Rode Courtesy

Oct 24, 2010
2,405
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
It
I'm also quite new at this. Also trying to get my head around optimum scope, etc., etc.. Throw in the fact that most places that we set our anchor are COMPLETELY new to us, so we have no idea as to bottom, eventual occupancy on that night, wind patterns at night... I spend most of the evening trying to figure out if I've adequately considered all of the variables.

What we have been doing to keep track of things, is to set a mark at the spot where the anchor touches the bottom, on the chartplotter. I use the measure feature on my chartplotter to estimate the distance from our anchor to our boat, and compare that to the amount of rode that we have paid out, once we have finished setting. And, I also use the radar overlay on the chartplotter to measure and periodically recheck the distance from our boat to our closest neighbors. We moved, significantly, the first very time that we set our anchor in a crowded anchorage, and reset it (successfully) a second time. Lately, we've been successful on our first attempt at setting the anchor so that it doesn't move until we want it to.

As to who and what scope is reasonable or not... Given the conditions and the tides for last Friday; you said in your OP that you set at 6:1 (200'/6 would be about 33 ft. of depth), tide at Bainbridge on Friday was 'low' at about 5 PM at 6.4 ft.. If that was the time that you set, then at the 10 foot 'high' tide at about midnight, you would have had a 5.4:1 scope. And then a scope at low/low tide, at 6 AM, of as much as 7.7:1 with 200 ft. of rode. When would you have needed the maximum scope, and how much, for those conditions? If conditions were mild at the time that you set, and expected to stay that way, would your situation have been OK as it was?

Our most entertaining time, in the last couple of weeks, was in a small bay with about seven boats at anchor (we were number three to arrive), where I saw five different approaches to setting an anchor that night, and an additional six or seven other methods over the next two days. The only thing that was consistent over that time, was that we all seemed to choose a spot to drop our anchors where we were staggered on one side of the bay or the other, rather than all lined up in a single row.
Staggered makes sense. That way you can get more boats in.

Looking at the tide and my keel depth I usually look to go as shallow as I can (including my swing) That shortens my swing and keeps me clear of bigger boats.

Last time on the hook, opposing wind and current threatened to wrap our ride around the keel so I dropped a small stern anchor without much scope. That made for a good night's sleep.

ken
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Keeping in mind the 5-7 rule..... what do you normally go with in a well sheltered cove, little to no wave action and variable winds limited to say 5-10, sand bottom? I'm sitting in Blakely Harbor, Wa across from Seattle, by myself. First in the cove and set with 6:1 equaling 200ft. Guy comes up near me, blocks my view of Seattle and sets with his boat ending about 75ft from my anchor. I know this because I pulled up to move away. I told him I had 200 out when he circled by with a loud "200?" coming from him.
So i'm a little confused by your math … If you had 6:1 and 200 feet of rode out, that means the depth would be 28' plus the 5' or so for your bow. Did you say the depth was 5' to 10' sand bottom? If that was the depth, I would also wonder why you needed 200'. But it sounds like your complaint is that they anchored in front of your view, not about the swing diameter. I don't really have sympathy for that. If you liked their spot better, then why didn't you choose it when you got their first? You can't go to take the last row in a movie theater first and complain about the people whom sit in front of you. I know it's a tricky situation … it looks like you might have expected to command too much room for yourself.
 
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Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
So i'm a little confused by your math … If you had 6:1 and 200 feet of rode out, that means the depth would be 28' plus the 5' or so for your bow. Did you say the depth was 5' to 10' sand bottom? If that was the depth, I would also wonder why you needed 200'. But it sounds like your complaint is that they anchored in front of your view, not about the swing diameter. I don't really have sympathy for that. If you liked their spot better, then why didn't you choose it when you got their first? You can't go to take the last row in a movie theater first and complain about the people whom sit in front of you. I know it's a tricky situation … it looks like you might have expected to command too much room for yourself.
Wind was 5-10
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Wind was 5-10
:oops: makes more sense! Still, it looks like you wanted your cake and eat it, too! Did you tuck yourself nice and deep into the cove and expect nobody to come along and take your view? It looks like you could have leap-frogged him to a spot out in front of him if you wanted to. Photos may be deceiving, I know, especially if telephoto is involved. If I were the guy who anchored in front of you and I thought there was plenty of room, I probably would have reacted the same way as he did after a snide comment. I probably would have enjoyed my dinner and not given your disappointment a second thought. There are always 2 sides to a story and so far we only know yours. I'm not suggesting that you weren't wronged, but from the picture, I'm not convinced that the guy didn't have a legitimate claim to the spot. It seems like it could be a close call, either way.
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
:oops: makes more sense! Still, it looks like you wanted your cake and eat it, too! Did you tuck yourself nice and deep into the cove and expect nobody to come along and take your view? It looks like you could have leap-frogged him to a spot out in front of him if you wanted to. Photos may be deceiving, I know, especially if telephoto is involved. If I were the guy who anchored in front of you and I thought there was plenty of room, I probably would have reacted the same way as he did after a snide comment. I probably would have enjoyed my dinner and not given your disappointment a second thought. There are always 2 sides to a story and so far we only know yours. I'm not suggesting that you weren't wronged, but from the picture, I'm not convinced that the guy didn't have a legitimate claim to the spot. It seems like it could be a close call, either way.
The picture was after I moved my anchor back about 100 feet.The view isn’t a question for me as there was a 40+ ft sailboat in front of me on a buoy I could have moved in front of him but it wasn’t that important to me. I’m not following you on the snide comment statement and to be honest with you I’m not following you on most of it....
 
Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
… it looks like you might have expected to command too much room for yourself.
Now I understand this. This is the essence of my post. General ratio rules vs practical room in a cove. Is it normal/acceptable practice to “short change” the rules when room is tight?
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Is it normal/acceptable practice to “short change” the rules when room is tight?
In popular anchorages you’ll find folk using short scope to get in. I’m glad to share space but not at the risk of dragging in a blow or strong tide change. No need to have boat blow down on me. Call it out if getting crowded in. “Hey, we are expecting a blow tonight. I got 200 ft or 7-1 scope out. Hope you have good insurance, or you might want to give us both a bit more room.”
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,045
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
The picture was after I moved my anchor back about 100 feet.The view isn’t a question for me as there was a 40+ ft sailboat in front of me on a buoy I could have moved in front of him but it wasn’t that important to me. I’m not following you on the snide comment statement and to be honest with you I’m not following you on most of it....
Since you moved back, that explains the photo. The photo seems to show a reasonable space. I can understand your objection if he anchored about 100 feet closer to your original position. I think there really is no good answer about whether or not the general ratio rules can be fudged when the anchorage gets tight. I suppose it all depends on the conditions. Everybody is also going to have a different comfort level.

With regard to my comment about your comment, maybe calling it snide was overstated. If the guy really was too close, I'd say your comment was actually polite! :cool: It's all a matter of perspective. He may have thought that he gave you enough room, therefore the "what's up" attitude.

Overall, I'd say that you took the high road and didn't cause an unnecessary confrontation. I don't blame you for feeling a bit disgruntled, but it's better not to completely ruin the evening. You didn't seem to let it bother you too much. My only point is that perspective is always going to be variable among any group of boaters. Disagreements are often unavoidable and hard & fast rules rarely work perfectly.

Besides all of that, I tend to look for arguments whenever there is even a hint of controversy! :(
 
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Dec 28, 2015
1,837
Laser, Hunter H30 Cherubini Tacoma
So after a couple years of experience at this topic and sitting on the hook in Sucia for the past 3-4 hours I had a boat come in and drop at at or less 100 feet from my stern probably 75. Although this is a popular spot there is a lot of spacing, I’d say twice that from all the boats aleady here. I’ve switched to a oversized Excel and have had zero issues with dragging so I have dropped my scope to 3:1 in sheltered areas. i asked them how much scope they were going to put out and the answer was 120. i understand the whole unison swing thing but all boats don’t swing in unison and different rode lengths really make it difficult.
would you be fine with someone doing this and depending on unison swing? conditions are mild with a breeze at about 2.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,995
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
In that anchorage the big thing is Tidal current (East-West). Second is wind from the wrong direction (East). Is there a chance that the two of you might meet in the night? Yes if foul weather and tides align.

Nothing wrong with asking if the other boat captain has good insurance coverage. Could elicit a “Why?” Because it appears your anchor location could make us bang together if the winds and tides happen. I’ve been wanting a new bow pulpit.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,401
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Just because no one has mentioned it directly:

Case law says (and anyone can interpret this--Google the topic) that the first boat has the right to swing and that later arrivals must keep clear (not foul the berth of the first boat). It does not say that they must be outside your swing circle, only that they must not foul you (contact or tangle rodes). This first boat privilege stops if you drag (you are no longer moored).

Obviously no one wants to get into this argument, proof is a bugger (folks will claim the other boat dragged anchor), and courtesy says give people room. Heck, if they wanted to hear your conversations they would have stayed in a marina! Courtesty might say shorten your scope, but not if you feel, based on YOUR ground tackle, the bottom type, and the weather during the time you will be there, that you need more scope. Do what is safe.

If you use rope rode, a light kellet (loop of chain) will help you swing with boats on chain and reduce yawing in lighter winds. But it does not really reduce your scope requirement, which will be greater than all-chain. The corollary is to EXPECT that boats with rope rode have greater scope. They must. Assume they do not use a kellet.

One rule of thumb for MINIMUM spacing is to drop abeam of other boats, about one rode + boat length away, and then hang back (see below). Swing circles will overlap, but not too much, and the maximum number of boats with fit (hexagonal close packing). This is the BARE minimum. More is better, and assume the other guy is using more scope than you think.

4. spacing at anchor.jpg
 
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Nov 22, 2011
1,192
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
One rule of thumb for MINIMUM spacing is to drop abeam of other boats, about one rode + boat length away, and then hang back (see below). Swing circles will overlap, but not too much, and the maximum number of boats with fit (hexagonal close packing). This is the BARE minimum. More is better, and assume the other guy is using more scope than you think.
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Bob S

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Sep 27, 2007
1,771
Beneteau 393 New Bedford, MA
I wish there were a way to telegraph your scope when you're anchored. I have never questioned a boat coming in after me but I have been questioned on occasion by an overly nervous captain (inside Cuttyhunk). I have never hit/ swung into a neighboring boat but I did have to watch a particulaly large power boat who came in after me (Block Island). He would have swung into me if I hadn't let out more scope to avoid a collision. NE is notorious for crowded anchorages so picking your spot gets a little tricky. The more you do it the better you get at determining the ideal spot. When there are just a few boats in an anchorage there is now reason to drop close.