Jamestown sells a 6-pack of 1/4" 12x12 boards for ~$110. There might be a cheaper option available now, but that seemed to be the best I could find when I looked a few years ago. And the 6-pack has lasted me through many projects.
Sailing and restoring #9874
- Thread starter AaronD
- Start date
All kinds of shapes and sizes on ebay. I typically used the 1/4" green fr4, but there's lots of sizes and types. I have a link to them on my site under "moving the helm", but you can search and find it.
....and Jamestown still has it.
....and Jamestown still has it.
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Just to prove it's not all projects, and that we do sail occasionally.
Not long after that second shot, while rowing the WB around, the kids somehow managed to drop not one, but _both_ oars in the water and drift away without grabbing them (I suspect a sibling argument may have been involved). We rescued the drifting kids, but one oar sank before we got to it. Ah well, you have to pay Davy Jones every now and then. And the oars now have paddle leashes attached...
Not long after that second shot, while rowing the WB around, the kids somehow managed to drop not one, but _both_ oars in the water and drift away without grabbing them (I suspect a sibling argument may have been involved). We rescued the drifting kids, but one oar sank before we got to it. Ah well, you have to pay Davy Jones every now and then. And the oars now have paddle leashes attached...
Tether for the BBQ regulator
This one might be useful to someone. At least I've had a couple people seem interested at the dock.
I always worried about dropping the regulator in the drink (our grill is our main means of cooking, so that could make for a problematic cruise). A couple feet of 1/16" galvanized cable and some cable clips, and we should be safe from that issue now (oh - and a little electrical tape to avoid poking my fingers on end of the cable). I clip it to the handle on the stern-rail mount. The tether idea isn't original. But I can't find the reference now to cite the source. Apologies to whomever that was.
One note: I first thought to make this with Amsteel (my all-time favorite boating material). And then realized that a cooking device probably isn't the best place for synthetic line. I guess we still need steel after all.
UPDATE: This tether saved the regulator when an impolite motorboater waked us at the dock hard enough to rock the regulator out of place (unfortunately, the tether didn't prevent the scrapes on the hull from that incident, but at least we could still cook dinner).
This one might be useful to someone. At least I've had a couple people seem interested at the dock.
I always worried about dropping the regulator in the drink (our grill is our main means of cooking, so that could make for a problematic cruise). A couple feet of 1/16" galvanized cable and some cable clips, and we should be safe from that issue now (oh - and a little electrical tape to avoid poking my fingers on end of the cable). I clip it to the handle on the stern-rail mount. The tether idea isn't original. But I can't find the reference now to cite the source. Apologies to whomever that was.
One note: I first thought to make this with Amsteel (my all-time favorite boating material). And then realized that a cooking device probably isn't the best place for synthetic line. I guess we still need steel after all.
UPDATE: This tether saved the regulator when an impolite motorboater waked us at the dock hard enough to rock the regulator out of place (unfortunately, the tether didn't prevent the scrapes on the hull from that incident, but at least we could still cook dinner).
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Double grill mount
Our grill is designed for a single mounting bracket. It worked well for a few seasons, but then it started slipping. The grill would fall over unpredictably (which is startling, and possibly dangerous). Most likely, a little self-amalgamating tape or a replacement sleeve would have worked. But "there's nothing worth doing that isn't worth overdoing..." And I had the double mount (the one for a larger grill) sitting around; I bought it intending to mount a rigid solar panel on the rail, but I went for flexible solar panels instead. So with a little 1/2" Starboard and a few bolts, I adapted the grill for the double mount. It seemed to work great for the last ~1.5 seasons.
Time: 1.25 hours
Cost: $68 (eBay) + a little Starboard and a few bolts from the parts bin
Our grill is designed for a single mounting bracket. It worked well for a few seasons, but then it started slipping. The grill would fall over unpredictably (which is startling, and possibly dangerous). Most likely, a little self-amalgamating tape or a replacement sleeve would have worked. But "there's nothing worth doing that isn't worth overdoing..." And I had the double mount (the one for a larger grill) sitting around; I bought it intending to mount a rigid solar panel on the rail, but I went for flexible solar panels instead. So with a little 1/2" Starboard and a few bolts, I adapted the grill for the double mount. It seemed to work great for the last ~1.5 seasons.
Time: 1.25 hours
Cost: $68 (eBay) + a little Starboard and a few bolts from the parts bin
Good ideas -- what brand of grill are you using?
I'm looking for something a little larger than my current Kuuma 150. There's a lot more to pick from out there now - but some of it looks a little cheaply constructed though from just web photos.
