Portable Generator

Jun 15, 2012
695
BAVARIA C57 Greenport, NY
Kings Gambit, did you read in this thread what jssallem wrote? I guess the time to react is after there are actual deaths.



 
Apr 8, 2011
768
Hunter 40 Deale, MD
Advice freely given about portable gasoline generators on boats is going to get people killed. tfox2069, you know and accept the risk. You have done the research with the manufacturer and have received clear instructions NOT to use the generator on a boat. I take exception to self proclaimed "experts" like Benny17441 giving out advice that is totally wrong. An unknowing and foolish individual taking this "expert" advice is putting lives in jeopardy, and may not be aware of the risk.

Personally, I don't understand why Honda and other manufacturers don't put an orange warning label on their generators clearly stating, "NOT FOR USE ON BOATS". My Hunter has such a label warning of CO in the swim platform, why don't generators have the same? When a death occurs, and it surely will, the trial lawyer will have a field day as what would the defense be? Everyone knows not to use these generators on boats, but everyone knows that's exactly how their being used.
I feel your passion SEMPERAVANTI - we're talking about something that does have the potential to kill people. Enough potential that the manufacturer **probably** recommends against it (I didn't ask them - but after reviewing their literature I'm fairly certain what they'd say if asked - and its largely due to liability is my guess).

But as Kings Gambit points out, many MANY boaters use these generators in just the role that the OP mentions, which probably totals millions of hours of use. Yup, people die from using portable generators on boats. They also die on boats from propane explosions, improperly vented diesel engines, fires, collision, drowning, and a host of other things. Many/most could probably be prevented by a proper assessment of the risk and appropriate mitigation (wear a life jacket in the water; maintain a good watch and always do everything you can to avoid a collision rather than insisting on right of way, properly maintain your boat systems, install, maintain and regularly test smoke, fire, and gas alarms to include CO, boat sober, etc., etc.). I'm sure there are insurance implications here: Would insurance pay out if damage/injury/death resulted from an unapproved use of a portable generator? Maybe - maybe not. There are studies on CO poisoning, but nothing I could find beyond a houseboat study that evaluated the use of portable generators on boats. Here's a few, if anyone is interested:

Consumer Products Safety Commission statistics on deaths from generator (not on boats, and not necessarily portable) average 54/yr (study is a little dated but here:

Here's an interesting study on generators on houseboats, which found deadly levels behind and below the generator (especially below the swim step on top of the water where people might swim): A Summary of Research and Progress on Carbon Monoxide Exposure Control Solutions on Houseboats

And here's another where, in Hurricane Irma with 185mph winds, more people died from CO poisoning (16) from generators than were killed directly by the hurricane itself (11): Deaths Related to Hurricane Irma — Florida, Georgia, and North Carolina, September 4–October 10, 2017

What it boils down to is essentially this: You are the Captain, and you are responsible for anything and anyone on your boat. If you are going to use a portable generator on your boat, do your research, consider the advice of manufacturers and actual experts if you can find one (I am NOT one), read widely, maintain your equipment so it will mostly act predictably, and take every precaution to ensure its safe use. People use portable generators on boats safely every day. Some are lucky; some know what they're doing. Be in the second group, know the risks, and take all necessary precautions if you decide the benefit outweighs the risk.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,098
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
it’s a matter of “recommendations” all based on conjecture.
Or perhaps experienced based anecdotal observation, which is uncorroborated by objective, independent evidence.
Shall we take all statements with a pinch of skepticism?
 
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Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Or perhaps experienced based anecdotal observation, which is uncorroborated by objective, independent evidence.
Shall we take all statements with a pinch of skepticism?
The conjectural part is to conjecture what could, would, might happen in a future “case“ knowing little, if anything, about the future circumstances. What happened to person A on day ?? at ??? locale, may not portend what will happen to B at some other time, and at some other place. It’s that probably distribution of outcomes again! Always at least a pinch. Quoting my mother & maternal grandmother, but probably not fully original: “Don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see!”:thumbup:
 
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Oct 22, 2014
21,098
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
There are many risks that are boating based. We each need to examine the risks and how they pertain to our boating activities.

For example, I accept the risk of solo sailing where another owner would not step on his/her boat unless there were a certain number of crew to share the responsibilities.

I value all of the comments made here. Some are stated with a lot of passion. What I find most helpful is the sharing of support data. Sometimes I have read the data and filtered it as it suits my activities. Sometimes it is totally new data and needs to be evaluated.

It is the willingness in all of us to evaluate the data that affects us and to decide if or how it might be implemented in our own boating activities that helps to power this site.

I hope we all keep an open mind about what we read and continue to share our thoughts, knowledge and experience in a positive manner. It is this civil discourse that helps to improve all of our boating fun.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Kings Gambit, did you read in this thread what jssallem wrote? I guess the time to react is after there are actual deaths.


I did not, but I will soon; can’t right now.
Thx
KG
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
SBO is hardly a bona fide expert-technical-advice website....
...with nothing that I’ve read reporting disastrous consequences....
What you're doing here is making a convincing argument, as far as online forums go, that is base don two fallacies. The first is an inverted form of the appeal to authority, that is, an appeal to lack of authority. The second is to present anecdotal evidence.

