right of way: stubborn or crunch?

[Roger Long]

Agree totally.

The rational I saw for the term being changed from "Right of Way" to "Stand On" makes perfect sense. The "Burndened" vessel actually has complete freedom of action. It can make any course or speed alteration necessary to avoid a collision at any point in the encounter. The "Right of Way" vessel is actually burndened by the obligation to maintain a straight and predictable course so that the other vessel can go around it. Unless action is taken so early and so clearly as to eliminate it as a factor (which I often do for commercial craft), it then has its speed and course dictated up until the point at which there is an imminent danger of a collision.

 

[RichH]

The rational I saw for the term being changed from "Right of Way" to "Stand On" makes perfect sense. The "Burndened" vessel actually has complete freedom of action. It can make any course or speed alteration necessary to avoid a collision at any point in the encounter. The "Right of Way" vessel is actually burndened by the obligation to maintain a straight and predictable course so that the other vessel can go around it. Unless action is taken so early and so clearly as to eliminate it as a factor (which I often do for commercial craft), it then has its speed and course dictated up until the point at which there is an imminent danger of a collision.

.... and thats why when sailboat racing, to start the race on PORT TACK; you then have the 'choice' to stay on port or go over to stb. tack. Those that start on stb. tack dont have any 'choice'. ;-)

 

[Absolutely]

It's been 30 years since I have heard anyone reference the "Black Ball". It just always told people what you were doing in the daylight hours just as the "anchor light" did so at night. Nice form. I think it's very important not to change your route on direction so that the other boat can assume your future position. But, if you see danger, turn but always away.

 

[BobT]

action photos

The point about being stand on vessel is is a big one. But it's moot if there's no one to communicate our intentions to.

My guest was doing what he does most of the time...clicking away. Here's a few. The 'nearness' of the potential collision isn't really my point. I was able to head up a couple degrees and gain some distance, and I could have dumped the traveller and fallen off behind. This looks like a brand new boat and just the fact that an apparent delivery captain was so inattentive is the crazy part.

 

[Mike B]

It was either a broker or hired captain delivering the boat. Take a look a the transom, it has the model and price on it. $20 says he was on autopilot and dropped down below to take a pee. BTW it's not just a power boater thing. Saw a less than 1 yr old sailboat with a crunched bow cuz the captain was down below doing the same thing. Ran it smake dab into a buoy. Fortunately damage was easily repaired. Most the power boaters I know build routes in the chart plotter then run on autopilot. Too bad they don't know how to turn it off. Had a buddy almost run us out of the channel in Eastern Bay. When I called him on it he was a bit insulted stating he was on autopilot heading to the next mark and what was the problem? This was from a guy I thought knew his stuff.

 

[Ron20324]

Maybe on his way to the Annapolis powerboat show?

 

[Joe]

I read about 'hanging a black ball' while under anchor during the day. What do I need to get to do this? Is it a flag or a ball like a beach ball?

You have a copy of "Chapman's" right?. If you're anchoring in a designated anchorage you don't need the ball or the light. If, for some reason, you have to anchor in a channel or any trafficked area.. you need to identify yourself to others as being anchored and unable to maneuver. Anchoring out of the way of traffic, such as in a secluded cove, would not require a light or a ball.

You can buy a ball or make one out of two pieces of cardboard. You hang the ball in daytime, a lantern at night, from the forestay, suspended over the fore deck.

The keyword is traffic area. Most people never anchor their boats in a traffic area except in an emergency or unless they're fishing.

 

[jibes138]

I blame the sailboat in this case

You start out saying the cruiser was in a navigable channel and that you were crossing the channel. A vessel constrained by draft in a navigable channel is also a stand on vessel. What was the recorded depth of the area you were sailing and what draft did the cruiser have? If it was a container ship coming down the channel would you still have thought you were the stand on vessel? No excuse for not maintaining a lookout but sometimes the other boat can't maneuver so be aware of this rule as well.
Another one is if the boat is engaged in commercial fishing, the sailboat becomes the giveway vessel. All kinds of exceptions to the sailboat thinking they are always the stand on vessel.
Get a copy of the Navigation Rules and study them. They are free download from the us government web site or you can send dollars for a printed copy.

 

[jibes138]

Food for thought

(a) (i) [Inld] A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable.

(ii) Notwithstanding paragraph (a)(i) and Rule 14(a), a power-driven vessel operating in narrow channels or fairways on the Great Lakes, Western Rivers, or waters specified by the Secretary, and proceeding downbound with a following current shall have the right-of-way over an upbound vessel, shall propose the manner and place of passage, and shall initiate the maneuvering signals prescribed by Rule 34(a)(i), as appropriate. The vessel proceeding upbound against the current shall hold as necessary to permit safe passing. [Inld]
​

(b) </SPAN>A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway.
(c) A vessel engaged in fishing shall not impede the passage of any other vessel navigating within a narrow channel or fairway.
(d) </SPAN>A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel.
(e)

RULE 18
RESPONSIBILITIES BETWEEN VESSELS​

Except where Rules 9, 10, and 13 otherwise require:
(a) A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

1. 1. a vessel not under command;
   2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
   3. a vessel engaged in fishing;
   4. a sailing vessel.

(b) A sailing vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:

1. 1. a vessel not under command;
   2. a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver;
   3. a vessel engaged in fishing.

