Reef lines jam in blocks when reefing

[jssailem]

currently using a hook at th tack, and a reefing line on the clew. Much simpler line routing, and I think a way better reef.

With this quote. While I understand the allure Of being able to reef with a single line, the design of the system must be able to reduce the friction of the single line working on two ends of the sail. This is a difficult task to get right. There are dangers in damage to the sail or the rig if the crew resorts to using a winch to overcome the friction stopping the reef from being made.

 

[DougM]

The trick to getting a single line reef to work smoothly is somewhat dependent on being sure that the halyard is slackened enough before tightening the reef line, and then tightening the halyard.
Granted, my boat has sewn in blocks at the reef points which reduces friction and the line layout tends to draw the clew point down and keeps aft tension on it after the tack end is home. I typically wrap the reef line around the winch to tighten but don’t necessarily use a winch handle.

 

[skunther]

t

It looks like the blocks don’t swivel with the boom so maybe the line tends to jam if the boom is off to one side, as may be the case while reefing?

They jam when reefing, not when shaking out the reef. The boom position affects the opposite side of the block when shaking out the reed, which has not been a problem.

 

[skunther]

Are they adding purchase? Might be better to first ascertain why they are there.

They’re there to lead the lines from the tack properly into the boom sheaves. The lines can only enter the boom from below, and so must be run through a block below the boom.

 

[skunther]

I have those same blocks on my mast, and I think that they are required (or something similar) to reroute the lines as they come down from the tack cringle If you are sing single line reefing. You can’t run them into the boom from above…so they run down to the block, reverse direction and go up into the boom neck.

A couple of blocks at the bottom of the mast way work better if you have room, but I don’t know why the current blocks wouldn’t work.

I have gone back and forth on single line reefing, currently using a hook at th tack, and a reefing line on the clew. Much simpler line routing, and I think a way better reef. Yes, I have to go to the mast to put in or shake out the reef, but I don’t mind that..I usually put in the reef before I leave the dock if I am in doubt.

Greg

Is your setup fairly identical to mine, spacing wise between the offending block and the tack cringle? Have you had any similar issues with that block jamming when reefing? If not, it may be my simplest solution is to replace the reefing lines. Would smaller diameter lines be inadvisable in my case?

 

[jssailem]

Would smaller diameter lines be inadvisable in my case?

Not at all.
One size smaller would not affect anything as a detractor.

Remember, you are using the reef lines to hold the sail in place not to trim or adjust a sail full that is under pressure.

It would permit the line to more easily run fair through the blocks that have been giving you the issue.

 

[Tally Ho]

Is your setup fairly identical to mine, spacing wise between the offending block and the tack cringle? Have you had any similar issues with that block jamming when reefing? If not, it may be my simplest solution is to replace the reefing lines. Would smaller diameter lines be inadvisable in my case?

Mine is fairly close to your set up.
But you have more lines running into the boom…I only have 2…1 for each reef. Not sure why that is.

I don’t have a great pic, but this may give you an idea.


On my tack cringe, I put a small block..


I don’t have any blocks in my boom…maybe that is the difference. And why I find using a reef hook at the mast, and a single line running to the back of the sail.

New lines would certainly run a bit smoother, especially if the old ones are stiff and tired (but they don’t look bad in the photos). Hard to tell if they are sized correctly for the sheaves.

Greg

 

[skunther]

Refreshing this, as we’ve had other projects that took priority. Washing the lines seems a relatively easy first thing to try. However, the lines do route through the boom, and I would have no idea how to re rig them once removed. Can I attach another line to the end to route through the rigging and leave as a placeholder that I can simply reverse the process in order to rerun the reef lines, once cleaned?

 

[dlochner]

Refreshing this, as we’ve had other projects that took priority. Washing the lines seems a relatively easy first thing to try. However, the lines do route through the boom, and I would have no idea how to re rig them once removed. Can I attach another line to the end to route through the rigging and leave as a placeholder that I can simply reverse the process in order to rerun the reef lines, once cleaned?

It is called a messenger line. Use any small diameter line attach it by sewing and taping and then pull it through. I have some 3mm Dacron or 3/16" braided dacron flag halyard line. Polyester line is better than nylon because it doesn't stretch. Sometimes the connection will get hung up and a nylon messenger line will stretch rather than pull the halyard through.