I'm looking for something a little larger than my current Kuuma 150. There's a lot more to pick from out there now - but some of it looks a little cheaply constructed though from just web photos.
We have a Magma A10-703 ('Cabo'). It's about 9" x 18", so not much bigger than yours. It's one of their smaller rectangular ones (maybe the smallest). I don't see it here at the SBO store - the ones they carry are all bigger. And more $$, but might be worth it. FWIW, the Cabo is currently $170 @WM (https://www.westmarine.com/buy/magma--cabo-gas-grill--10977742?recordNum=1). My memory is that's about what we paid for ours 5+ years ago. It seems to be holding up well, so no complaints about the construction.
I should have said that we really like having the cast griddle that fits it - I think this is it: http://www.magmaproducts.com/Produc...iddle/Griddles_Rect_Home/A10-195/a10-195.html. We use it for scrambled eggs, bacon, grilled cheese, reheating leftovers, etc. Recommended.
Replaced porta-potty and plumbed pump out
I found a SeaLand SaniPottie 975 on clearance from Defender; it's the MSD style that can be plumbed for a pump-out (as recommended by @Peggie Hall HeadMistress). We used it as a 'normal' dump porta potty for a season. Even that was an improvement, as it has a 5 gallon tank, ~2x the size of our previous one. (Note that the porta-potty design uses less water than a full marine head, so this 5-gallon system might be equivalent to a head with much larger holding tank (Update: @Peggy Hall HeadMistress says the equivalent would be ~30 gallons). And lighter as well. See Peggy's other discussions for lots of knowledgeable details).
I got around to plumbing the pump-out system the next year. That's been a real winner, since Dad is of course on the hook to deal with all things related to the head. I'm far preferring a pump-out hose to the 'trudge around with the porta potty' routine. The hoses run under the V-berth and up the port side (vent under the rub rail and pump out on the side deck). In the first picture, you can also see my (new and untested) storage for spare parts. That seemed a better use of space next to the head than food storage.
The hose is Raritan Sani / Flex hose (IIRC, chosen per a test in Practical Sailor). It came wrapped in plastic, and I left a bit of it on where it passes through the liner, just in case I missed sanding a sharp spot. The plastic hasn't chafed at all yet, but if it does, I'll wrap the hose in some duct tape or something. and someday I'll repaint the mis-drilled hole next to the vent.
Cost: ~$220 ($98 for porta potty and ~$120 for hose and fittings)
Time: 4.5 hours
Protip: Deck-fill keys are much cheaper here at SBO or on eBay than at WM.
I found a SeaLand SaniPottie 975 on clearance from Defender; it's the MSD style that can be plumbed for a pump-out (as recommended by @Peggie Hall HeadMistress). We used it as a 'normal' dump porta potty for a season. Even that was an improvement, as it has a 5 gallon tank, ~2x the size of our previous one. (Note that the porta-potty design uses less water than a full marine head, so this 5-gallon system might be equivalent to a head with much larger holding tank (Update: @Peggy Hall HeadMistress says the equivalent would be ~30 gallons). And lighter as well. See Peggy's other discussions for lots of knowledgeable details).
I got around to plumbing the pump-out system the next year. That's been a real winner, since Dad is of course on the hook to deal with all things related to the head. I'm far preferring a pump-out hose to the 'trudge around with the porta potty' routine. The hoses run under the V-berth and up the port side (vent under the rub rail and pump out on the side deck). In the first picture, you can also see my (new and untested) storage for spare parts. That seemed a better use of space next to the head than food storage.
The hose is Raritan Sani / Flex hose (IIRC, chosen per a test in Practical Sailor). It came wrapped in plastic, and I left a bit of it on where it passes through the liner, just in case I missed sanding a sharp spot. The plastic hasn't chafed at all yet, but if it does, I'll wrap the hose in some duct tape or something. and someday I'll repaint the mis-drilled hole next to the vent.
Cost: ~$220 ($98 for porta potty and ~$120 for hose and fittings)
Time: 4.5 hours
Protip: Deck-fill keys are much cheaper here at SBO or on eBay than at WM.
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Bloody fabulous!!
How secure is the hold down bracket on that throne?? We've been using a Thetford 550P for the last three years, and the bracket is an absolute JOKE. I've learned how to make it work, but it's kinda ghetto.
Not to mention the 550P is now out of production. I'm not seeing any MSD portapotties at Thetford.com.
A 5 gallon portapotty holds 50-60 flushes, which would require about a 30 gal tank connected to any manual or electric marine toilet.
