The Hunter 27 diesel has a 12 gallon capacity.... Would be interesting to compare the Hunter to the Hunter...
Replacing Diesel with Electric Engine
- Thread starter TriSwiss
- Start date
Huh??
Second, the required batteries is not a "like" comparison if the engine requires 4 batteries at 161 pounds per battery. Does that include house bank? (the literature does not clarify) If not, you are comparing the "engine bank" to a "house bank".
I just installed a 2ym15 on a 27' boat so I'm a good comparison. I don't need a house bank to start the engine, I just use a small 25# battery start battery so I would be happy to add that into the equation but I don't actually even need a battery for the engine if I used my house bank of 2 Grp 27 batts at about 75# each or 150 lbs (not 322 lbs.). It can be argued that the house bank need not be included in the "weight comparison".
I'm guessing that the EP-1200 engine NEEDS 644 pounds of batteries to run ... I don't need any battery if I start it off the house bank. That 644 pounds is not a variable weight.
But diesel fuel and fuel capacity on my boat IS variable. I don't need 24 gallons. I have a 11 gallon tank and topping it off is actually just 10 gallons because I use a 5 gallon jug to transfer fuel when 1/2 empty.
How would you compare the fuel for the advertised maximum range of 33 nm? (which is at about 5 knots - advertised).
I've been making notes about the performance of my engine. In smooth water with a clean bottom, I'm making 6 knots easily at 2700 rpm, just about 6.5 knots at 3200 rpm, and very close to 7 knots at 3500 rpm. (I'm more than quite pleased at this performance).
The Yanmar curves indicate that my consumption for 6 knots is about 10.9 nm per gallon conservatively. Likewise, 8.6 kn/gal traveling at 6.5 knots and 7.6 nm/gal traveling at 7 knots (which I only do for brief periods). My comfortable traveling speed is 6.5 knots at less than 85% WOT.
So it seems that I only need 4 gallons of diesel for the maximum range of the EP-1200.
When I'm filled, my tank and fuel weighs just 80 pounds, not 195 pounds. For a comparable range I only need 4 gallons for a total weight of under 40 pounds.
But let's not quibble about weight even tho the real comparison might be something like 900 pounds for the EP-1200 package vs. 321 pounds (ok, we can say 361 pounds when I'm fillled, including my small start batt) for my 2YM15 package.
The real killer is the speed differential. We heard a real life experience of a fellow on a small boat traveling 12 nm at just 3 knots based on the power consumption for just one outing!!!!!
Sue would be calling the CG if that were the case for me being out in the ocean in the dark when I'm not back within a few hours of the anticipated time ... just kidding (possibly). I can't imagine being limited to a speed of 3 knots under engine power for normal circumstances. It's simply not acceptable to me.
It sounds like there is a very limited range, and the compromise is a severe drop-off of speed to extend the range. The range for my set-up is approx. 75 to 100 nm based on a minimum speed of 6 knots, the way I look at it.
The comparable range appears to be less than 30 nm and the speed may be drastically compromised to just 3 knots (based on stated practical experience) to achieve just that.
BTW, where in the world do they come up with the 65 mpg equivalency??
http://www.elcomotoryachts.com/ep-1200.shtml
First, the EP-1200 is advertised at 260 pounds, not 206.
Second, the required batteries is not a "like" comparison if the engine requires 4 batteries at 161 pounds per battery. Does that include house bank? (the literature does not clarify) If not, you are comparing the "engine bank" to a "house bank".
I just installed a 2ym15 on a 27' boat so I'm a good comparison. I don't need a house bank to start the engine, I just use a small 25# battery start battery so I would be happy to add that into the equation but I don't actually even need a battery for the engine if I used my house bank of 2 Grp 27 batts at about 75# each or 150 lbs (not 322 lbs.). It can be argued that the house bank need not be included in the "weight comparison".
I'm guessing that the EP-1200 engine NEEDS 644 pounds of batteries to run ... I don't need any battery if I start it off the house bank. That 644 pounds is not a variable weight.
But diesel fuel and fuel capacity on my boat IS variable. I don't need 24 gallons. I have a 11 gallon tank and topping it off is actually just 10 gallons because I use a 5 gallon jug to transfer fuel when 1/2 empty.
How would you compare the fuel for the advertised maximum range of 33 nm? (which is at about 5 knots - advertised).
I've been making notes about the performance of my engine. In smooth water with a clean bottom, I'm making 6 knots easily at 2700 rpm, just about 6.5 knots at 3200 rpm, and very close to 7 knots at 3500 rpm. (I'm more than quite pleased at this performance).
The Yanmar curves indicate that my consumption for 6 knots is about 10.9 nm per gallon conservatively. Likewise, 8.6 kn/gal traveling at 6.5 knots and 7.6 nm/gal traveling at 7 knots (which I only do for brief periods). My comfortable traveling speed is 6.5 knots at less than 85% WOT.