If you really look you will find cases of dire consequences involving portable generator use and CO poising. The deaths reported regarding boats where the generator was not built-in and was deployed outside the living quarters are admittedly very small, but they are non-zero.

But it doesn't matter. you are right, lots of use, few injuries and deaths reported. But you can also use common sense, and know that gas engines produce lots of CO, it can get into the cabin, it can even get into a downwind anchorage neighbor's cabin.
There are many smart folks participating on this forum, and to just write them off as non-experts dealing in conjecture begs the question: why do you read it, then?
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
There are many smart folks participating on this forum, and to just write them off as non-experts dealing in conjecture begs the question: why do you read it, then?
Being “smart” and having expert, that is to say highly specialized, knowledge about some subjects are not the same things. This whole sub-thread began when one member offering “expert-sounding“ advice regarding portable generators was challenged by another member, and others chimed in. Folks offer opinions and conjectures here everyday which are often debated and not just “written off.” Eventually a consensus might be reached before one of our actual experts introduces some facts not known to lay folks, etc. My point is that possession of expert knowledge is not required to participate in a discussion. “Smart“ people can figure out what’s what, but it brings to mind the Sandburg quote: “If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the facts and the law are against you, pound the table and yell like hell.“ And then some folks just like to argue, etc.
 
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Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I've put off picking up the stuff on the living room floor for one reason or another. It so happenes I've been stepping around my Owner'e Manual for the EU2000i generator.

Inside the front cover of the manual are two blocks of "WARNING"s. ONE, "The engine exhaust from this product contains chemicals known to the state of CA to cause cancer, birth defect or other reproductive harm". The SECOND WARNING says: Exhaust contains poisonous carbon monoxide gas that can build up to dangerous levels in closed areas. Breathing carbon monxide can cause unconsiouness or death. Never run the generator in a closed, or even partly closed area where people may be present."
Then on pages 2,6,7,8,9, 10, 20, 22, 34,39,40,41,43, 59, 82,85 there are special alerts for safe use of the generator. If people can't be forewarned by this, then they should not have bought one.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I think to OP did inquire for thoughts as how to set the exhaust so it does not enter dwelling areas of the boat.
 
Jul 23, 2009
857
Beneteau 31 Oceanis Grand Lake, Oklahoma
I haven't read all to posts so forgive me if I missed something.

I'll be using my Honda 2200 this weekend on Grand Lake (same lake as the OP) to run my 12,000btu AC unit. I don't plan to anchor out all night, we just need to escape the heat once in a while before and after the show.

Several years ago we (not us personally) had a CO death on the 4th at Grand. If I remember correctly it was portable unit sitting on the swim platform and the victim was sleeping behind the boat on one of those large foam pads. I remember telling the wife I could hear someones portable generator at fireworks show, might have been the same generator.

OP if you would like to test my generator with your boat send me a PM or look for my Beneteau 31. Gray bimini and blue cover on the jib. I'm out of Scotty's Cove. I'll be at the fireworks show up Duck Creek tomorrow.
 
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Jan 17, 2013
442
Catalina 310 St. Simons Island, GA
Regarding a Honda 2000 generator, you can buy an adapter and flexible steel hose "smokestack" for the generator. I had the fitting welded onto the exhaust outlet and can attach the long flexible smokestack to channel the exhaust wherever I want. Typically that is up in the air since CO is lighter than air. This combined with CO monitor in the cabin makes it less worrisome to run the genny either in the cockpit or up on deck. Of course only when we are on board and awake! Have a dometic smart start on the AC unit so the Honda will run my 16,000 BTU system. Snapped a couple quick pics of the generator adapter and attached.20200704_085931.jpg20200704_090549.jpg
 
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jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
Question: if you run a gas generator on LP, does it generate CO?
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,892
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Yes it does.. a little less, but still deadly, and MUCH more than a diesel gen.
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Kings Gambit, did you read in this thread what jssallem wrote? I guess the time to react is after there are actual deaths.


SEMPERAVANT141,

Thank you for this informative post!:thumbup:

KG
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,098
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Typically that is up in the air since CO is lighter than air.
Yes. CO is slightly lighter than air. It is usually associated with a warm air stream that helps with rise. But. CO tends to easily disperse in a given space. So care should be given to exhaust the CO out and away from the boat.
 

jviss

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Feb 5, 2004
6,745
Tartan 3800 20 Westport, MA
I must say, with all of this discussion that no one has suggested what I've considered for a long time, and that's to put the gas generator in the dinghy, trailing behind, with a long cord to the boat. In an anchorage it would naturally be downwind of your boat. It would also be quieter for you.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a combination 4-stroke outboard and generator?
 
Jul 27, 2011
5,002
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
I must say, with all of this discussion that no one has suggested what I've considered for a long time, and that's to put the gas generator in the dinghy, trailing behind, with a long cord to the boat. In an anchorage it would naturally be downwind of your boat. It would also be quieter for you.
:laugh: