Power buffer recommendations, anyone?

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Sep 1, 2012
5
Catalina 27 Herring Bay
The gel coat on my boat has little faint black specks all over it, especially in the cockpit and cabin top, which I am guessing is oxidation (the previous owner apparently didn't use or maintain the boat for several years). The hull was chalky when I bought the boat, and since had a detailer correct that problem.

I recently read a great book about boat cleaning/maintenance called "Boat Cleaning and Detailing" by Natalie Sears, and I am feeling ready to try to tackle this gel coat oxidation myself rather than spend the money hiring someone.

Does anyone have a recommendation for power buffers that they like/own?

Thanks!

Kristian
 
Oct 1, 2008
148
Bavaria 36 Cruiser Nanaimo, BC
Makita 9227C

The above machine is great, but you have to be careful as it is a rotary machine and as such, can burn the gelcoat if you stay in one place too long or operate it at too high an RPM.
See the post I have attached for some great info on the topic of gel coat maintenance.

http://forums.sbo.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117266
I use Mainsail's system and get compliments every year at haulout. I even had professional detailers say that they thought my hull looked better at the start of haulout (before I worked on it) than almost all other boats do after the owner has done his own detailing.
Thanks Mainsail!:D
Tom
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
The black spots are normally an indication of mold. If you can find LA Totally Awesome (Dollar Store or Walmart) give it a try.

You will want to put a good coat of wax on the gelcoat after you get it clean which should help with future mold build up too.

You may also want to try the Island Girl Products to help seal the gelcoat before you wax it.

http://www.islandgirlproducts.com/press.html
 
Nov 22, 2011
1,249
Ericson 26-2 San Pedro, CA
The gel coat on my boat has little faint black specks all over it, especially in the cockpit and cabin top, which I am guessing is oxidation (the previous owner apparently didn't use or maintain the boat for several years). The hull was chalky when I bought the boat, and since had a detailer correct that problem.

I recently read a great book about boat cleaning/maintenance called "Boat Cleaning and Detailing" by Natalie Sears, and I am feeling ready to try to tackle this gel coat oxidation myself rather than spend the money hiring someone.

Does anyone have a recommendation for power buffers that they like/own?

Thanks!

Kristian
On many boats there is a black/dark undercoat beneath the gelcoat. The manufacturer adds this in order to keep light from shining through the hull. (Not that such light would harm anything but some people might be freaked by that.) If you walk around your marina and look at 70's vintage boats where the gelcoat has become thin from years of waxing and oxidation you'll commonly see these dark areas.

I'm not saying for certain that's what you are seeing, especially since you describe the dark portions as "specks." But I just thought I'd throw this out, because if that's what the black portions are and you try to eliminate them by rubbing them out with rubbing compound, you'll only make the problem worse.
 

JRacer

.
Aug 9, 2011
1,360
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
Check on autogeek.net I have a Makita, but orbital, as well and their foam pads work very well varying the degree of cut versus polish. Get the Pinnacle pad cleaner and lube as well and the pads will give you years of life.
 
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Erieau

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Apr 3, 2009
209
Oday 25 Erieau
Black spots = pin holes in the gelcoat.
I have the same problem on my deck. I used Totally Awesome to soak the black crud out of the holes, then polished with a cheapie Simoniz polisher from Canadian Tire, then several coats of wax. The deepest pinholes are still there, but the wax is keeping the black crap from re-accumulating.
 

kenn

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Apr 18, 2009
1,271
CL Sandpiper 565 Toronto
Our neglected 30 year old gelcoat required the whole MaineSail treatment, including wet-sanding, to get through the oxidation to the original colour. Pressure-washing also helped. Once we got down to it, some polishing and waxing has made the gelcoat more resistant to accumulating dirt, and the seasonal wash is now much easier too.
 
Mar 19, 2013
75
Beneteau First 38 Chicago
We bought the Shurhold and I'm very happy with it. You can buy scrub brushes for it to do the tough stuff.
 
