San Pedro to Two Harbors in a 19' Mariner

[JackOlsen]

This “isthmus fan”, as it is fondly called, seems to kick in about one n.mi. or two from Cove entrance. If you cannot sail into the harbor one “trick” is to bear away until reaching the sheltered lee of the island, and then motor up to the Cove.

Thanks. The trick would be to come in farther east of the harbor and then motor along the coastline?

Forgive, but watching newbies trying to pick up a mooring in that wind is often the cocktail hr “entertainment.”

And while I will definitely be an entertaining novice moorer, which I'm fine with, could you (or anyone) suggest a mooring number that would be better suited to a 19' boat with a novice at the helm? I have to sign up for one later tonight.

 

[LakeShark]

In your small boat they will likely put you n the string line close to shore. The other moorings are going to be rigged for boats much larger than yours.

 

[Alan Gomes]

In your small boat they will likely put you n the string line close to shore. The other moorings are going to be rigged for boats much larger than yours.

While they may well put him on the string line he could tie up to any of the other moorings just fine, even if they are rigged for larger boats. He simply would leave more slack in the sandline. Some of the larger moorings are more expensive, though, and they also typically will reserve those for the larger boats who can't be accommodated by a mooring that's too small.

The east string line shown in the chart would be just fine. J-row would also work well. On the west side of the pier, where you'll get more shelter, R and A rows would be just great, especially closer to the cliffs.

 

[Richard19068]

And while I will definitely be an entertaining novice moorer, which I'm fine with, could you (or anyone) suggest a mooring number that would be better suited to a 19' boat with a novice at the helm? I have to sign up for one later tonight.

View attachment 196877

Unless the system has changed, or is different for the string line vs moorings, tonight you would have to sign up for this weekend August 6, 7 and/or 8. You said you were sailing on August 12 which is next Thursday. You cannot make reservations until after 8:00 PM on the Thursday immediately preceeding the Friday, Saturday and/or Sunday you want to stay. Either way, if you are sailing on Thursday you will get there on Thursday before 8:00 PM and check in so you will not need a reservation.
You might want to call the harbor department to confirm this.

The west side of the cove is generally more protected from the wind.
If on the string line I would try to get a tie that is on the outside half of the line so the bow if facing into the prevailing wind (that is, facing the beach). Others might have a different opinion though because that will put the stern facing any incoming swell.

 

[jeepbluetj]

LakeShark is correct - you'll be put on the string line. The next smallest are J or R row (~30 ft), but I've only ever seen 20's on the string line. You may end up paying for a larger mooring than 19' if you end up on a bigger one.

In general, you'll almost always find one on Thursday, except for holidays or Buccaneer Days. Based on your "gotta sign up" I think you're looking to reserve. I have no idea how to reserve the string line.

Isthmus is ch 9, not 16. The procedure used to be sail up to the entrance and wait for a boat to give you a mooring. Last few times it's all been by radio for us and everybody else we were listening to. Tune in to 9 a few miles out and you'll get the gist of it. The very last time we _did_ have a reservation, and I just told them what it was and they said have at it.

Thx for the weather sites, a few had better renders than what I usually use.

 

[JackOlsen]

I emailed them about the string line. If I don't hear back, I'll call. I've planned to reserve a space, out of caution.

If the bow/stern hawsers are too thick for my cleats, what's the best way to secure them? I assume the string line would have smaller loops, and that's where they'll probably put me.

 

[jeepbluetj]

Any kind of bridle you can rig with a line, pay attention to chafe - the mooring lines are rough nylon. The slime line (spreader line) can be used also, and it's often used on the rears if the boat is smaller than the mooring is set for. The slime line has weights on it, so you have to make sure it doesn't rub the boat.

String line definitely fits into fishing boats in the 20' range, so it'll work for you.

 

[JackOlsen]

Thanks, everyone.

From the horse's mouth:

"Hello Jack,
Reservation can only be made online or upon arrival via VHF channel #9.
If you are looking to arrive on Thursday 8/12, you would essentially beat out the online reservations and we would assign you to a stringline space upon arrival.
The stringline has had plenty of availability on this season, so you should be good getting an assignment upon arrival.
See you here soon."

I'm reading that to mean I do not need to make a reservation when the page for that goes live tonight.

 

[LakeShark]

While they may well put him on the string line he could tie up to any of the other moorings just fine, even if they are rigged for larger boats. He simply would leave more slack in the sandline. Some of the larger moorings are more expensive, though, and they also typically will reserve those for the larger boats who can't be accommodated by a mooring that's too small.

while this is true harbor patrol likes to reserve the larger moorings for appropriate sized boats. Vessel’s that are too short typically pull too hard on the string line damaging their boat or causing undue strain on the mooring. Remember many of the moorings are privately owned and owners expect their mooring in good condition when they come to use them. The Catalina Island Company leases the moorings and charges for them.