I've also read that Thetford had discontinued the 550P, but they're still showing it on their website (I came directly from it to post this) and Defender is still showing it as available Thetford 550P MSD on Defender . I also seem to recall seeing a replacement model name/number for it on the Thetford site when I first heard they were discontinuing it, but no sign of that anywhere either. So it may be that retailers are still showing it because they still have it in inventory. The Dometic/Sealand 975 is equal quality, holds the same number of flushes and has a similar price.
--Peggie
The metal bracket seems totally solid. I'd guess that the plastic latch that slots into it would be the weakest link, and it's 3.5" wide and .160" thick, so reasonably substantial. If it were ever to break, I'm pretty sure that me and my bench sander could fabricate a replacement from G10. We've been using the 975 for a couple seasons, including trailering and at least one rough day on the water (rough by my wimpy standards at least - I think I recall you posting video of yourself in much rougher conditions!).
Thanks to @Peggy Hall HeadMistress for correcting me on the flush math. I'll update my earlier post above.
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Winch handle holder on the stern rail
Getting it out of a cockpit pocket clears up space for more important things - you know: feathers, sand dollar shells, pet rocks, and all the other treasures the kids collect on the beach.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?7536. It's bolted to a scrap of thin Starboard and a stainless routing clamp ~$2, IIRC).
Cost: ~$12
Time: 1/2 hour
Getting it out of a cockpit pocket clears up space for more important things - you know: feathers, sand dollar shells, pet rocks, and all the other treasures the kids collect on the beach.
https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?7536. It's bolted to a scrap of thin Starboard and a stainless routing clamp ~$2, IIRC).
Cost: ~$12
Time: 1/2 hour
Great job on the MSD install. Just reviewed the photos with the wife as this is a future project I was interested in doing. She's all in.
Looked at this unit on Defender. $115.00 for the Grey version but $189.99 for the Tan version. Hmm, which one should I choose?
Looked at this unit on Defender. $115.00 for the Grey version but $189.99 for the Tan version. Hmm, which one should I choose?
Thanks. I can't help you with color choices (as my wife would certainly tell you!
). But if you have any questions on the install, feel free to ask. The MSD came with good instructions, and it was pretty straightforward once I decided on a hose routing.
Cockpit drain
Our C-22 came with a (possibly original?) screw gate valve on the cockpit drain. The sink drain had been disconnected at some point, and the tubing had probably been replaced, but otherwise it was pretty much stock 1981. The standard solution is to replace the gate valve with a ball valve and go sailing. But the connecting pipe threaded into polyester resin is reportedly still suspect. So, in my consistent spirit of paranoia, I created a much larger project.
In retrospect, the original threaded pipe was probably completely fine. But I couldn't know that until I'd tried to remove it, and in so doing bunged up the threads for good. So onward I went...
I followed instructions from @Maine Sail at https://marinehowto.com/seacock-backing-plates/. I won't go through step-by-step, because his description is orders of magnitude better than mine would be.
(also see his related writeup at https://marinehowto.com/replacing-thru-hulls-and-seacocks/).
The parts are all Groco bronze (Flanged Adapter, Through-Hull, and Ball Valve). In retrospect, I have no idea why I stuck with the stock 3/4" tube and valve - I should have gone up to 1" or 1-1/4", so it wouldn't clog as easily.
I epoxied a circular G10 plug in the original drain hole, and layered it top and bottom with a few layers of 9oz fiberglass tape. It's not incredibly pretty, but I think it's solid. And the bilge was a good place for my first try at gelcoat. If you saw my other gelcoat attempts, you'd suggest I should stick to work in the bilge...
Lest anyone should fear that my projects ever go as planned: Despite lots of wax, I managed to epoxy the through-hull in place midway through the process and broke my step wrench trying to get it free. I ended up heating it with a heat gun to soften the epoxy a hair (through the bronze through-hull, to heat the epoxy on its threads; the G10 plate bonded to the hull should be unaffected). And I epoxied the step wrench back together (gotta love epoxy!)
Time: 10.5 hours
Cost: ~$150 with caulk, step wrench, etc. (+ fiberglass tape, epoxy, and G10 I already had)
Our C-22 came with a (possibly original?) screw gate valve on the cockpit drain. The sink drain had been disconnected at some point, and the tubing had probably been replaced, but otherwise it was pretty much stock 1981. The standard solution is to replace the gate valve with a ball valve and go sailing. But the connecting pipe threaded into polyester resin is reportedly still suspect. So, in my consistent spirit of paranoia, I created a much larger project.
In retrospect, the original threaded pipe was probably completely fine. But I couldn't know that until I'd tried to remove it, and in so doing bunged up the threads for good. So onward I went...