Jul 25, 2007
320
-Irwin -Citation 40 Wilmington, NC
I have been building and repairing boats for 40 years now and have never known of a builder to add black or dark colored gelcoat. I am guessing what you see in thin gelcoat is just the resin below the gelcoat that can look black or very dark in color. If a builder wants to block light from coming through they will spray gelcoat on the inside after the final layup. Just thought I would set the record straight on the one. As for a buffer I use a cheap one I get from Harbor Freight. http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html
The pros like to use a Makita buffer but for the average boat owner I see little point in spending that kind of money
 

caguy

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Sep 22, 2006
4,004
Catalina, Luger C-27, Adventure 30 Marina del Rey
Spray with foaming Bleach lightly clean with a Soft Scrub sponge worked great for me. Took off some serious recurring mold specks. They have not come back and it been about 4 weeks. I intend to follow up with some white viniegar I picked up from Costco.
You will be amazed how easily it cleans up and the foam does not run all over the place.
 
Sep 17, 2012
74
Oday Mariner Middle River Md
As Capt. Wayne said, the Harbor freight models have worked fine for me. I did splurge though and get the $49 model.

A little off topic for this thread, but I just finished the topsides gelcoat on my 1970 O'day Mariner and was beside myself with satisfaction at how it turned out.
It looked pretty bad and was a "last shot" before considering painting. It had sat outside, uncovered for 5-8 years.
As the gel coat was chalky as well as stained, I used an air powered DA sander with a hook and loop pad. I cut green ScotchBright pads into circles and stuck them on. I scrubbed the entire topsides with that and a strong solution of Simple Green.
The green pads are close to about a 600 grit. I then followed up the same way with the grey pads which are about 1200 grit.
It cleaned all the stains, and removed the chalkiness.

PLEASE, Air Power ONLY with the above method, DO NOT USE an ELECTRIC SANDER with WATER!!

Then compound and polish.
Even on my 20 footer it was about 40 hours work, initial wash to finish wax. I followed up with "Woody Wax" as it's not as slippery, then used 3m Marine wax on vertical surfaces and areas not walked on.

I have to say it worked out great. Boat looks new, literally.
Anyone considering painting their topsides should give their gelcoat one more chance, as once it's painted it's painted forever.

Not too bad for nearly 45 year old gel coat.
Rob Jones
Fork,Md
 

Attachments

Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Rob, if you find a 1990 MacGregor sitting in your driveway mysteriously, this would be a great opportunity to document a photo instruction... I'm sure the owner will be back in a few days to pick it up :)
 
Oct 24, 2011
278
Hunter Passage 450 Lake Lanier, GA
I would highly recommend the Presta products...They have a good website that you can order from and also don't forget about the various grades of wool pads that should be used in specific orders. Also it helps to have a speed control on your buffer. Maine Sails article cited is the reference thread on this topic.
 
Sep 17, 2012
74
Oday Mariner Middle River Md
Doc,
You're too funny!
I'm not sure my 60+ muscles have quite recovered yet, although, now that I'm done the job, I think I could get it done a little quicker if I decide to rescue another "stray".
Looking at the results I really do think folks jump to paint way too soon, and once it's painted...
rj
 
Mar 19, 2013
75
Beneteau First 38 Chicago
As Capt. Wayne said, the Harbor freight models have worked fine for me. I did splurge though and get the $49 model.

A little off topic for this thread, but I just finished the topsides gelcoat on my 1970 O'day Mariner and was beside myself with satisfaction at how it turned out.
It looked pretty bad and was a "last shot" before considering painting. It had sat outside, uncovered for 5-8 years.
As the gel coat was chalky as well as stained, I used an air powered DA sander with a hook and loop pad. I cut green ScotchBright pads into circles and stuck them on. I scrubbed the entire topsides with that and a strong solution of Simple Green.
The green pads are close to about a 600 grit. I then followed up the same way with the grey pads which are about 1200 grit.
It cleaned all the stains, and removed the chalkiness.

