Sacrificing Sacrificial Anodes

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Aug 19, 2004
239
Hunter 35 Vancouver, BC
I normally place two zinc anodes on the exposed section of my prop shaft and haul the boat every two years for new zincs and anti-fouling. On this schedule the zincs are usually pretty shot when I get to see them again around their second anniversary. Last year, instead of a haulout, I had a diver scrub the bottom and replace the zincs. When I hauled the boat today the zincs had totally gone after 12 months. Assuming the diver did what he was paid to do, should I be considering putting three or even four zincs on the shaft or........?
 
Dec 1, 1999
2,391
Hunter 28.5 Chesapeake Bay
IMHO,you should be looking for the source of electricity that is eating your anodes. Bad shore power connection? Nearby boats oozing power? Or a DC leak on your boat?
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,240
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
I tried having a diver replace the zincs in the water but similar to you, they were gone very quickly. I just don't think you can get them as tight (underwater) as you can on dry land.

I got into the habit of using three zincs years ago when I was in a real crappy marina which had severe electrical problems. I still use the three zincs although I am now in a good marina and only replace the outer two zincs every two years.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
I...should I be considering putting three or even four zincs on the shaft or........?
No, as previously mentioned, you need to find the source of your rapid zinc depletion.

I tried having a diver replace the zincs in the water but similar to you, they were gone very quickly. I just don't think you can get them as tight (underwater) as you can on dry land.
Ridiculous.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,415
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Assuming your dive monkey installed them properly, you have an electrolysis problem which can only get worse unless you find and fix it. Adding additional zincs won't help. In fact, you can "over-zinc" and exacerbate the problem. Think battery - you are making a bigger one by adding more zinc and obviously you don't want to do that.

I also wouldn't eliminate the possibility that the zincs were installed poorly.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,704
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I normally place two zinc anodes on the exposed section of my prop shaft and haul the boat every two years for new zincs and anti-fouling. On this schedule the zincs are usually pretty shot when I get to see them again around their second anniversary. Last year, instead of a haulout, I had a diver scrub the bottom and replace the zincs. When I hauled the boat today the zincs had totally gone after 12 months. Assuming the diver did what he was paid to do, should I be considering putting three or even four zincs on the shaft or........?
Some thoughts...

*Two years on zincs, which are supposed to be "sacrificial", is really on the side of abnormally slow wear. This could be indicative of poor contact between shaft and zinc and they are not sacrificing the way they should. 90-150 days is fairly "normal" wear but it can go either side of this, up to 360 days, and be dependent upon many factors such as water temp, use of the boat, salt content of your marina's water, how much underwater metal you are protecting, the electrical potentials of the metals you are protecting etc. etc...

For example, if you have a manganese bronze shaft and manganese bronze prop the zinc erosion would be somewhat slower if the boat was not also "bonded" ....

If you had an AQ-22 shaft and manganese bronze prop the wear would be faster. If the boat was bonded, the wear would be faster because you are protecting more metals.

If you added a graphite impregnated packing to the existing AQ-22 shaft and manganese bronze prop the erosion would be even faster. It all depends upon electrical potential.

*
"Gone after 12 months" I would not consider rapid zinc depletion at all. 12 months can still be considered beyond what normal erosion could be in a "by the book" protected boat in high salinity water. Long lasting zincs, beyond 12 months, can often be a bad sign, not a good one but this is not to say zincs can't last beyond 12 months, just that it is out on the fringes of "normal"....

*You ideally need to get someone there with a silver/silver chloride reference cell to determine your level of active "protection"... On numerous occasions I have measured boats with intact zincs that are showing almost no protection. This is often due to improper installation technique of the zinc or the contact over time has been compromised.. In these situations the zincs last for a long time and the owner thinks this is a good thing even though they are doing very little. When they are doing little to no protection they don't tend to erode... When the zincs are installed properly, and making good contact, they now erode at 90-150 days or so (ball park)....

*Thousands of zincs are installed by divers every year and it can be done just as well in the water as out of the water. The shaft and zincs just need to be clean and free of oxides or contaminates that can reduce continuity.

Really the only true way to know the level of protection for your boat, and what is "normal" for your boat, is to use a reference cell to determine a baseline for protection then measure it over time to see when (time wise) you drop below the required protection threshold. My guess is that beyond about 8 months, if you used a reference cell, you'd find you were likely under-protected (this is a shoot from the hip based on lots of actual measurements but your water, current etc. may be different than around here). Zincs can also lose good electrical contact with the shaft as they erode. When they have poor contact, they seem to last a long time.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Some thoughts...