I followed instructions from @Maine Sail at https://marinehowto.com/seacock-backing-plates/. I won't go through step-by-step, because his description is orders of magnitude better than mine would be.
(also see his related writeup at https://marinehowto.com/replacing-thru-hulls-and-seacocks/).
The parts are all Groco bronze (Flanged Adapter, Through-Hull, and Ball Valve). In retrospect, I have no idea why I stuck with the stock 3/4" tube and valve - I should have gone up to 1" or 1-1/4", so it wouldn't clog as easily.
I epoxied a circular G10 plug in the original drain hole, and layered it top and bottom with a few layers of 9oz fiberglass tape. It's not incredibly pretty, but I think it's solid. And the bilge was a good place for my first try at gelcoat. If you saw my other gelcoat attempts, you'd suggest I should stick to work in the bilge...
Lest anyone should fear that my projects ever go as planned: Despite lots of wax, I managed to epoxy the through-hull in place midway through the process and broke my step wrench trying to get it free. I ended up heating it with a heat gun to soften the epoxy a hair (through the bronze through-hull, to heat the epoxy on its threads; the G10 plate bonded to the hull should be unaffected). And I epoxied the step wrench back together (gotta love epoxy!)
Time: 10.5 hours
Cost: ~$150 with caulk, step wrench, etc. (+ fiberglass tape, epoxy, and G10 I already had)
Looks like everything is included except the hoses and clamps. As I would most likely follow your installation (why recreate the wheel, i'd probably find a way to make it square), can you post the part numbers you used and approximate hose lengths, that way I can just order everything at once and expect it all to work.
Thanks
Thanks
MSD Parts List
I think this is everything. Most of these parts are available here at SBO, or Defender or WM.
--Vetus 5/8" vent (AB16B, $21)
https://www.vetusmarine.com/store/c/552-Stainless-Steel-Breather-Nipples.aspx
The angled one, so the hose can run straight along the hull and bulkhead (the straight vent would require the vent hose to loop outward where it might be in the way)
--Forespar Waste Deck Fill (907004, $18)
If you were down south in a lot of UV, you might use a stainless one instead. But 'marelon' is supposed to be UV stable, and for a summer-only boat here in the PNW, I'm totally fine with that.
--Raritan 1-1/2" Sani Fresh hose (Model: SFH, $13/foot)
I bought 5 feet; 4 might have been fine, but it would have been close.
I didn't take notes at the time, but Practical Sailor did some testing of sanitation hose a few years ago, and I believe this was the most flexible of the ones that did well in their tests.
--Trident Vac XHD 5/8" sanitation hose (148-058, $2/foot)
I bought 7 feet; again, 4 would be fine
--AWAB or ABA hose clamps, 2 for each hose
E.g. https://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?578, although perhaps SBO isn't carrying those anymore.
On further inspection, it appears I used cheap perforated clamps on the vent hose. Shame on me!
This isn't below the waterline, so I just used a single clamp on each end.
--Silicone grease for seals ($3)
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000DZFUPC/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
The center of my vent is 3-1/2" below the center of the rub rail. That gave enough room for the flange on the smooth portion of the hull (below the bulge at the hull-deck joint).
Here's a closeup of the hoses routed up through the V-berth next to the bulkhead, in case that's helpful.
Good luck, and let us know how it goes!
One note on usage (content warning for the squeamish): I have no experience with a real marine head, but because the MSD unit uses less water, I suspect that it's harder to get it pumped clean. After an initial pump-out, I usually add water to the tank, through the deck fill (with the water hose most pump-outs have), and pump another few times. It seems like it takes another 2-3x to get a mostly clear pump-out. I'm not sure how important that is, but it seemed like it might help avoid sludge buildup (@Peggie Hall HeadMistress might chime in and tell us).
Wow, that is great information and will be extremely helpful for this project. Thank you so much.
Have a lot of projects planed as soon as I can get the boat out of storage.
Install Mast Mount Antenna and Cable
Mount Bimini
Install Second Battery under V-Berth
Install new Garmin Echomap 74CV with Transducer. (Transom mounted transducer mounted as in-hull)
Install Raymarine St2000+
Install ProMariner 20 amp Dual Battery Charger
and now the MSD...
Hope I get to go sailing.....
Have a lot of projects planed as soon as I can get the boat out of storage.
Install Mast Mount Antenna and Cable
Mount Bimini
Install Second Battery under V-Berth
Install new Garmin Echomap 74CV with Transducer. (Transom mounted transducer mounted as in-hull)
Install Raymarine St2000+
Install ProMariner 20 amp Dual Battery Charger
and now the MSD...
Hope I get to go sailing.....