Planing in a O'Day Widgeon?

[kgray9]

Hello all!

I bought a O'Day Widgeon this spring, and have used it roughly 7 times now on three different lakes. My latest time out was on the biggest lake yet for me (Lake Sunapee, NH) and the wind was 10 knots with up to 25 knot gusts.

Now my question is, can you plane in a Widgeon? I think the hull is a semi-planing hull but i'm not sure. Could you all take a look at the attached photos?

Thanks in advance!

Edit: FYI, I didn't manage to plain on my last time out, although I tried to by moving slightly aft and running on a broad reach when a gust would hit.

Link: SailboatData.com - WIDGEON 12 (O'DAY) Sailboat

 

[dlochner]

Probably. You would probably need to fly the spinnaker in order to get enough power to put the boat on a plane. Weight and balance will also be a factor. Don't be surprised if you end up capsized as you learn. Practice just surfing waves on the lake.

 

[kgray9]

Probably. You would probably need to fly the spinnaker in order to get enough power to put the boat on a plane. Weight and balance will also be a factor. Don't be surprised if you end up capsized as you learn. Practice just surfing waves on the lake.

Thanks @dlochner

I've only used the spinnaker once so far and on a day with very little wind (roughly 3 knots). I didn't get the spinnaker pole with the boat, so I rigged a 6 foot aluminum pole instead. Is that a good idea? The original pole was only 4 feet, but you could not fly all three sails at the same time; you could only use the main and the spinnaker at the same time, or the main and the jib.

Is it okay to use a 6 foot spinnaker pole instead (of the standard 4 foot) and have the main, jib, and spinnaker all flying at the same time ? All three sails were hoisted just fine on a no wind day on dry land.


Also, what would you think would be a suitably strong wind for planing?

 

[dlochner]

How long have been sailing? Getting a boat on plane takes some skill and it is not particularly stable. Build up to it.

Spinnaker poles are usually equal to the J dimension on the rig. A longer pole is not necessarily better. Unfortunately SailboatData.com does not list the J dimension. You'll have to search for it.

Spinnakers are powerful sails and can be a bit wonky. Practice in light winds until you have a good feel for how the sail behaves. Find an experienced sailor to help you out.

 

[kgray9]

How long have been sailing? Getting a boat on plane takes some skill and it is not particularly stable. Build up to it.

Well... about a year and a half. Not very long.

Spinnakers are powerful sails and can be a bit wonky. Practice in light winds until you have a good feel for how the sail behaves. Find an experienced sailor to help you out.

Yeah, I figured out they are a little wonky when I tried using it once with a light wind. Sure takes some getting use to. I cant find an experienced sailer near me though, and i'm not very close to any big lakes; only Lake Sunapee which is a 45 minute drive for me. I have, of course, studied up on planing and spinnakers with books and YouTube (lol).

Thanks for the help @dlochner . Ill try practicing with the spinnaker many times first to get the hang of it.

 

[jssailem]

At 180 lbs and a SA/Disp ration of 45.2, with a strong wind and a crazy crew you could probably get the boat to plane while sailing on a broad reach. You might find that control will get a bit squirrelly due to small rudder, but that would be some of the fun trying to push the boat to the MAX....

The boat is an older design and likely the hull was over built. If you want to plane at lower wind speeds you would need to lighten the boat as much as possible. A new carbon fiber mast for one. Perhpas new center board and rudder. In order to hold the bot down in a breeze you might add a trapeze for the crew.

 

[kgray9]

At 180 lbs and a SA/Disp ration of 45.2, with a strong wind and a crazy crew you could probably get the boat to plane while sailing on a broad reach.

Lol, I definitely wouldnt say a crazy crew. My only crew is my younger sister who is so-hum about sailing, and only does what I tell her to do; she doesn't have much knowledge about sailing, although I try to teach her.

The boat is an older design and likely the hull was over built.

It definitely seems like it. The hull seems almost like it would be fine to bring to a beach with how solid it is lol.

You might find that control will get a bit squirrelly due to small rudder, but that would be some of the fun trying to push the boat to the MAX....