So it seems that I only need 4 gallons of diesel for the maximum range of the EP-1200.
When I'm filled, my tank and fuel weighs just 80 pounds, not 195 pounds. For a comparable range I only need 4 gallons for a total weight of under 40 pounds.
But let's not quibble about weight even tho the real comparison might be something like 900 pounds for the EP-1200 package vs. 321 pounds (ok, we can say 361 pounds when I'm fillled, including my small start batt) for my 2YM15 package.
The real killer is the speed differential. We heard a real life experience of a fellow on a small boat traveling 12 nm at just 3 knots based on the power consumption for just one outing!!!!!
Sue would be calling the CG if that were the case for me being out in the ocean in the dark when I'm not back within a few hours of the anticipated time ... just kidding (possibly). I can't imagine being limited to a speed of 3 knots under engine power for normal circumstances. It's simply not acceptable to me.
It sounds like there is a very limited range, and the compromise is a severe drop-off of speed to extend the range. The range for my set-up is approx. 75 to 100 nm based on a minimum speed of 6 knots, the way I look at it.
The comparable range appears to be less than 30 nm and the speed may be drastically compromised to just 3 knots (based on stated practical experience) to achieve just that.
BTW, where in the world do they come up with the 65 mpg equivalency??
http://www.elcomotoryachts.com/ep-1200.shtml
Interesting bunch of comments. As an ex auto tech, in a previous life, who worked on a lot of German diesels, I love a nice running diesel. I'd never think of removing the 1GM10 in our boat and replacing it with electric cause I think part of the boat's soul would be lost I love that little motor. It doesn't stink, and the only time I've noticed any fuel odor is right after I've replaced filters and bled the lines. It's totally dependable, ridiculously efficient, and just runs and runs without a hiccup,
That said, I love my solar charging system and use it for what it does best...charging up our batteries. We don't have or need shore power and like the independence, but don't have the desire or room on the boat to try to put enough solar panels on to try to power a motor.
As far as using the motor, I've found that sometimes, when the the wind is very light, to have a happy wife, I need to use the motor. Not that we can't sail the rest of the way in, but life has schedules for us and other things to get done. A day or even a part of a day out on the water, broken up by motor sailing or straight motoring, is far better than no time out on the water. We use our boat a lot, and at the end of the year, it's rare that I've filled our 6 gal fuel tank more than twice. No guilt here, when I fire that motor up.
Being in a technical job myself, I think the new battery, electric motor, and hybrid technology these days is pretty cool. Just not for me, and certainly not cost effective, in my case. I get enough high tech stuff at work...I'll take my low tech diesel when I'm out on the water and need to motor. And yes, we'd much rather use the sails.
I love that little motor. It doesn't stink, and the only time I've noticed any fuel odor is right after I've replaced filters and bled the lines. It's totally dependable, ridiculously efficient, and just runs and runs without a hiccup,That said, I love my solar charging system and use it for what it does best...charging up our batteries. We don't have or need shore power and like the independence, but don't have the desire or room on the boat to try to put enough solar panels on to try to power a motor.
As far as using the motor, I've found that sometimes, when the the wind is very light, to have a happy wife, I need to use the motor. Not that we can't sail the rest of the way in, but life has schedules for us and other things to get done. A day or even a part of a day out on the water, broken up by motor sailing or straight motoring, is far better than no time out on the water. We use our boat a lot, and at the end of the year, it's rare that I've filled our 6 gal fuel tank more than twice. No guilt here, when I fire that motor up.
Being in a technical job myself, I think the new battery, electric motor, and hybrid technology these days is pretty cool. Just not for me, and certainly not cost effective, in my case. I get enough high tech stuff at work...I'll take my low tech diesel when I'm out on the water and need to motor. And yes, we'd much rather use the sails.
Last week a customer canceled on me at the last minute. It was 12:15 PM and I was 40 yards from my boat. Within a few minutes I was under sail. Sure I could have moved onto my next customer in the queue but part of being self employed are the little treats like this last minute cancellation.. The sky was crisp blue with dry fall like air. The breeze solid & very steady so I just kept sailing.
At about 3:00 PM I received a txt from my wife saying she and my daughter were going be home late due to some back to school shopping up in Freeport. By now I was blasting along in the mid sevens heading towards Spain, so I just kept going. I texted back for her to take my daughter to her favorite restaurant after shopping, you know make an evening of it, and I would figure out dinner on my own..
The sailing was so good I rode it until the wind died to glass calm, because I could... When my boat speed dropped to 1.2 knots I tacked and battled the drain tide for a bit but Mother Nature had her own plans. Pretty soon I was down to .3 knots SOG. I fired up the Japanese genny, put on some Miles Davis and headed for the mooring. I had sailed a bit over 20 miles out to sea and exhausted every last bit of wind the day had to offer me.