*Two years on zincs, which are supposed to be "sacrificial", is really on the side of abnormally slow wear. This could be indicative of poor contact between shaft and zinc and they are not sacrificing the way they should. 90-150 days is fairly "normal" wear but it can go either side of this, up to 360 days, and be dependent upon many factors such as water temp, use of the boat, salt content of your marina's water, how much underwater metal you are protecting, the electrical potentials of the metals you are protecting etc. etc...

For example, if you have a manganese bronze shaft and manganese bronze prop the zinc erosion would be somewhat slower if the boat was not also "bonded" ....

If you had an AQ-22 shaft and manganese bronze prop the wear would be faster. If the boat was bonded, the wear would be faster because you are protecting more metals.

If you added a graphite impregnated packing to the existing AQ-22 shaft and manganese bronze prop the erosion would be even faster. It all depends upon electrical potential.

*
"Gone after 12 months" I would not consider rapid zinc depletion at all. 12 months can still be considered beyond what normal erosion could be in a "by the book" protected boat in high salinity water . Long lasting zincs, beyond 12 months, can often be a bad sign, not a good one but this is not to say zincs can't last beyond 12 months, just that it is out on the fringes of "normal"....

*You ideally need to get someone there with a silver/silver chloride reference cell to determine your level of active "protection"... On numerous occasions I have measured boats with intact zincs that are showing almost no protection. This is often due to improper installation technique of the zinc or the contact over time has been compromised.. In these situations the zincs last for a long time and the owner thinks this is a good thing even though they are doing very little. When they are doing little to no protection they don't tend to erode... When the zincs are installed properly, and making good contact, they now erode at 90-150 days or so (ball park)....

*Thousands of zincs are installed by divers every year and it can be done just as well in the water as out of the water. The shaft and zincs just need to be clean and free of oxides or contaminates that can reduce continuity.

Really the only true way to know the level of protection for your boat, and what is "normal" for your boat, is to use a reference cell to determine a baseline for protection then measure it over time to see when (time wise) you drop below the required protection threshold. My guess is that beyond about 8 months, if you used a reference cell, you'd find you were likely under-protected (this is a shoot from the hip based on lots of actual measurements but your water, current etc. may be different than around here). Zincs can also lose good electrical contact with the shaft as they erode. When they have poor contact, they seem to last a long time.
Good post. This guy knows what he's taking about.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,924
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Last time I purchased zincs for the boat they did not have the copper contact balls I'm used to. We used to "set" our zincs with a hammer, supposedly creating a better bond between the zinc and shaft. Without the copper balls, I guess the hammer is of no use any more.
They seem to be working all right, but I feel like they just aren't the quality of the older ones.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Last time I purchased zincs for the boat they did not have the copper contact balls I'm used to. We used to "set" our zincs with a hammer, supposedly creating a better bond between the zinc and shaft. Without the copper balls, I guess the hammer is of no use any more.
They seem to be working all right, but I feel like they just aren't the quality of the older ones.
The zincs with BBs are "Martyr" brand, made in China and are inferior, IMHO. A good anode doesn't need the BB to make good electrical contact.
 

Tim R.

.
May 27, 2004
3,626
Caliber 40 Long Range Cruiser Portland, Maine
The Camps I just installed had the BBs in them.

 
Jan 30, 2012
1,141
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
Can someone explain how Martyr zinc anodes meeting MIL-A-18001K specification are inferior?

Charles
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
90 to 150 days is way too fast in our area. Granted our marina is in good shape, but I think in part it depends on the content of the water (including salinity) as well as any man made stray currents in the water. My boat takes almost 3 years to a set of (2) zincs. Granted it's only protecting a shaft and prop. After 36 years there appears to be no significant corrosion on the shaft. The prop was only on for about 8 years but it still shines. Our marina does have significant fresh water inflow from a small river.
 
Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
Can someone explain how Martyr zinc anodes meeting MIL-A-18001K specification are inferior?
18+ years experience installing zincs underwater, that's how. But hey, it's your dime and your boat. Knock yourself out.
 
Jan 30, 2012
1,141
Nor'Sea 27 "Kiwanda" Portland/ Anacortes
I understand you disapprove of Canada Metal (Pacifc) Ltd zinc products.

Are you willing to tell us in what manner exactly Martyr zincs fail rendering them different/inferior to other manufacturer's zincs?

Perhaps you have not installed mil spec compliant Martyr zincs?

Charles
 
Jan 4, 2006
7,240
Hunter 310 West Vancouver, B.C.
Only Cheap Martyr's .............................

The zincs with BBs are "Martyr" brand, made in China and are inferior, IMHO. A good anode doesn't need the BB to make good electrical contact.
........................ contain copper contacts ? ? ? ? These are Camps.

