Repairing Aluminum winch drums?

[pateco]

OK, so the Stargazer still has her original Barlow 2 speed winches from 1983. I have been saving up to replace them with self tailers, but other projects keep sucking up the boat bucks. A couple of weeks ago I noticed a small crack in the top of the port winch's drum. I couldnt see much as they have Barton Winchers on them, but it seemed minor, and with replacements on the horizon I ignored it.

Last night during our beercan race, I noticed that the crack had enlarged. I also inspected the starboard winch, and noticed that it too had a small crack in the top of the drum.

So now I am in a pickle as the funds for the new/used winches are not there. I am thinking of trying to repair the old drums. Here is my plan:

1. Remove the Barton Winchers from the drum for better inspection.
2. Disassemble winches
3. Drill relief to stop the crack from expanding.
4. Dremel a bevel along the crack.
5. Heat the drum with Map Gas torch.
6. Fill/repair the crack(s) with Alumiweld Low Temperature Aluminum Welding Rods
7. Grind/sand smooth
8. Reassemble the cleaned and serviced winch parts

This is what that would look like.

Stop the crack:


Weld it closed.

Do you think this will work? Any other Ideas?

 

[markwesti]

1-8 except for 6 . I'm not calling your ability , if it were me I would take it to a weld shop . I would think that if you do all the prep work the welders price should be easy to live with .

 

[MisterR6]

Technically that is brazing, a mig or tig weld would be stronger. If you go that route please keep us posted, as I am curious how strong that repair would be. I agree with markwesti on it being reasonable at a weld shop. Best of luck whichever way you go.

 

[Jackdaw]

A winch applies its torque to the BOTTOM of the drum. The roller bearings on the spindle hold it in position. The top is really under no appreciable load. If you effect a decent repair it should be OK. Unless something else is going on.

 

[thinwater]

A winch applies its torque to the BOTTOM of the drum. The roller bearings on the spindle hold it in position. The top is really under no appreciable load. If you effect a decent repair it should be OK. Unless something else is going on.

That was my thought. I was hoping someone would suggest the cause. I was also hoping someone would chime in whether this was at ALL common. To have two of them crack in the same location is baffling.

 

[pateco]

I will try to take some pictures this evening. It was too dark by the time we got back to the dock last night.

 

[LeslieTroyer]

Using map and Al welding rods takes lots of practice not to blow big holes. And it is welding not brazing, as you melt both base and filler metals.

Les

 

[pateco]

Using map and Al welding rods takes lots of practice not to blow big holes. And it is welding not brazing, as you melt both base and filler metals.

Les

I believe the Alumiweld Rods are actually a brazing solution only requiring ≈ 720° https://www.alumiweld.com/

• Stronger than aluminum
  
  
• Harder than mild steel
  
  
• Non-toxic to humans
  • 
    
• Low working temperature
  
  
• No flux or fumes
  
  
• Excellent corrosion resistance
  
  
• Low cost
  
  
• Repairs approximately inch for inch, as little as five cents per inch
  
  
• Minimize problems of distortion and loss of tensile strength

 

[isaksp00]

I tried some of that aluminum rod on a small crack on a seam in a Sears jon boat. I used a propane torch, as it was all I had and was supposed to work with those rods. It did not work too well, as I suspect the surrounding aluminum conducted the heat away too rapidly. Given that a winch drum has even more mass, I suspect this will be an issue for you. Once these are disassembled I agree that paying a welder to do it (I assume it is a 10 min job) should be well worth it.

 

[pateco]

I tried some of that aluminum rod on a small crack on a seam in a Sears jon boat. I used a propane torch, as it was all I had and was supposed to work with those rods. It did not work too well, as I suspect the surrounding aluminum conducted the heat away too rapidly. Given that a winch drum has even more mass, I suspect this will be an issue for you. Once these are disassembled I agree that paying a welder to do it (I assume it is a 10 min job) should be well worth it.

I was planning on heating the whole drum to ≈ 650° in my gas grill on high, and then using a map-gas torch to bring the work area up to the specified ≈ 720°

 

[isaksp00]

It may work, Chip, but unless you already have the materials and MAP torch, and if there is a weld/metal shop near you, check what they will charge. If you have to buy the torch etc. it may actually be less expensive to have it done by a pro. Unless you want the torch anyway.

 

[pateco]

It may work, Chip, but unless you already have the materials and MAP torch, and if there is a weld/metal shop near you, check what they will charge. If you have to buy the torch etc. it may actually be less expensive to have it done by a pro. Unless you want the torch anyway.

I have the torch, and the rods are just $15 for a pack of eight locally. If I don't like how it turns out, I can always take it to the welder.

I didn't get by the boat last night, but I may try to go by during lunch today to get some pics.

 

[pateco]

I went to the boat for some further investigation. Below is what the two winches look like from the top with the winchers still on.


I cut the wincher off of the worst one (port) and I now have a bigger problem.

After removing the wincher, I now believe that the top section of the drum is actually some sort of plastic. I know there are no parts available for Barlow anymore. So now I either have to figure out how to repair the plastic, or I need to buy some new winches.

 

[pateco]

I just searched around on the web for pics of other Barlow 23 winches, and found this pic of a chrome one.

It is definitely a plastic top.

 

[Davidasailor26]

I went to the boat for some further investigation. Below is what the two winches look like from the top with the winchers still on.
View attachment 154211 View attachment 154212

I cut the wincher off of the worst one (port) and I now have a bigger problem.

View attachment 154213
View attachment 154214

After removing the wincher, I now believe that the top section of the drum is actually some sort of plastic. I know there are no parts available for Barlow anymore. So now I either have to figure out how to repair the plastic, or I need to buy some new winches.

Same thing happened to the tops of the Barlow winches on our O'Day. You're right, those parts are plastic. Not really structural, just there to keep the line from slipping off the top of the drum. I started sheeting in once and wasn't careful, and the sheet popped the cracked top off the drum, naturally falling overboard.

This was about 15 years ago and I was able to get replacements from some place I think was called the Australian Winch Company, which stocked replacement Barlow and Barient parts. Looks like now they might be associated with http://www.huttonwinches.com/products/spares so maybe call them and see if they have that part.

 

[kloudie1]

If you can remove the plastic part, you could have them replicated locally at a machine shop.. If they are press fit, the drum would have to be brought in as well.. They could be done in aluminum or brass or a plastic like Delrin.. a good shop could knock out as couple ..

 

[jviss]

If you can remove the plastic part, you could have them replicated locally at a machine shop.. If they are press fit, the drum would have to be brought in as well.. They could be done in aluminum or brass or a plastic like Delrin.. a good shop could knock out as couple ..

That's certainly true, would be curious about the cost. But at some point, one could find a pair of winches on eBay at a pretty reasonable price, for which parts are currently available, I would guess.

What size are these winches in question?

Pair of Lewmar non-self tailing 30's on eBay now for $120 buy it now.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lewmar-30-...w=lewmar+winch&_from=R40&rt=nc&LH_TitleDesc=0

 

[dLj]

Unless you can make replacement parts yourself, it will likely cost you as much or more than replacing them with second hand winches from eBay or other source. It may be difficult to find delrin stock as large as you need for those tops, and it won't be cheap. How about some kind of adhesive/filler to fill the current gap waiting until you have the $'s to buy the winches you want? Would JV weld work on that material?

Tough one...

dj

 

[capta]

Looks like a perfect job for one of the 3D printers that have sprung up all over the place.

 

[Ken Cross]

You may want to check out some of the many boat wrecking yards (for lack of a better name) and look for the self tailing winches you have been wanting. The eBay suggestion also sounds good.

Ken