@JackOlsen For a 19 foot sailboat with a swing keel over a weekend they will want you on the string line. Learn to tie a hitch on the string line Incase the lines are too big for your cleats or ask the harbor patrol to help you tie off. They will let you try first but come help if needed as soon as they are freed up. Weekends can be busy but you’ll like the string line. You can hear the music from shore and get a front row seat to the entertainment that is the dingy dock.

I lived and worked on the island for the Catalina Island Company many years back and while a lot has changed I am guessing that string line room is almost always available and not reservable. Most of the time the larger moorings need a reservation within the isthmus cove but there are always a few first come first serve moorings.
If all else fails ask if you can just pull up your keel and beach the boat near the camp ground. If you don’t mind pulling the boat up the beach a bit it makes for a good landing as well. We used to have a group of Hobie cats come and beech / camp on the shore every year.

Enjoy the trip. Your already doing more planning to an most. Sounds like you have a good float plan so don’t sweat the small stuff.

 

[jeepbluetj]

One thing the fisherfolk that often tie off to the string line do is swim ashore. It's not very far, and nobody brings a dink on 20' whaler.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Vessel’s that are too short typically pull too hard on the string line damaging their boat or causing undue strain on the mooring.

I disagree. Sure, if one pulls the spreader line too tight, one could theoretically pull out a cleat if there are significant tidal changes. But that's why you shouldn't overtighten the spreader line--no matter what mooring one is on. (I saw that happen at the Isthmus one time. It was a Catalina 30. The conditions were very rolly, if I remember it right, and he ripped out the cleat because he had tightened the heck out of his stern connection. Had nothing to do with being on an oversized mooring, however.) And then, there is no way his little 19 footer is going to even come close to stressing one of those moorings. Not even close.

That said, they are likely going to put him on the string line, as they are going to reserve the large moorings for boats who really need them, and it would make no sense for him to pay a bunch of money for a mooring size that he doesn't need--and that is also farther from the beach. No upside to it and only unnecessary expense.

 

[LakeShark]

I disagree. Sure, if one pulls the spreader line too tight, one could theoretically pull out a cleat if there are significant tidal changes. But that's why you shouldn't overtighten the spreader line--no matter what mooring one is on. (I saw that happen at the Isthmus one time. It was a Catalina 30. The conditions were very rolly, if I remember it right, and he ripped out the cleat because he had tightened the heck out of his stern connection. Had nothing to do with being on an oversized mooring, however.) And then, there is no way his little 19 footer is going to even come close to stressing one of those moorings.

I think we are saying the same thing. It’s not that he will break a mooring but a new person to the island often ties to tight to a mooring causing undue chafing on the line or damage to the individual boat.

I’m my time there I have seen a 30 foot boat move the weights on the bottom from being to tight. And a motor yacht actually drive off bragging the weights off the shelf because they forgot to disconnect the stern line. Often the constant pumping can lift the weights in the sand when boaters feel they must go loop to loop on a oversized mooring. This moves the weights closer and effectively shrinks the mooring.

It’s also why those that work on the King Fisher can splice the poly line with their eyes closed behind their backs in minutes. It happens more often than people know about (like every weekend). Don’t believe me stay till Wednesday and watch the mooring rig move through the mooring fields repairing lines damaged by boaters. Trust me they don’t keep that big rig on the isthmus side because they have an abundance of mooring space. It take up prime mooring space because it’s needed so often. In the winter it’s back over to Cat harbor.

Either way it’s a moot point as the OP has his plan in place and I am sure will leave with great memories

 

[Alan Gomes]

I think we are saying the same thing. It’s not that he will break a mooring but a new person to the island often ties to tight to a mooring causing undue chafing on the line or damage to the individual boat.

I’m my time there I have seen a 30 foot boat move the weights on the bottom from being to tight. And a motor yacht actually drive off bragging the weights off the shelf because they forgot to disconnect the stern line. Often the constant pumping can lift the weights in the sand when boaters feel they must go loop to loop on a oversized mooring. This moves the weights closer and effectively shrinks the mooring.

It’s also why those that work on the King Fisher can splice the poly line with their eyes closed behind their backs in minutes. It happens more often than people know about (like every weekend). Don’t believe me stay till Wednesday and watch the mooring rig move through the mooring fields repairing lines damaged by boaters. Trust me they don’t keep that big rig on the isthmus side because they have an abundance of mooring space. It take up prime mooring space because it’s needed so often. In the winter it’s back over to Cat harbor.

