Raymarine Wheel drive autopilot on Hunter boat- to upgrade?

[jviss]

That makes sense what you wrote about the Edson Quadrant, I asked Edson & they dont suggest to connect AP arm directly to their Quadrant which they make in cast Aluminum & Bronze.
What do you think of Jefa Quadrants

Interesting link. I hadn't heard of Jefa. Not that in this pic and caption, they are basically combining a quadrant and a tiller arm:

"The best way to add an autopilot connection to the quadrant is an additional autopilot arm welded to the boss."

I am a bit of a traditionalist, I like the separate, forged bronze tiller arm Edson provides. (No welds, etc.)

But I get it, if you can't fit it, the Jefa might make sense.

 

[capt.amory]

It looks like a replacement quadrant, made with the auto pilot connection point would be the way to go.

You don’t have room for a separate tiller arm, and Edson doesn’t recommend attaching directly to their quadrant…

Greg

you have a way of simplifying things ;D much appreciated. now where can I find a strong quadrant that can handle the torque generated by a Raymarine type 1 mechanical arm?

 

[capt.amory]

Interesting link. I hadn't heard of Jefa. Not that in this pic and caption, they are basically combining a quadrant and a tiller arm:

View attachment 204731

"The best way to add an autopilot connection to the quadrant is an additional autopilot arm welded to the boss."

I am a bit of a traditionalist, I like the separate, forged bronze tiller arm Edson provides. (No welds, etc.)

View attachment 204732

But I get it, if you can't fit it, the Jefa might make sense.

Nice touch on the pictures :-D I too never heard of Jefa! either way, I sent them replacement inquiry to change my cast-aluminum Edson Quadrant, Edson calls it a Radial Drive wheel

Yes, nice photo ..Edson makes those Tiller arms to connect to the rudder shaft. I need access to my rudder shaft to attach it. I dont have that access, if you see pictures from original post

 

[Tally Ho]

you have a way of simplifying things ;D much appreciated. now where can I find a strong quadrant that can handle the torque generated by a Raymarine type 1 mechanical arm?

I was referring to the Jefa….i didn’t read the specs, but it looks pretty beefy.

Greg

 

[jrussnogle]

Unless you’re just determined to spend a lot of money, I’d check with the Raymarine tech staff to see if they can’t help you with the EV100. Properly installed there’s no reason it shouldn’t hold a steady course in a 15 mph wind. I’ve got one on my S2 9.2C, 10,000 lbs bare, no idea what it weighs with everything added. It sails like running on a rail in 25 mph winds. It’s my understanding that most autopilots have issues with following seas. Particularly in low winds. Adding a rudder position sensor would help. The tech staff at Raymarine is excellent. A free phone call could save you a lot of money and time.

 

[Johann]

Unless you’re just determined to spend a lot of money, I’d check with the Raymarine tech staff to see if they can’t help you with the EV100. Properly installed there’s no reason it shouldn’t hold a steady course in a 15 mph wind. I’ve got one on my S2 9.2C, 10,000 lbs bare, no idea what it weighs with everything added. It sails like running on a rail in 25 mph winds. It’s my understanding that most autopilots have issues with following seas. Particularly in low winds. Adding a rudder position sensor would help. The tech staff at Raymarine is excellent. A free phone call could save you a lot of money and time.

For whatever reason, the H336 has a pretty heavy helm for its size. I had new wiring, good voltage, rudder sensor, etc. Had several conversations with Raymarine techs (agree they are good!), tried different settings…. They tested the unit and put in a new motor, updated the computer, but still the wheel pilot could not handle the boat for very long, even just motoring. When I finally gave up and put in the Octopus below deck drive it was fantastic.

EDIT: I have read where one Hunter owner with a boat of the H336 era added area to the front of the rudder to reduce helm pressure. This could be an option

 

[tractorguy]

I managed to install a Garmin compact B linear drive in my Hunter 356. It was a tight fit but with a little engineering it works great. I made my own tiller arm out of 3/16 aluminum plate that attached to the original tiller arm. See attached pic. I realize this was a little overkill, however the Raymarine auto helm was unacceptable for me. I would be happy to answer any questions
Tractorguy

 

[jrussnogle]

For whatever reason, the H336 has a pretty heavy helm for its size. I had new wiring, good voltage, rudder sensor, etc. Had several conversations with Raymarine techs (agree they are good!), tried different settings…. They tested the unit and put in a new motor, updated the computer, but still the wheel pilot could not handle the boat for very long, even just motoring. When I finally gave up and put in the Octopus below deck drive it was fantastic.

EDIT: I have read where one Hunter owner with a boat of the H336 era added area to the front of the rudder to reduce helm pressure. This could be an option

Interesting. Thank you for the explanation.

