Rookie Question about Spinnaker Tack Line

ToddS

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Sep 11, 2017
248
Beneteau 373 Cape Cod
So I'm not really a rookie to sailing in general, but I'm very new to flying a spinnaker. I have a Beneteau 373, and flew my asym spinnaker this summer for the first time. I've never flown a spinnaker before, so everything I know, I learned from watching a handful of videos (and reading) online. I picked a day with fairly light wind (5-10kts) where I would be on the same tack (broad reach) for a good distance (a couple of hours). The spinnaker I have has a sock... which I loved, and make the whole process much simpler... especially where I sail with my wife and kids as "crew" who know less about this sort of thing than I do.

Anyhow, long-story-short... it went surprisingly well. But near the end of my sail, the wind started to build and got to a point where it was starting to overpower the boat and get a little scary. In hind sight I probably should have doused the spinnaker a little earlier than I did, but no harm, done, and it was a learning experience. Most of what I did to rig/raise/use the spinnaker went very well, but the one thing I did wrong was in rigging the tack line. I fed it through a block I have out on my anchor roller... maybe a foot or a little more ahead of my roller furled jib. I then took the short tack line and brought it back to to a cleat I have on the foredeck. While it worked well while sailing, I realized the problem when I was trying to lower/douse the spinnaker. The line was under lots of load (while sailing) and the end attached to the sail was out of reach from the deck... and the cleated end of the line was difficult to uncleat under load. The method I used was to set that line free... sending the spinnaker up and out like a giant kite, and then pulling the sock line down. All of which worked fantastically except for the difficulty uncleating a line under load. I can't use a quick-release snap shackle there, because it would have to get sucked forward through a block when I free it. I can't use a shackle on the other end either, because I can't (easily/safely) reach the corner of the sail. Rather than reinvent the wheel... I figured I'd ask what others do with similar sails and boats. Advice?
 
Sep 25, 2008
957
Macgregor & Island Packet VENTURE 25 & IP-38 NORTH EAST, MD
Run the tack line back to a cam cleat in the cockpit area, and make the line long enough to do what you want with the sail. You can also let the sheet go some, and turn more dead downwind to douse the sail with the sock.
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
The “trick” is to depower the “beast” before you wrestle it. :)

Turn downwind until the asym becomes blanketed by the main, loosen sheet and pull the sock down over the sail, drop the now “tamed beast” to the deck and take the tack line off.

I’ve seen lots of people cruising that have their asym flying but the main isn’t deployed. Bad idea IMO.

As you are learning make sure you have lots of room to maneuver.
 

BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hello,

Congratulations for flying the spinnaker!

As mentioned, you don't want to just 'blow the tack' when it's time to douse the sail. Instead you want to ease (not release totally) the sheet until the sail luffs. Then pull the sock down over the sail. Then lower the sail with the halyard and then tack line is the last line to release.

On the boat I race on, the tack line is led back to the cockpit and it goes through a cam cleat. When sailing in any sort of a breeze there is way too much load on the tack for it to be adjusted. When it's time to douse that sail (no sock used), we ease the sheet to collapse the sail, then ease the halyard, stuff the sail below (either into the v berth or the companionway depending on what comes next) and then release the tack.

Good luck,
Barry
 
Jul 19, 2013
384
Pearson 31-2 Boston
...

Turn downwind until the asym becomes blanketed by the main, loosen sheet and pull the sock down over the sail, drop the now “tamed beast” to the deck and take the tack line off.
...
IMHO I would caution against relying on this practice, assuming you are flying an asym from your stem (aft of the forestay). Sailing dead down with the asym up becomes a good opportunity for the asym to wrap around the forestay. Better to stay on a broad reach and let the spinnaker luff as you pull the sock down over it....
 
May 17, 2004
5,031
Beneteau Oceanis 37 Havre de Grace
+1 for the advice above about depowering the kite and easing the sheet before pulling the sock down. We douse ours into the dock without touching the tack line. I haven’t ever been close to the problem sailfanatic describes with the sail wrapping around the forestay, but maybe that depends on the boat design.

Also you should check how you’re tying the cleat hitch. It should be possible to ease one even when loaded. That relies on both how the hitch is tied and what angle it enters the cleat from. Here’s a good description of how to keep a cleat hitch from binding -
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,869
Hunter 216 Kingston
IMHO I would caution against relying on this practice, assuming you are flying an asym from your stem (aft of the forestay). Sailing dead down with the asym up becomes a good opportunity for the asym to wrap around the forestay. Better to stay on a broad reach and let the spinnaker luff as you pull the sock down over it....
I don’t think the tack was attached aft of the forestay

“ the end attached to the sail was out of reach from the deck... ”

I also wasn’t implying DDW although to be fair I didn’t explicitly say that. The idea I was trying to provide was to steer a course that takes the “power” out of the sail and get it on deck before it starts to thrash around.