Either way it’s a moot point as the OP has his plan in place and I am sure will leave with great memories

Fair enough. Overtightening the spreader line does indeed happen a great deal by those who aren't experienced with how the moorings work. But it's quite typical to put a boat on a mooring that falls at least somewhat short of the stern hawser. My 26 footer is pretty much always assigned to a mooring that requires me to tie off to the spreader line, such as a 40' mooring. I never, ever crank on the spreader line.

And yep, you're 100% right that it's not at all uncommon for boats to take the mooring weights for a ride. I'd be hard pressed to imagine conditions in which the OP's little 19 foot daysailer would do it, but it happens all the time. In fact, I was in Cat Harbor on January 19th of this year when a Santa Ana blew through. I was just fine on my mooring (H-1), but a large catamaran way out on N-row dragged the stern weight on his mooring, was broadside to the wind, and claimed he was 50' from a boat downwind of him! (It was dark and gusting to 45 knots while I was monitoring all of this on the VHF). Fortunately, it stopped dragging, for whatever reason, and I don't believe anything came of it, other than the need to reset the mooring.

Yeah, I see the King Fisher there all the time. I typically avoid going over there in the summer and so I'm there very, very often in the off season. (Much better mooring rates that way, also!) That's when they do a good deal of their major mooring renovation work. I've had quite a few trips where King Fisher and I are the only boats in Fourth of July or Cherry Cove!

 

[JackOlsen]

Well, the forecast still looks all right. For sailing out of King Harbor, I'd like to see the wind at 235°.

Windfinder.com is suggesting it will be in that neighborhood.

Today we did our last prep run. I didn't want Thursday morning to be my first experience with the hoist they use in Redondo. Stepping the mast without the electric winch I usually use -- while bobbing on the water -- was also something I didn't want to fumble through for the first time on a day like that. Here's the boat up and on its way over the fence.

 

[jeepbluetj]

Ahh. Memories. Learned to sail out of King Harbor on a Columbia 5.5. And yes, we sailed the 5.5 to Catalina (dumb dumb dumb... one swamp and that thing was at the bottom. But we had a great time.)

Looking pretty much due out of the west most of the day Thurs. Not much till 1pm or so. (i.e. standard typical summer socal wind)

How was the mast stepping? How was the retrieval? Those of us without trailerable boats wanna know.

 

[JackOlsen]

This was the first time we'd stepped the mast on the water. When I got the boat, I worked out a gin pole system with an electric winch on the trailer. It worked well enough that I've never had to manually push the thing up while someone else has to scramble around to secure the forestay.

This time, I adapted the same system to work with one of the boat's winches. But my fear was that I'd lose the pin for the forestay while trying to secure it -- and have it NOT fall down into the parking lot where I could find it, but into King Harbor, where it would rest for all eternity. So I had a spare pin on hand (clipped to the forestay), which -- or course -- meant I did NOT drop the pin. When you're prepared for a problem, that's not the problem that happens.

There was some running back and forth to the car in the parking lot, but we got it done and got the boat launched. In this flip, you can see the boat getting hoisted into the water (it's actually getting hoisted OUT, but I've reversed the footage).

We also ran our genoa for the first time, since the wind was fairly light -- as it's also forecast to be on Thursday.

All in all, it went well. The hoisting routine adds time and complexity to launching the boat. But it works. I'm glad we've got a traditional launching ramp at Marina Del Rey.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Just an example of earlier mentions about weather forecasts. Windyty is predicting 8 kt from the WNW @1400 today in San Diego Bay @ Shelter Island. My anemometer is presently showing 14-17 kt from that direction.
KG

 

[jssailem]

KG the weather station in Windy for Shelter Island reported 15knots wind 22 minutes ago.

You can use the free app and get 3 hour estimates or the paid premium and get hourly estimates.

Here is the wind forecast for the Shelter Island area till 2200 tonight. 5 weather models are showing.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Thanks for this John. I was just using the web summary on Google, not the app, if there is a difference in simultaneity. I’ll look harder at this tomorrow, when we leave. Good to know there is agreement!

One “rule of thumb” for me is that tomorrow’s weather will be like today’s. Somewhere along the way I discovered generally a 3-day autocorrelation in weather. Day 1 correlates with days 2 & 3, but not day 4. Day 2 correlates with days 3 & 4, but not day 5, etc. Of course, the autocorrelation pattern is disrupted by major weather events such as a cold front moving in.

 

[jon hansen]

all i know about san pedro. i love the go for it attitude.