 

[skunther]

I believe your problem stems from the lines not leading in at the proper angle. You want a fair lead into the block so the line stays on the sheive at all times.

The lines are properly sized (rigging specs call for 3/8”). I will wash these. I would also like to install a fairlead as @capt aj says. The outer edges of the sheaves in the offending block are 1 1/4” apart, which indicates to me that should be the width of the fairlead. I am having trouble finding a fairlead that would work though. It needs to attach to the mast (clearly). I can drill and tap it, or could mount on the track (if such a fairlead exists). Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[skunther]

If spec is 3/8”, is it inadvisable to switch to 5/16”?

 

[Foswick]

No, that size down, alone, would not be a problem, especially not for a reefing line. Make sure that any clutches or cleats are fine with the smaller diameter. Can and jam cleats generally will be fine with this small step down but certain clutches might slip with the smaller diameter (though I would not expect this).

If you plan on sailing in heavier weather, you might not want to size down, as the line stretch of the smaller diameter might be an issue. But, it is isn't unreasonable.

What would be the motivation?

 

[jssailem]

5/16 polyester reef line on a 35 ft boat is not a problem. That is what I am using on my 252 sqft main. I manage my reef at the mast so the functions are direct in how the reefing and line handling is accomplished.

You have 314 sqft of main sail. Bigger sails may require larger line.

It sounds like you are thinking about managing the line handling from the cockpit. This can add a layer of line friction to your rigging. You might find that the feel of the 5/16 line is smallish when trying to pull against a sail that is still drawing.

Be attentive to your block sizes as you select the line size for your rigging.

 

[Joe]

If spec is 3/8”, is it inadvisable to switch to 5/16”?

First, the "spec" for size is based on the recreation quality cordage that production boat builders package with their new boats. So you should be more concerned with strength limits and job requirements, and compatibility with the hardware. As those lines age out in the sun and weather, they're going to swell and stiffen so they won't run as freely as they should. Going a bit smaller would reduce the increased friction.... as long as the new lines are consistent with the recommended working loads and they fit the boat's hardware. Always check for fitment first. All the online chandleries will have strength charts for the rope products they sell.
I have downsized many lines on my boat by replacing the fatties with sleek high tech cordage that runs smoothly through the blocks. Just make sure the new lines fit in the hardware and, of course, your hands.
So.... don't just replace..... UPGRADE to a higher quality line of a smaller size. The smaller size will offset the higher unit price.

One other comment: You might explore options to replace that very restrictive double block on the mast that seems to be the source of your problem. I'd like to see it in operation before conjuring up a solution. But I'm sure there is a sensible one... after all.. these systems are really pretty basic... keeping it simple should always be the goal. Good luck.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Joe's post above is spot-on. Replace the lines with smaller diameter, higher strength line. That doesn't mean you have to choose the highest cost, most high-tech line. There are multiple options to replace the basic double braid polyester builder-spec line.

By all means, think outside the box and maybe replace that clunky assembly with fixed sheaths. You don't have to keep or replace in-kind the builder's bad choices. You can make improvements that increase your sailing proficiency! Those fixed blocks mounted so close to the mast look like a bad idea to me. See how easily they pinch the lines? At the very least, you could remove the assembly and fix some sort of spacer (washers or nuts between the mast and the flanges) to provide more room for the lines, but I would favor an option to install blocks that can swivel sufficiently to improve the fairlead angle. Without seeing your entire assembly, we can't possibly know what components are necessary, not necessary, or easily modified. There are countless reefing configurations, so no solution can be universal.

 

[skunther]

I was just thinking more spacers behind the block might be the simplest solution, but a better block system might be a better choice.

Does anyone have any suggestions for a better double block, possibly with integrated fairleads, that I could install?

Also, I have tried to remove the screw mounts on this fairlead, and they seem potentially seized to the mast. Any recommendations on freeing those up? PB Blaster and an impact driver?

 

[fred1diver]

To remove seized bolts on my boom, my buddy showed me a simple trick that surprisingly worked.

put the screwdriver on the screw and hit it hard enough with a hammer, it freed up my fasteners.

 

[skunther]

PB blaster and an impact driver did it. For reinstalling them, should I use TEF or Locktite? Or maybe instead 3M4000? Not sure what’s best for securing the block to the mast. It seems whoever installed may have used a combo of 3M sealant and TEF.