixed ports with clear acrylic and when you heal and go below, you are at water level on one side. The view is awesome, but if the freeboard was really this low, I think I would panic. On my 37, I feel safe. On a monohull, the chances of flipping are slim if one has a heavy keel. And you can reef the sails to sail comfortably, till you get up the skills and nerve to test your mettle and put up more sails to heal more. However, it is not necessary, so why do it?
 
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