 

[capt.amory]

Unless you’re just determined to spend a lot of money, I’d check with the Raymarine tech staff to see if they can’t help you with the EV100. Properly installed there’s no reason it shouldn’t hold a steady course in a 15 mph wind. I’ve got one on my S2 9.2C, 10,000 lbs bare, no idea what it weighs with everything added. It sails like running on a rail in 25 mph winds. It’s my understanding that most autopilots have issues with following seas. Particularly in low winds. Adding a rudder position sensor would help. The tech staff at Raymarine is excellent. A free phone call could save you a lot of money and time.

For last 2 months, am in email communication with Raymarine tech support, they suggested replacing gear motor & other parts. am working on ordering them. surely fixing the wheel drive is the cheapest. I have seen other boats with higher or same displacement as my Hunter driven by wheel drive AP.

 

[capt.amory]

Interesting. Thank you for the explanation.

That is an interesting story, am currently going through the Raymarine tech support portal & they also suggested replacing a new motor, its $70 so I bought it, will instal it & report back on here, if it can hold course better. am also installing a rudder sensor so lets see...

how do you like Octopus below deck drive over the Raymarine Type 1 linear drive? did you need access to the rudder shaft to install a below deck drive? Here lays my problem. I dont have access to the bare rudder shaft.

 

[Johann]

That is an interesting story, am currently going through the Raymarine tech support portal & they also suggested replacing a new motor, its $70 so I bought it, will instal it & report back on here, if it can hold course better. am also installing a rudder sensor so lets see...

how do you like Octopus below deck drive over the Raymarine Type 1 linear drive? did you need access to the rudder shaft to install a below deck drive? Here lays my problem. I dont have access to the bare rudder shaft.

The rudder sensor will help some for sure. But after awhile, I think the motor gets hot and just can’t keep up with the loads. I can’t compare the Octopus to the Raymarine linear since I only had the Octopus. But I have no complaints on the Octopus. I looked at both and I think either will work, but choose it because of the lower maximum force… since my addition to the quadrant was unconventIonal. This discussion reminded me of someone who added maybe an inch to the leading edge of his rudder, and then could steer with his fingers. That could help wheelpilot. On this board somewhere if you search…

 

[Johann]

Here it is, on an H376

Rudder on H376

The helm has always been a problem on my 1996 H376. Racing crew seem to always complain about weather-helm. The auto-pilot (Raymarine type 1 rotary drive Smart Pilot - same as ST 6000) would get overpowered on strong gusts when having the sails set for the normal winds, causing me to have to...

forums.sailboatowners.com

 

[jviss]

This discussion reminded me of someone who added maybe an inch to the leading edge of his rudder, and then could steer with his fingers. That could help wheelpilot. On this board somewhere if you search…

Brilliant mod. People of know of balanced rudders for a long time, perhaps the designer of this Hunter did not, or just got it wrong.

 

[capt.amory]

The rudder sensor will help some for sure. But after awhile, I think the motor gets hot and just can’t keep up with the loads. I can’t compare the Octopus to the Raymarine linear since I only had the Octopus. But I have no complaints on the Octopus. I looked at both and I think either will work, but choose it because of the lower maximum force… since my addition to the quadrant was unconventIonal. This discussion reminded me of someone who added maybe an inch to the leading edge of his rudder, and then could steer with his fingers. That could help wheelpilot. On this board somewhere if you search…

I think the Raymarine Wheel drive motor & gears are not strong enough & they over heat. Another autopilot solution that claims to resolve this unreliability problem is the CPT autopilot; despite of being another wheel drive AP, It claims by customer testimonies to be reliable to steer heavy displacement boats.

Wondering if anyone has some experience with the CPT wheel drive autopilot System

 

[jssailem]

I think the Raymarine Wheel drive motor & gears are not strong enough

The Raymarine EV100 series AP has it’s limitations. All systems req some form of compromise. Only the boat owner can truly decide what is acceptable.

The CPT system is a good system. It is more robust. It costs about 80% more. It has exposed moving mechanical systems in the cockpit that can endanger the user.

 

[dLj]

I think the Raymarine Wheel drive motor & gears are not strong enough & they over heat. Another autopilot solution that claims to resolve this unreliability problem is the CPT autopilot; despite of being another wheel drive AP, It claims by customer testimonies to be reliable to steer heavy displacement boats.

Wondering if anyone has some experience with the CPT wheel drive autopilot System

I've used the CPT system. Quite like it and it's robust. Doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles. I like that others may not.

dj

 

[MikeHoncho]

I’ve had my CPT for a couple years now and have been very happy with its performance. Open components have not been a issue at all. The only issue I have with it is the clutch can be difficult to reach down to disengage when hinge get a little hanky.

 

[jviss]

when hinge get a little hanky.

?

 

[kappykaplan]

?

things, I think.

 

[jviss]

things, I think.

I guess he meant "things get a little hinky," as in precarious or unreliable.