Good electrical contact is required, regardless of quality, and that's what the copper contacts are all about.
 

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Feb 26, 2011
1,440
Achilles SD-130 Alameda, CA
I understand you disapprove of Canada Metal (Pacifc) Ltd zinc products.

Are you willing to tell us in what manner exactly Martyr zincs fail rendering them different/inferior to other manufacturer's zincs?

Perhaps you have not installed mil spec compliant Martyr zincs?

Charles
AFAIK, all Martyr brand zincs claim to be mil-spec. But they're also all made in China. My guess is the baby formula that the Chinese sold us that just happened to be laced with melamine was supposed to meet some quality standard as well. Whatever. I'm no super-patriot, but if I can avoid installing Chinese-made parts on my customer's boats, I will.

That being said, I do not like Martyr anodes for the following other reasons as well:

1.- Low quality attachment hardware
2.- PITA keeper rings on said hardware
3.- The whole copper BB thing. A properly designed anode with close tolerances shouldn't need a copper BB set in it to achieve good electrical contact, IMHO (and the best zincs don't.) The only other brand that uses BBs is Camp, and that my friend, is truly an inferior anode
4.- My primary zinc supplier (Svendsen's) no longer carries Martyr zincs. There's a reason for that and it isn't because they're such a great product
 
Jun 25, 2012
942
hunter 356 Kemah,the Republic of Texas
I normally place two zinc anodes on the exposed section of my prop shaft and haul the boat every two years for new zincs and anti-fouling. On this schedule the zincs are usually pretty shot when I get to see them again around their second anniversary. Last year, instead of a haulout, I had a diver scrub the bottom and replace the zincs. When I hauled the boat today the zincs had totally gone after 12 months. Assuming the diver did what he was paid to do, should I be considering putting three or even four zincs on the shaft or........?

I just spend about 90 bucks on two new zincs and an egg for the shaft. I hang a zinc off the stern dock cleat and attach clamp to arch....Then second zinc gets hung mid ship on dock cleat and clamps to turn buckle at chain plate. This system works out great so if I forget and go to leave the dock the clamps just pull away and zincs stay safe at the dock. The zinc at the stern when checked it last week felt light when I gave it a lift did not look at it but I could tell it was time. So yesterday made a trip down to drop off the rent and check on boat. I made a point to stop off at the local Kemah Hardware/lumber yard and pick up new zincs. Got two fish and an egg. Turns out the rear zinc was 75% gone and the mid ship one was only 20%.....The egg on the shaft I am sure is gone. Been a good 12 months I guess. Did not need the second fish zinc I well save it for later use . Just so happened ran into my boat neighbor who dives on his 44' footer about once every two months. He said that in about 4 weeks he will be doing his again and while he was at it he would put the new egg on for me then.... Lucky me to have great dock neighbors! He said that his shaft zincs have been holding up pretty good and that the Harbor master had just a did sweep of our dock with his magic yellow box and said that all the boats around us checked out good for no excessive stray currents.:doh:
 
Jul 25, 2007
320
-Irwin -Citation 40 Wilmington, NC
Zinc wastage needing replacement every 90-150 days is way too fast. Properly set up you should see no more than 25% wastage per year.
The reason zincs get wasted and are there in the first place is to protect metal as electrons flow from 1 metal to another. Electrons will only flow if there is an imbalance between metals. If your bonding system is properly set up with a bonding wire connecting the metals there should be no imbalance as the metals will be at the same electrical potential, therefore no electrical flow.
Assuming your bonding system is intact if you are plugged into shore power you could get an imbalance from the shore ground that will cause DC currant (AC does not cause galvanic corrosion in most cases) to flow from your boat to the dock or a boat nearby. Installing a galvanic isolator will prevent this.
If you are having to add more zincs or worse yet hang those awful fish zincs from your boat then you have an issue and the best thing to do is fix it.
For the OP he should be able to get by with 1 zinc once a year at most.
 
Sep 25, 2008
1,096
CS 30 Toronto
Marina current leak:

You can build your own galvanic isolator with 4 diodes on a heatsink. Probabily cheaper than just 1 zinc.

Better yet get a isolation transformer.

Self curent leak:

You have to have DC current flow to loose zinc.
May be you have a unbonded engine to the keel.


Eitherway, 90-150 days for a zinc is too fast for me.
 
Oct 17, 2011
2,809
Ericson 29 Southport..
Wayne, why do you call the fish anodes "awful"? I've been looking at the four tons of scrap zinc laying about the yard here, and have given consideration of making homemade "fishes" just as an experiment. Stupid idea?
 
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