right of way: stubborn or crunch?

Stu Jackson · Sep 29, 2009

I just love cruising through

the racing fleets! I make sure I do not get in their way, nor steal their air. I've raced and been clocked by some dumb cruisers. I've also cruised and gotten clocked by some dumb racers. Just because they're racing doesn't mean they should ignore the stand on give way rules. Unfortunately, that happens all too often.

Now that w'eve clocked the sailors, back to raking the stinkpotters!

Ross · Sep 29, 2009

Bicycles are legal vehicles and are entitled to an entire lane.

Mike B · Sep 29, 2009

Ross said:
I have had sailboats cross my bow and then tack back across my bow at such close quarters that I was forced to alter course to avoid a collision. This was by a sailing school boat with an instructor aboard. I wrote to the school and complained. I got no responce but now the school sends their boats to less congested areas.

A couple of years ago in the mouth of the Sassafras River I had the Navy's sailboat crew force me to tack away while I was on STBD tack. They seemed preoccupied and totally unaware of the rules of the road. I figured if the US Navy couldn't get it right who could? I thought of calling them on the radio but chose not to. I tacked away and shook my head in disbelief.

sinnettc · Sep 29, 2009

Mike B said:
A couple of years ago in the mouth of the Sassafras River I had the Navy's sailboat crew force me to tack away while I was on STBD tack. They seemed preoccupied and totally unaware of the rules of the road. I figured if the US Navy couldn't get it right who could? I thought of calling them on the radio but chose not to. I tacked away and shook my head in disbelief.

No, it's just that they were waiting for you to scream out "STARBOARD!!!"at the top of your lungs!

BobM · Sep 30, 2009

A local club

Ross said:
I have had sailboats cross my bow and then tack back across my bow at such close quarters that I was forced to alter course to avoid a collision. This was by a sailing school boat with an instructor aboard. I wrote to the school and complained. I got no responce but now the school sends their boats to less congested areas.

The club next door set up their course across the end of the channel for crying out loud! I was coming in and a stream of 420's came zipping across the channel, around a float to port of the channel and then back across the channel right in front of me. Then my furler jammed and I reversed course to open water to try to clear it and had to pass the gauntlet again...give me a break! Those guys clearly should have known better. They are sailors for crying out loud and definitely knew they laid the course over an area of limited maneuverability.

Paul J. Rusyniak · Sep 30, 2009

Ross said:
Bicycles are legal vehicles and are entitled to an entire lane.

Ross...
Off-topic here but I don't think bicyclists in New York State are "entitled to an entire lane".
Paul

RichH · Sep 30, 2009

Mike B said:
A couple of years ago in the mouth of the Sassafras River I had the Navy's sailboat crew force me to tack away while I was on STBD tack. They seemed preoccupied and totally unaware of the rules of the road. I figured if the US Navy couldn't get it right who could? I thought of calling them on the radio but chose not to. I tacked away and shook my head in disbelief.

5 long blasts on a freon powered air horn ought to get their attention.

However, If both boats are on the same tack and you were to windward and the other boat is "pointing higher, etc.".... then you should tack away

kenn · Sep 30, 2009

Paul J. Rusyniak said:
Ross...
Off-topic here but I don't think bicyclists in New York State are "entitled to an entire lane".
Paul

Still off topic - they probably are, Paul. If any vehicle is legally allowed on a roadway, they can, if necessary for safety, occupy the whole lane, which requires autos to pass them only when another lane is free. An auto cannot legally force a bike out of a lane, even if they're stuck behind it.

Example: If there's a dedicated left turn lane, and I'm on my bike going left, I position and move in the middle of the turn lane, because allowing a left-turning car beside me would likely run me off into a median.

In my experience, most cyclists try to stay close to the lane edge, and cars can usually pass the bike within the same lane. But it's not a right...

Ok back to sailing

Paul J. Rusyniak · Sep 30, 2009

kenn...
Your example may be the case in Ontario, but I don't think that's quite how it is in NYS.
Paul

kenn · Sep 30, 2009

Paul J. Rusyniak said:
kenn...
Your example may be the case in Ontario, but I don't think that's quite how it is in NYS.
Paul

from http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/bike-vt.htm

Section 1234. Riding on roadways, shoulders, bicycle or in-line skates lanes and bicycle or in-line skates paths.