Absolutely agree that getting a big baggy sail wrapped around the forestay would not be fun! :)
 
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PaulK

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Dec 1, 2009
1,222
Sabre 402 Southport, CT
IMHO I would caution against relying on this practice, assuming you are flying an asym from your stem (aft of the forestay). Sailing dead down with the asym up becomes a good opportunity for the asym to wrap around the forestay. Better to stay on a broad reach and let the spinnaker luff as you pull the sock down over it....
OP stated that he was flying his tack line through a block a foot or so forward of his furled jib. Process of releasing the sheet and socking it down seems like the way to go.
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
Here are some pics of how my asym tack line is set up. It runs from back by the cockpit along the toe rail using the same type of OEM sheaves that Beneteau uses for the roller furler line - they are not cheap from Beneteau but they work well and are out of the way.
 

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Jul 19, 2013
384
Pearson 31-2 Boston
I don’t think the tack was attached aft of the forestay

“ the end attached to the sail was out of reach from the deck... ”
...
I forgot that statement, and that location was part of the problem.

The OP needs to consider how he will jibe the chute, as some day he will want to and dare to do so, and then rig the chute accordingly and correctly.

For the traditional symmetrical spinnaker and for an asym flying from a sprit, there's really no choice but to jibe the sail in front of the forestay. You need a real spinnaker halyard (one that flys from crane in front of the forestay) and the asym is obviously tacked in front of the forestay.

For a cruising chute, one not flown from a pole or sprit, you also don't have any choice, if you don't want problems jibing, raising or taking it down. You will jibe it inside the forestay. So you need to tack it at stemhead (next to or aft of the forestay, but NOT foreward of the forestay) and you need to fly the chute using a headsail halyard (a halyard exiting the masthead next of aft the forestay).

Don't tack a cruising chute correctly or use the proper halyard, and you'll have difficulty raising or lowering the sail.
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
7,999
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
I forgot that statement, and that location was part of the problem.

The OP needs to consider how he will jibe the chute, as some day he will want to and dare to do so, and then rig the chute accordingly and correctly.

For the traditional symmetrical spinnaker and for an asym flying from a sprit, there's really no choice but to jibe the sail in front of the forestay.
I guess I've been doing it wrong all these years. My tackline is at the stem head... sometimes I clip the sail's tack to the forestay, like you would if you had a "tacker"... and sometimes I let it fly free.... and since you're going off the wind the tackline will lean forward or out to the side... but never back... you'd have to be going up wind to cause that. What determines whether you gybe inside or outside the fore triangle is the halyard. If it's a proper spin halyard, extending out front of the forestay, you gybe outside...letting the sail float far enough in front of the wire so the sheets get around... The tackline simply moves with it... and even it has to go around the forestay it's just 1/2 a wrap... honestly, it's no problem. If you are using a jib halyard, which is inside the forestay... then you'll want to go inside... but quite frankly, that's hard because the sail does not luff like it does going upwind and there's a lot of potential to damage the sail on the rigging... SO... what most cruisers do instead, is simply douse the sail with the sock.... then walk it to the other side and re launch it....

Finally, all of us, I'm sure, were surprised at the load on the tack line... I know I was... so you want to make it long enough to get back to a winch... other wise you have to use the halyard to adjust the shape and that just doesn't work as well as a tackline. I actually built a 2:1 purchase system for my tackline so I can adjust it by hand more easily... I had to fiddle with it a bit and finally rigged a dynema pendant to the sail that went through the tack block before connecting to the tackle.... which is then connected to 5/16 dacron that can be cleated, winched and handled easily.... Eventually I quit using that system and find it simpler just to make the tackline long enough to reach whichever winch is handiest.
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,994
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@JRacer I like your set up of the tack line at the stern and along the rail.

I am wondering about the location at the bow and how it sets with the sail. I can see when you are running off the wind how the tack line will be up and out beyond the bow pulpit.

What happens if you try to bring the bow up closer to the wind. Then you draw the tack line in does the sail hit the upper pulpit? Are there any conflicts? Or do you generally sail with the asymmetric well greater than 90 degrees?
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,690
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
I forgot that statement, and that location was part of the problem.

The OP needs to consider how he will jibe the chute, as some day he will want to and dare to do so, and then rig the chute accordingly and correctly.

For the traditional symmetrical spinnaker and for an asym flying from a sprit, there's really no choice but to jibe the sail in front of the forestay. You need a real spinnaker halyard (one that flys from crane in front of the forestay) and the asym is obviously tacked in front of the forestay.

For a cruising chute, one not flown from a pole or sprit, you also don't have any choice, if you don't want problems jibing, raising or taking it down. You will jibe it inside the forestay. So you need to tack it at stemhead (next to or aft of the forestay, but NOT foreward of the forestay) and you need to fly the chute using a headsail halyard (a halyard exiting the masthead next of aft the forestay).

