Rudder seal leakage

[dwgifford]

I have a 1978 33' Hunter and it has developed a leak around the bellows that is attached between where the rudder post comes thru the hull up to the top bearing. I spent a lot of time yesterday trying to get new hose clamps to stop the leak as one old one was broken but all I was able to do is get it to become a controlled drip. Right now the auto bilge pump is cycling about every hour. I also noticed that the pan under the diesel fills up to a certain height and then dumps to the bilge. Can some one explain the relationship between the shower sump, the diesel engine pan and the main bilge on this model boat. This is a new problem and luckily I had just replaced the bilge pump with a new 1200 gph pump and line all the way up to the thru-hull so it works very well. But I am not comfortable with this increase of water entering my boat, which I stay on a lot of the time. I cannot tell if the bellows if cracked, or if the surface it is mounted is corroded, or what is causing this problem. But I certainly am not comfortable leaving it alone for a very long period of time. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Rudder post leak

First I would refer you to an excellent photo essay that Ken Palmer did: http://hunter.sailboatowners.com/in...7&cat_id=28&aid=7006&page=article&mn=33_77-83 . It is in the H33 "Hunter Owner Mods" in the "Boat Info" tab.

Then you could use "Search" because a few months ago there was a long thread about this. The packing nuts had actually corroded to the shaft so that the hose(bellows?) was turning with the clamps on the hull stub.

Are you sure that the packing gland itself is not the source of the leak?

I repacked mine only to find that it was the hull itself that was leaking(picture). Probably from the grounding that bent my rudder stock.

 

[dwgifford]

Thank you - this does not look like it is going to be much fun. I don't mean to seem stupid but I assume this can not be done except with the boat on the hard?

 

[dwgifford]

I like to do these fixes myself but at 6'-3, 235#, I have a lot of bruises from yesterdays attempts at fixing this. This may be a job for someone else this time.

 

[dwgifford]

Does anyone have a drawing of this assembly or does one even exist?

 

[Steve C.]

If you search 78h 30 leak from stern you will find the thread ED is talking about, there are pics of a couple different rudder stuffing box set ups.I was able to repair mine in the water. I removed the qberth wall/bulkhead for access to the area. I rechecked it a couple weeks ago and it is dry.
The search did not work for me but it is on page 11 of this forum.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Somewhere I have pictures of my own rudder stuffing box. I will keep looking although I thought the H30 was quite different. For some reason I cannot locate the other thread I referenced. The SBO "Search" leaves much to be desired Phil.

Meanwhile here is one link that shows the packing gland much like mine. Under the packing gland on my boat is about six inches of very heavy hose, like radiator hose.
http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html

And is mentioned in the text of the link, most packing glands are above the waterline except when motoring(squatting). That is why mine leaked, it was not the packing but six inches lower where the cracks existed.

Found pics: top of stuffing box and bottom(with cracks visible).

 

[dwgifford]

More info:

Here are a couple of pictures of what my 33' has on it. Maybe someone can tell me what I am looking at and how, if at all, I add packing to this while in the water. My major leakage is around the top of the rubber bellows.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Geez, see what you mean! I have been sitting here comparing your pictures with the ones that are in the first link I gave you. The two are really different. Ken's has no hose of any type. And his pictures do not show that lower collar, actually a bearing to keep the rudder from floating up. And you say the leak is from the top of the hose, right above that top clamp?

Have you had someone turn the wheel while you are watching that area? The big collar should turn but the metal under the clamp should not. That collar looks like the same thing they use on the PSS dripless shaft seal. Could it be that there is no packing gland? Instead you have one of those magnetic seals? Maybe that is where the water is from instead of from under the hose?

Yep, more I study that picture the more I am convinced that you have a PSS shaft seal for a rudder stock. The bellows is what provides the tension between the two sealing surfaces. It has probably weakened . The normal fix on a propellor shaft is to move that big collar down. I think it just takes an allen wrench. If the bellows is shot then yes, the rudder has to be dropped.

 

[Steve Dion]

Steve/Ed:

It would seem to me that the two hose clamps should be right next to each other.

I would try lowering the bellows and making sure that there are smooth surfaces all around that top fitting. Then try to get the bellows as level as possible and as high as possible. Tighten the top one and move the lower one right next to the top one.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Not following you Steve. Doesn't the bottom of the bellows need to remain at the bottom, on the strongest part of the hull stub? Then to get more tension on the bellows that big stainless collar has to be moved down. Or maybe that's what you wrote.

 

[Steve Dion]

Ed: I was suggesting that the bellows are straight (looks like they are slightly cocked).

When the bellows are properly positioned the two hose clamps should be butted right next to each other.

I would just be sure that there is nothing under the bellows or on the stub (at the top) to prevent a perfect seal.

 

[dwgifford]

You are both right. The lower of the top two clamps is loose in the picture as it had slipped off the surface and was causing more leakage. I will first have someone rotate the rudder and see what happens and then I will try to lower the upper collar with the bellows attached and see what happens. I thank you all for the help and I will let you know what happens.

 

[dwgifford]

More rudder leakage

OK - it is still leaking. I would hope that someone out there would know exactly how this setup works because every time I mess with this thing it starts leaking more and the nearest travel-Lift is about 2 hours away. I really do appreciate all the input I have received so far. I just do not know how to proceed without getting in a position where I cannot stop the flow of water.

 

[sandpiper10471]

To replace the bellows will require dropping the rudder which also involves removing the steering drive wheel, so a haul out seems inevitable. I suggest that in the meantime you remove the two clamps, wrap the whole bellows really well with self-amalgamating tape like Tommy Tape and then put two new clamps back on. I know the access is difficult but you certainly don't want it to get any worse, and as you said, you are a couple of hours away from a lift.

Best of luck!