PLEASE, Air Power ONLY with the above method, DO NOT USE an ELECTRIC SANDER with WATER!!

Then compound and polish.
Even on my 20 footer it was about 40 hours work, initial wash to finish wax. I followed up with "Woody Wax" as it's not as slippery, then used 3m Marine wax on vertical surfaces and areas not walked on.

I have to say it worked out great. Boat looks new, literally.
Anyone considering painting their topsides should give their gelcoat one more chance, as once it's painted it's painted forever.

Not too bad for nearly 45 year old gel coat.
Rob Jones
Fork,Md
WOW! what a great job! I've been looking for a method to shine the topside. Will give this a try.
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
The sander... Is it like an angle grinder and you just put green pads? What RPM is it?
 
Sep 17, 2012
74
Oday Mariner Middle River Md
The sander used with the Scotch Bright pads is an Air Powered D.A. [duel action] sander, the type used for auto body work.

http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-orbital-composite-sander-65173.html

It does take a decent sized compressor to run. I don't think it will work with a 2hp Home Depot compressor used for filling bike tires.

In most reads regarding gel coat restoration it's recommended to wet sand first, using wet or dry sandpaper if the surface is really bad.

The goal with each step you take is using a finer and finer grit to remove oxidation and to smooth the gel coat.
Basically, as the gel coat wears away you're left with a microscopically rough surface.
I don't think the oxidation is something that forms on the surface, but is more like the remaining bits of the existing very top layer of gel coat that's left after most of the top layer has worn off. So you're really removing damaged gel coat to get to a new smooth surface.

But, and this is a big but, you want to start with the LEAST aggressive "grit" that will do the job.

It could mean all you need is polish with a rotary buffer, Or it could mean compound and polish, or sand, compound and polish. All of these have finer and finer grit, but they are ALL abrasive.
What you want to do is find a spot that representative of your boat's surface.
Try a cleaner wax.
If that doesn't do it,
Try polish, if it didn't clean up and shine,
Try compound.
If it's still is dull and oxidized,
Try 1200 grit, wet or dry and soapy water,[or the Scotch Bright] and if it still looks bad, or, if it's way way too much work to make it look good, get even more aggressive with 600 grit.
Remember the more aggressive "grit" , polish, compound, sandpaper, whatever, you are removing gelcoat and there's only so much gelcoat there.
So you want to start with the LEAST aggressive method to determine what you need to use on the rest of the boat. Use only the amount of "grit" you need.

I started out with 1500 dry paper but found 2 problems with that right away.
1. As the gelcoat was not perfectly flat, I was sanding high spots but not the low spots.
As I was sanding away faded gelcoat on the high spots and leaving faded gelcoat in the low spots, I was getting a "mottled" look.
I think this could occur using dry, or wet or dry paper. At least using it with a pad. [Possibly you could wrap wet or dry around a sponge, and hand sand but... you're hand sanding]
2. I felt like I was removing too much material.

My goal was to remove oxidation, remove ground-in dirt and smudges and to smooth.
The Scotch Bright and Simple Green did all of these things while removing less material. They also were flexible enough to get into the low spots leaving a much more even looking finish.

I had a 6" pad but cut the Scotch Bright about 1" larger, to avoid hitting the edge of the sanding pad.

After the green Scotch Bright, which is about 600 grit, I used the gray Scotch Bright, which is about 1200 grit.


I'm sure this is way more than you wanted to know, But I didn't want someone to jump right to sanding if the boat didn't need it.

I think the real key is the rotary buffer, the duel action type that just "vibrate" really don't have the power to do the job, or it takes forever.
With the rotary buffer you are actually removing some material, but you can cut through. Be sure to keep the buffer moving.
rj
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Rob, that is a fantastic explanation... I learned a lot. thanks!,,,

I'm still going to drop mine off at your place ;)
 
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