I had no qualms about blasting back to the mooring at over 7 knots and I just barely made it back in time to catch the last 9:00 launch... If exhausting every last ounce of wind for the day makes me less of a real sailor so be it. If I had to rely on a 3 knot cruise speed that day I would have had less sailing time and would have missed some truly outstanding sailing. My Japanese genny allowed me one of the best sails I have had all season.... But yeah I guess I am just not a "real sailor" because I ran my engine...
At about 3:00 PM I received a txt from my wife saying she and my daughter were going be home late due to some back to school shopping up in Freeport. By now I was blasting along in the mid sevens heading towards Spain, so I just kept going. I texted back for her to take my daughter to her favorite restaurant after shopping, you know make an evening of it, and I would figure out dinner on my own..
The sailing was so good I rode it until the wind died to glass calm, because I could... When my boat speed dropped to 1.2 knots I tacked and battled the drain tide for a bit but Mother Nature had her own plans. Pretty soon I was down to .3 knots SOG. I fired up the Japanese genny, put on some Miles Davis and headed for the mooring. I had sailed a bit over 20 miles out to sea and exhausted every last bit of wind the day had to offer me.
I had no qualms about blasting back to the mooring at over 7 knots and I just barely made it back in time to catch the last 9:00 launch... If exhausting every last ounce of wind for the day makes me less of a real sailor so be it. If I had to rely on a 3 knot cruise speed that day I would have had less sailing time and would have missed some truly outstanding sailing. My Japanese genny allowed me one of the best sails I have had all season.... But yeah I guess I am just not a "real sailor" because I ran my engine...
- Dec 30, 2009
- 680
I love my beta diesel it does not smell, I am in the nj/ny area raritan bay-ny harbor, i am fighting tide all the time, my tank 1977 jeanneau tippin scales at 18k would go backwards with an electric motor. I had 2 weeks off work and went to block island, with the prevailing winds and tides I had to motorsail almoost all the way. I think practically, we are a ways off yet, not sayin it can,t be done. As for comparing cars to boats, try pushing one of those hybrids through 8' of water..Red
Most of the hardcore racers seem to motor to and from the different regattas. I watch so many sailboats motor back into Boston Harbor even when there is more than sufficient wind.
In my personal view, I find motoring a bit like "cheating". But my goal is to be sailing and practice my sailing skills, so I have adopted the "purist" mode of thought. (Notice I said my "personal" view.)
But I have also motored back in when the wind calms and I needed to make a schedule of if I am tired. So far my electric motor has been more than sufficient...
In my personal view, I find motoring a bit like "cheating". But my goal is to be sailing and practice my sailing skills, so I have adopted the "purist" mode of thought. (Notice I said my "personal" view.)
But I have also motored back in when the wind calms and I needed to make a schedule of if I am tired. So far my electric motor has been more than sufficient...
I'm leaving tomorrow for a regatta at 6am and we have a start at about 10:30. Given the boat owners desire not to use his precious job, or wish to carry another jib, we won't make it to the start under the main alone. There are all kinds of reasons sailboats use their auxiliaries. Maybe the racers there want to get home for dinner with their families. Or maybe they are tired of sailing. Why is it of concern to you?
Its not important how we use our boat, whether its the engine or the sail or a combination of the two. Hell, I'v even tried using a paddle on the 40' when there was no wind and I couldn't get the motor working. People drove past me laughing the head off watching me hanging over the bow of the boat trying to move a 26000 lbs boat with a paddle.
In the end of the we are all fortunate to be on the water. Besides, as sailers we can show motor boaters we have the best of both worlds.
The intention of this thread was to see what everyone thought about the viability of EP (electric engines) and share some stories.
Fair winds to all - and cheap diesel.
In the end of the we are all fortunate to be on the water. Besides, as sailers we can show motor boaters we have the best of both worlds.
The intention of this thread was to see what everyone thought about the viability of EP (electric engines) and share some stories.
Fair winds to all - and cheap diesel.
Egads!
I simply stated an observation of what I see others doing. It may not be a "concern", but it does arouse my curiosity.
I also said that even though in my "purist" sailing mode I try to sail most everywhere, there are times I do pull down the sails and motor. I already admitted to doing what I have observed others doing.
For my own goals, I want to become a better sailor so I use my time on the water to practice sailing in all conditions. When I do switch to using my motor, I get a feeling of "giving up" but I know it is usually a good decision in spite of that feeling.
A motor and sufficient fuel can allow us to do various things unthinkable a hundred years ago. We've become accustomed to using motors to get to places quickly. That in itself is not bad.
But when I slip into my "purist sailor" mode, I partially slip back into an older time that one selectively thinks of as being more relaxed and gentler. Fortunately, I do have my electric motor that does have a significant amount of technology to keep me out of trouble in windless (or very windy) times.
It works for me. That is all I intended.
But when someone chimes in and questions an observation shouldn't be my concern, well I just get that much more curious. What might that person be hiding...
:stirthepot: