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Rode Courtesy

jviss

.
Feb 5, 2004
3,934
Tartan 3800 Westport, MA
7:1 is a pipe dream in most of the anchorages I used to frequent. Most of the boats are day trippers so after they leave you get a better picture of the situation. It wasn't unusual to re-anchor then but you just don't get that much room. Sailboat tend to arrive later in the day so we usually have to fit in.
I think we took a mooring in the pond at Cuttyhunk but they were Poupon Mustard tight.
Yes, I think the moorings in Cuttyhunk are too tight. I think they are $45 now, and if boats raft, everyone pays! Outrageous. I know they can't handle a 50' boat.

We anchor there. Have always managed to squeeze in.
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
3,530
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
This is not something that warranted bragging rights, imho.
With the 65# genuine CQR on 3/8" chain we often used as much as 10:1 and still didn't sleep well. Once we moved to an 88# Rocna and 1/2" chain we went down to 7:1 then 5:1 and we now rarely anchor with more than 3:1. We sleep well and worry not at all about dragging in less that 60 knots of wind.
In one situation, anchoring in an extremely crowded anchorage just to clear into SVG, the chain got hung up in 40' of water and only between 60 and 70 feet got out (or marks are at 50' and 75'), in 20 knots of wind. While Nikki ran below to unfoul the chain I stood on the fore deck thinking of all the horrible things that were about to befall us. Almost before I could muster up these dark thoughts, the Rocna dug in and Skipping Stone swung bow to wind. Whew. Nikki got the chain free and we dropped 3:1 and sat just fine until we had cleared customs and moved on to a slightly less crowded anchorage.
IMO many out there do not have the proper gear to sleep comfortably on their anchor tackle on what I learned many years ago was the proper scope; 3:1 with all chain and 5-7:1 on cable or line and chain. I've found we sit much more comfortably and quietly on 3:1. This also has the added benefit of the chain wearing much less as more is suspended and less is dragging around on the bottom.
For every one of us our anchor tackle can be the difference between losing the boat and possibly fatal consequences for the crew, yet many are hesitant to spend the money on the tackle we should have. This includes a powered windlass of the proper size as well as the proper anchor tackle for our boats. It is a complete fallacy to say that a powered windlass will fail one day as any proper powered windlass can be used manually exactly as a manual one is; with a bar meant for exactly that purpose. Numerous times I have seen someone on dragging boats with a manual windlass cranking away to exhaustion trying to bring up their gear in a big squall, dragging their anchor along the bottom, just barely missing fouling other well anchored boats' gear, when they could have gotten their gear up quickly (most good powered windlasses operate at around 60 fpm), efficiently and without risking the boat or their heart.
There is nothing better than being able to sleep soundly at night because you know without a doubt that your anchor tackle will do it's job. However, I don't have a cure for worrying about the other boats other than not anchoring where they would and that seems like you'd have to pick some pretty uncomfortable anchorages to achieve that.
As for backing down on my anchor, for the first year we had the Rocna and heavier chain, we dove on the anchor nearly every single time we dropped it and did not back down on it, but rather let the wind and the boat's weight set the pick. It was the rare day when the Rocna dragged it's own length before setting. Of course, if we are Med mooring or there is no wind at all, we will gently set the anchor, but I'm not a big fan of powering back and unsetting an anchor before it has had the time to set. Some seem to miss their farm and their plow, making up for it by dragging their anchor backing down hard, plowing the bay bottom over and over again.
Believe me, I was not impressed by the idea of a "nextgen" anchor until I tried one. Now I'm completely sold. I still carry 4 older anchors for extreme situations like hurricanes, but no longer even carry a second anchor on the bow. I do use a stout snub line, 1" nylon, though and can rig two should it ever be necessary.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
4,577
Slickcraft 26 Greenport, NY
I've seen a lot of anchoring boats rip their anchors from the bottom by backing down on it. It never made much sense to me. After the anchor has been on the bottom a while, maybe. This is one of those things that was in Chapman's and has been included in many, many cruising courses which isn't necessary, if you are in an anchorage with good holding. I'm not sure it's appropriate in bad holding either.
 
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Mar 1, 2012
2,009
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
I was crewing once on a 50 foot on deck schooner. We were Bahama moored to two 100 pound fisherman anchors, with 100 feet of chain on each. In a tide way. A Catalina 30 came in and anchored so he was right beside us, maybe 3 boat lengths away. The lady on the schooner went on deck and told the guy he was too close. He informed her he was just fine. She told him- suit yourself, but we weigh 50,000 pounds. We watched through the ports as his wife came up, talked quite loudly, and then he moved :)
 
Jan 22, 2008
7,330
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
The douchbag in question may or may not be in the picture. I would like to enjoy the evening also (that's why I'm there) no music. As I pulled up my anchor close enough to see what they were eating I told him "don't worry, I'll move, enjoy your dinner" he put his hands up like what was he suppose to do. I haven't been doing this long but I know that's not what you do.
Was there a reason you didn't give him one or 5 toots on the horn, then wave him to the right, maybe then creating an angle with your arms to delineate your flield of view?

I once anchored my B235 in Annapolos Harbor for the fireworks. I was in the shallows betwen EYC and the channel going to the inner mooring field. Guy in a anchored 35-foot wooden cabin cruiser starts getting closer to me and I notice he is not swinging with the wind and/or current. He says I need to shorten scope. I got up and push a button on the depth meter and told him I was in 6 feet of water. He said he was anchored in 45 feet, but went to check. Yeah, his anchor was in 45, but his rudder must have been in the bottom and he was not swinging. He hurridly motored ahead and shortened scope. That was where I knew I was right, and the guy was just oblivious to his own situation.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
3,597
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Sorry if this offends you but I think 2.5:1 is just irresponsible. If you think you can predict the weather so good that you know when every squall is going to come through then I question if you should be on the water. Many a night, from Maine to southern Caribbean, we have been anchored and sitting quietly with a weather forecast that says less than 10% chance of rain and had a squall pop up with 20-30 knot gusts. If you have 2.5:1 out then you will drag.
Not offended, but I don’t think “irresponsible” is a fair evaluation. Just about every “call” a skipper makes is situational. I think we all have been throughly indoctrinated through advertising, the press, and regulatory bodies to trust formulas, slogans, and pat answers over one’s own knowledge, experience, and reasoning. I don’t wish to consume half a page with this “rebuttal” but one cannot fairly fault my decision in my cruising circumstances b/c it differs from what your decision might be in your cruising circumstances, or b/c it deviates from “formula.”

Thunderstorms and any associated squalls are extremely rare in coastal Southern California; it’s just not like the tropics and subtropics. Very arid over cool waters. The weather is much less variable. Sleeping through the night anchored on short scope in a very crowded anchorage might not be wise—but nobody said anything about sleeping through the night.

So, here’s the situation. Had planned to spend the Labor Day Weekend at Santa Barbara Island w/ a companion boat new to us. Supposed to rendezvous at Two Harbors Friday night. The skipper turned out to be the biggest dick-head ever to make a plan with, so by near dusk we’re still trying find the guy who evidently had his VHF turned off. EVERY mooring at Two Harbors was occupied or reserved for its lease holder. So, we diverted to Cat Harbor on the “back side” of the island where it turned out to be the same situation. So, no balls for the twice-a-year powerboaters up from San Diego or Marina del Rey, so they’re out near the edge of the mooring field trying multiple times in large boats full of partiers to anchor in 70 ft or more of water. There was one little “spot” closer to shore in 30 ft out of the way of those guys where we could drop and swing w/o hitting one of the bow-stern anchorers already there with their ridiculous amounts of scope out, if we rode the night on short scope, so I took it. Grilled dinner, stood anchor watch more than half the night, and we’re under way to SBI by around 0600 the next morning. No big deal.
 
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Jul 1, 2010
704
Seaward 25, Catalina 350 Erie, Pa
I think Capta summed it up well. I never knew there was a 5-7:1 rule. Too many factors to consider. What anchor are you using, how is your anchor sized for your boat, what rode, what bottom, expected weather, how long is your snubber / bridle? All these things matter and what works for you may not work for someone else's boat.

For us, with all chain, a mantus anchor sized one size larger than recommended, and a nylon bridle that I generally set at 20' (but can go to 40' if needed) we generally put out 3:1 or 4:1 and sleep well.

The guy who anchored near you wasn't too close by our standards in the east, though you would think he could have found a place a little further off to the side, but who knows? Maybe weed beds in the area? However if he had out 3:1 and you had out 7:1 could be an issue if the wind did a 180 degree shift.
 
Oct 22, 2014
11,753
CAL 35 Cruiser Portland OR, moored EVERETT WA
Thanks KG. The moment I sent that I knew something was wrong... But then there is the brief "pause that refreshes "
 
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Dec 28, 2015
694
Laser, Hunter H30 Standard Tacoma
Was there a reason you didn't give him one or 5 toots on the horn, then wave him to the right, maybe then creating an angle with your arms to delineate your flield of view?

I once anchored my B235 in Annapolos Harbor for the fireworks. I was in the shallows betwen EYC and the channel going to the inner mooring field. Guy in a anchored 35-foot wooden cabin cruiser starts getting closer to me and I notice he is not swinging with the wind and/or current. He says I need to shorten scope. I got up and push a button on the depth meter and told him I was in 6 feet of water. He said he was anchored in 45 feet, but went to check. Yeah, his anchor was in 45, but his rudder must have been in the bottom and he was not swinging. He hurridly motored ahead and shortened scope. That was where I knew I was right, and the guy was just oblivious to his own situation.
I didnt need to. He cruised by me when I was in my hamick on the bow. He was close enough for me to tell him and for me to hear his response.
 
Mar 1, 2012
2,009
1961 Rhodes Meridian 25 Texas coast
Yeah, wasn't thinking of that being in the Great Lakes now. When we visited Maine, though, 10 ' tides made you think a little more when dropping the anchor :)
Carolinas also- 7-9 foot tide and sometimes more. Here on the Texas coast? 1 foot once a day.
 
Dec 28, 2015
694
Laser, Hunter H30 Standard Tacoma
There is just something wrong disturbing the view of a guy in his "hamick".
Niw you're feeling my pain but the view thing isn't a part of my rant budd I believe it was the reason he placed himself there just like me but he was a about 2 hours late.
 
Oct 24, 2010
2,133
Hunter 30 Everett, WA
Another senerio I saw today: one boat there already. More came in. Then the first boat shouted that it needed more room because someone was coming to raft with them. Does the first boat then become the last boat? Do they have a claim for more water?

Ken
 

capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
3,530
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
Another senerio I saw today: one boat there already. More came in. Then the first boat shouted that it needed more room because someone was coming to raft with them. Does the first boat then become the last boat? Do they have a claim for more water?

Ken
Adding a boat rafting up is no excuse to inconvenience everyone else. If the guy didn't lay out enough rode when he anchored for the rafting, then he's SOL later.