 

[BobT]

Maneuverability was not an issue here. Neither was fishing, commercialness or any other waffle batter. My draft is 3'8, their draft is 4'0 I'm 27', this boat 36'. My horse power <10, theirs 230. Depth of channel 36', depth of the surrounding area: 16'. The guy was in the salon, several steps down from the helm, sitting at a table facing the port side, back to my on his starboard side. I could see him. I held my course at the stand on vessel until it became apparent that we Would intersect catastrophically. Then I changed my course. Since I was able to cross her bow, I could see clearly that the helm was empty. This is meant to be a warning to others about who's out there, rather than an 'angels dancing on the head of a pin' debate. It should also be a warning to Us about how quickly a situation can develop when one just might be trying to enter a waypoint on the handheld or something for a 'couple seconds' which is really 4-5 minutes. Take a Very long look around before you duck below 'for a sec'.

This is very likely the boat.

http://www.boatquest.com/Power/MARINE-TRADER/Category/35/89592/Feet/USD/1/boats_specs.aspx

 

[Mike B]

Possibly

Maybe on his way to the Annapolis powerboat show?

Yes he may have been. He'd be a little bit early but some times they have to do that.

 

[Mike B]

Any chance his boat had an inside helm? He may have been running from there to keep warm, easy access to the head, food, etc. I'd still bet he had it on autopilot.

The upper bay is a very busy place. A long time ago I stopped expecting other boats to give way when I was the stand on vessel. That applies to both power and sail. I just figure it's the same guy who sits in the left hand lane on the highway oblivious to the fact he's blocking traffic. No sense in raising the BP so I just make the first move and do so early on. The wife appreciates the reduced tension as well.

 

[kenn]

Slightly off-topic - I can't get over how many motorboats, when on an intersecting course with our boat under sail and where we are clearly the stand-on boat, still insist on attempting to cross my bow, rather than at the stern. Seems to be an ego thing, like crossing behind me signifies inferiority or weakness. Usually they misjudge and they either pass dangerously close across the bow, or they have to gun it and swerve to complete the pass, or I end up having to alter course to keep clear. And of course there's a big fat wake for us to cross.

Even motoring sailboats seem to behave like this. Drives me nuts. :cussing:

If you are the give-way boat, cross at the stern, already. I promise to not think less of you.

 

[Stu Jackson]

I just figure it's the same guy who sits in the left hand lane on the highway oblivious to the fact he's blocking traffic. The wife appreciates the reduced tension as well.

Mike, ya nailed it. We drive two days on I-5 north to Canada to visit the folks. For some bizarre reason there's this gaggle of people who think it's just fine to get on the highway and sit in the left lane on a two lane interstate at five miles below the speed limit, when the signs say slower traffic keep right. The signs should all be replaced with: Use left lane for passing only. Not that these yahoos would care.

And they actually slow down when they're passing trucks instead of goosing it to clear the danger zones. Jerks. Don't get me started on rain and snow conditions.

OK, I feel a bit better now...

 

[jibes138]

Collision avoidance regulations

A vessel at risk of collision is obligated to take evasive action early enough and drastically enough so as to not leave any doubt as to the purpose of the course correction. We can all complaign about the powerboaters but how many times will a sailboat play stand on vessel and then tack before actually crossing the power boat. Not all sailors are squeeky clean in this regard either. Taking a large power boat off plane takes a huge amount of energy so I'm sure on a power boat forum they are whining about the sailors.

In any crossing situation you need to watch the relative bearing of the other boat and if the bearing is not changing there is a risk of collision. If the other boat is not taking action to modify the course then the stand on vessel has an obligation to avoid the risk of collision by substantially altering course. This is a code of federal regulations, so you are guilty in a court of law if you do not comply. Call it waffle batter or whatever you like but collisions at sea are not looked at as one sided blame since both vessels have responsibility to avoid collision, especially in clear visibility in daylight. Please read the navigation rules to get some clarity on this.

 

[Mike B]

Mike, ya nailed it. We drive two days on I-5 north to Canada to visit the folks. For some bizarre reason there's this gaggle of people who think it's just fine to get on the highway and sit in the left lane on a two lane interstate at five miles below the speed limit, when the signs say slower traffic keep right. The signs should all be replaced with: Use left lane for passing only. Not that these yahoos would care.

And they actually slow down when they're passing trucks instead of goosing it to clear the danger zones. Jerks. Don't get me started on rain and snow conditions.

OK, I feel a bit better now...

Stu, now just imagine those people getting out of their cars and into boats. Do we really expect them to change their habits. It's very doubtful. I used to get upset about it but realized it wont change and I had to either accept it or sell the boat. I like boating too much so now I make the first move and continue to enjoy my day.
Mike

 

[Stu Jackson]

Mike, I agree. I've found a great place on the Bay for a day sail where NOBODY ever goes, and I ain't tellin'!

I also enjoy ocean sailing, too, since most folks dont' go there either.

 

[Ross]

I have had sailboats cross my bow and then tack back across my bow at such close quarters that I was forced to alter course to avoid a collision. This was by a sailing school boat with an instructor aboard. I wrote to the school and complained. I got no responce but now the school sends their boats to less congested areas.

 

[Ron20324]

I have had sailboats cross my bow and then tack back across my bow at such close quarters that I was forced to alter course to avoid a collision. This was by a sailing school boat with an instructor aboard. I wrote to the school and complained. I got no responce but now the school sends their boats to less congested areas.

Ross, we get the same thing on Back Creek here in Annapolis.

 

[Maine Sail]

I have had sailboats cross my bow and then tack back across my bow at such close quarters that I was forced to alter course to avoid a collision. This was by a sailing school boat with an instructor aboard. I wrote to the school and complained. I got no responce but now the school sends their boats to less congested areas.

Part of the problem of proximity with sailors is racers vs. non racers. Racers are very, very comfortable sailing in tight and generally, but not always, have tremendous understanding of how their boat will respond and how close they can get. I have no problems with close proximity but lots of my cruiser only friends do, more so than racers. Just an observation..