(a) Upon all roadways, any bicycle or in-line skates shall be driven either on a usable bicycle or in-line skates lane or, if a usable bicycle or in-line skates lane has not been provided, near the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway or upon a usable right-hand shoulder in such a manner as to prevent undue interference with the flow of traffic except when preparing for a left turn or when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions that would make it unsafe to continue along near the right-hand curb or edge. Conditions to be taken into consideration include, but are not limited to, fixed or moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, in-line skates, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards or traffic lanes too narrow for a bicycle or person on in-line skates and a vehicle to travel safely side-by-side within the lane.

Section 1146. Drivers to exercise due care.
Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law to the contrary, every driver of a vehicle shall exercise due care to avoid colliding with any bicyclist, pedestrian or domestic animal upon any roadway and shall give warning by sounding the horn when necessary. For the purposes of this section, the term "domestic animal" shall mean domesticated sheep, cattle and goats which are under the supervision and control of a pedestrian.

(colour and underline mine. As I said, I'm pretty much sure this is a given in any jurisdiction that permits bikes on roads)

jerryf609 · Sep 30, 2009

RichH said:
5 long blasts on a freon powered air horn ought to get their attention.

However, If both boats are on the same tack and you were to windward and the other boat is "pointing higher, etc.".... then you should tack away

I'm a newbie so probably wrong, but I thought it was 5 short blasts, not long.

cat38skip · Sep 30, 2009

It seems to me that the only time to 'push the envelope' on who is the stand on vessel, is when racing. In all other cases, unless there is a issue of safety, I will happily yeild and go on my way. I have occasionally and grudgingly given way to ignorant boaters in both power and sail boats who were obviously clueless as to the 'rules of the road' Why endanger myself, my crew and my boat to make a point to some arrogant, ignorant fool?

jibes138 · Oct 1, 2009

Pushing the Limit

It is also illegal as a violation of the code of federal regulations (CFR) known as the navigation rules. Anyone guilty of doing this should turn themselves in at a local law enforcement agency and throw themselves on the mercy of the courts. You are likely being watched on satellite and it is best if the authorities don't have a big hassle hunting for you.

BobM · Oct 1, 2009

I need to hijack this thread...

...just to get it back ON the subject.

:hijacked:

I looked for a state appropriate reference, but am convinced that the solution to this is that on a navigable river a sailboat does not have right of way across the path of prevailing traffic moving down or up stream. Makes it tough for you guys on a river for sure.

Ron20324 · Oct 1, 2009

BobM, you may be half-right on the river thing. Vessels going with the current are limited in steering abillity, and should be yielded to. Same as when going through a drawbridge. Boats going with the current go through first.

BobM · Oct 2, 2009

Well...it is true in some states...

BobT said:
BobM, I'll adjust my thinking accordingly if you can cite a source for your conviction!

Is MD the applicable state? I tried to figure out which agency would have control over it. It is certainly true for OH, which I did find.
http://www.dnr.state.oh.us/BoatingAreas/OhioRiverBoatingInformation/tabid/2302/Default.aspx
Rules of the Road (OAC 1501.47)

When operating on waters where a current is present:

A vessel heading downstream has right of way over a vessel heading upstream.
Recreational watercraft are sharing the river with large commercial vessels that are confined to a channel. Boaters must yield the right of way to them.
A vessel crossing a river shall keep out of the way of a powerdriven vessel ascending or descending the river.

BobM · Oct 2, 2009

These seems to be relevent too...

...but I can't open it at work

http://www.boatingbasicsonline.com/content/general/6_2_b4.php

When crossing a channel, do so at a right angle and in such a way as to avoid ... the down bound boat (going with the current) has the right of way over a ... Additionally, a boat crossing a designated river shall keep out of the way of ...

Skipper · Oct 4, 2009

Even "sailors" can be knuckleheads

Running at hull speed under full sail, good wind. Knucklehead converging on my course in a 28ish sailboat wrapped up in canvas and motoring along(why not buy a Bayliner?). He's motoring, and on my port. Not giving way. Finally I get close enough to inform him that he is currently a powerboat, etc. He demands right of way because I am "overtaking". I think, "Where's my gun?"

I may have been going slightly faster, but not overtaking. We were at greater than 30 degrees, and he was crossing my bow. In any case, even if I were completed wrong, all he had to do was move his disgusting, snot-nosed fingers a few inches on the tiller. As it ended up, I had to avoid the collision by radically altering course in an unsafe manner against the wind's desires, swishing my rear-end out of Moron's way, subsequently loosing the wind, and only barely missing Knucklehead's bow as he plowed ahead.

Not a sailor. And I let him as such in my most colorful articulation of the subject.

Maybe he bought the sailboat because he thought the mast was a really nice radio antenna.