Don't tack a cruising chute correctly or use the proper halyard, and you'll have difficulty raising or lowering the sail.
I've never considered flying a spinnaker from a jib halyard. Do many people do this? I'm asking because I just had a conversation yesterday with the owner of a Gulfstar 42 who wants to fly a spinnaker but wasn't sure how best to add the spin halyard. It seems jibing would be a real challenge and using the snuffer would almost be mandatory for jibing with this setup.

On the original post, I agree it is easier to turn down wind and blanket the spinnaker with the main, release the sheet, then snuff the spin with the sock. No need to touch the tack line until the sail is on deck. Dead downwind adds danger of a jibe so best to stay on a deep reach. I really don't know how this would work if tacked inside the forestay and flying on a jib halyard.

A couple years ago I watched a solo sailor use a novel approach when the wind picked up and his spinnaker began to get overpowered. This all seemed to be very well controlled and premeditated, even if a bit of a strange approach. He was sailing on a run, started to round up and as he did he dropped the halyard so the sail ended up downwind in the water. He then released the guy (this was a symmetrical) and hauled the sail in with the sheet then pulled the whole wet mess into the cockpit. Once onboard, he headed back on his way with no worries other than a wet sail. This was a 24 foot boat and probably not the best approach on a 38 footer but something to keep in mind as a last ditch effort.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
A couple years ago I watched a solo sailor use a novel approach when the wind picked up and his spinnaker began to get overpowered. This all seemed to be very well controlled and premeditated, even if a bit of a strange approach. He was sailing on a run, started to round up and as he did he dropped the halyard so the sail ended up downwind in the water. He then released the guy (this was a symmetrical) and hauled the sail in with the sheet then pulled the whole wet mess into the cockpit. Once onboard, he headed back on his way with no worries other than a wet sail. This was a 24 foot boat and probably not the best approach on a 38 footer but something to keep in mind as a last ditch effort.
Except for dropping the spinnaker in the water, this was the basic approach we used on the boats I raced on. Release the guy (either at the spinnaker on big boats, or off the winch on smaller boat leaving the guy attached), start bringing in the foot of the sail into the companionway, and then release the halyard. This was done with spinnaker blanketed by the main and the sail came in under the boom.
 

DArcy

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Feb 11, 2017
1,690
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
This was done with spinnaker blanketed by the main and the sail came in under the boom.
I recently saw a video on Instagram where they hauled in the spin between the boom and main then down the companion way. Neat idea to keep the sail from dropping down into the water. This was about a 60 or 70 footer. If you really want to do it right, check out a douse on a TP52
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,323
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I recently saw a video on Instagram where they hauled in the spin between the boom and main then down the companion way. Neat idea to keep the sail from dropping down into the water. This was about a 60 or 70 footer. If you really want to do it right, check out a douse on a TP52
We never had that much muscle on board our boats.

On the J24 most sailors hang a basket in the companionway, the spinnaker goes in the basket fully rigged with sheet, guy, and halyard attached. When it time to hoist the mast begins to take up the halyard, the pit throws the spinnaker out of the companionway, and up she goes. The spinnaker is never packed, just stuffed into the basket. So long as the pit doesn't twist the spinnaker, it goes up and down correctly.
 

DArcy

.
Feb 11, 2017
1,690
Islander Freeport 36 Ottawa
We never had that much muscle on board our boats.

On the J24 most sailors hang a basket in the companionway, the spinnaker goes in the basket fully rigged with sheet, guy, and halyard attached. When it time to hoist the mast begins to take up the halyard, the pit throws the spinnaker out of the companionway, and up she goes. The spinnaker is never packed, just stuffed into the basket. So long as the pit doesn't twist the spinnaker, it goes up and down correctly.
We do this on the C&C115 I race on when flying the symmetrical, but out of the forward hatch. If we douse on the opposite jibe that we will be launching on next I need to run the sheets, guys and halyard around the forestay. The sail just sits with the corners hanging out of the hatch until the next hoist.
 

BarryL

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May 21, 2004
1,000
Jeanneau Sun Odyssey 409 Mt. Sinai, NY
Hey,

I learned this as the 'letterbox drop' because the sail comes over the boom and under the main, like a letter going into a mailbox.

We use that when the wind is up and we're dropping the big kite.


Barry

I recently saw a video on Instagram where they hauled in the spin between the boom and main then down the companion way. Neat idea to keep the sail from dropping down into the water. This was about a 60 or 70 footer. If you really want to do it right, check out a douse on a TP52
 
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JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
@JRacer I like your set up of the tack line at the stern and along the rail.

I am wondering about the location at the bow and how it sets with the sail. I can see when you are running off the wind how the tack line will be up and out beyond the bow pulpit.

What happens if you try to bring the bow up closer to the wind. Then you draw the tack line in does the sail hit the upper pulpit? Are there any conflicts? Or do you generally sail with the asymmetric well greater than 90 degrees?
Generally don't run it close enough to the wind for it to be an issue. Present setup at the bow is a temporary arrangement until I can get my Selden retractable bowsprit installed.
 
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