Yeah, my last time out on Sunapee, there was at least a foot swell and some insane wind gusts. I noticed that it was a pain to keep a straight course with the wind and the swell like that.

In order to hold the bot down in a breeze you might add a trapeze for the crew.

That would probably be helpful. You can add a trapeze to a 12 footer? We were both leaning way out over the side precariously and could barely keep the boat from capsizing still. Would my crew-mate trapezing while we got up on plane be dangerous though? I mean, it would be a sudden increase in speed and such.

Thanks for the info @jssailem !

 

[jssailem]

Sailing on a trapeze is a learned skill. You are out with legs extended when the wind blows, and you collapse your legs and slid back aboard when the wind puff stops. You keep you feet on the hull at all times and if by chance you loose you footing you are in for a swing towards the stern. That is when the person with the tiller grabs you and pulls you back on the boat or the boat is going to go over...

While a lot of fun it definitely is a learned skill where the helm and the crew work as a team for their own survival.
Here is a video of twin harness sailing.

 

[Rick Webb]

Yes, it will plane, without a spinnaker.
It hums like crazy when it does.
We sailed Widgeons at Hickam Harbor in Hawaii in the 70s.

 

[kgray9]

Sailing on a trapeze is a learned skill. You are out with legs extended when the wind blows, and you collapse your legs and slid back aboard when the wind puff stops. You keep you feet on the hull at all times and if by chance you loose you footing you are in for a swing towards the stern. That is when the person with the tiller grabs you and pulls you back on the boat or the boat is going to go over...

While a lot of fun it definitely is a learned skill where the helm and the crew work as a team for their own survival.
Here is a video of twin harness sailing.

Wow, that video is insane. That boat seems like its made to plane easily. Would it be worth it though to add a trapeze to a Widgeon? Or would it be better to sell the widgeon, and get a newer boat that planes easier ?

 

[kgray9]

Yes, it will plane, without a spinnaker.
It hums like crazy when it does.
We sailed Widgeons at Hickam Harbor in Hawaii in the 70s.

What will hum? The boat? I have noticed when I am getting up to speed the tiller hums at a certain point and then stops once I go a little faster (not planing though).

Also, what do you think the wind strength should be for planing without the spinnaker? Like, maybe roughly 15 knots?

 

[kgray9]

What on earth!!!!

Take a look at the Widgeon Photo section on here; Blue Bird is my boat!!!! (and I kept the name)

Look at this:

OdayOwners.com Owner Photo Album

OdayOwners.com Owner Photo Album

oday.sailboatowners.com

OdayOwners.com Owner Photo Album

OdayOwners.com Owner Photo Album

oday.sailboatowners.com

I have that same original spinnaker still, but it looks like the mainsail in the photos has a clear part for looking through, while mine doesn't.

 

[jssailem]

If you "Have the Need for Speed", you will find one like in the video will be faster than possible with the Widgeon. THey are just made differently. Different materials, shape, systems.

In my youth I raced FD's (Flying Dutchman) off the San Diego coast.

They were a lot of fun. It was not as fast as the dinghy in the video but they were plenty of fun. You can see the hull in this image is very flat where the helmsman is sitting asl the way to the stern. These boats were built to plane.

 

[Johnb]

If you are going to start going really fast in a dinghy it is worth pulling the center/dagger board up some or maybe all.

It reduces your ability to point obviously but when going downwind it reduces the “twitchiness” of the boat hugely. At high speed and with a full blade down there you can broach faster than you can blink and over you go.

I know because I have done it.

 

[kgray9]

it is worth pulling the center/dagger board up some or maybe all.

Thanks for the tip @Johnb. That brings me to another question (kind of). The center board doesnt stay up when pulled up all the way, and is a pain to push back down; it's like it gets jammed. How would I fix that? I already crawled under and checked up in the case with a flashlight. There was only a small amount of mini barnacles on the bottom part of the centerboard. After scraping those off, nothing changed. How would I fix that?

 

[Rick Webb]

What will hum? The boat? I have noticed when I am getting up to speed the tiller hums at a certain point and then stops once I go a little faster (not planing though).

Also, what do you think the wind strength should be for planing without the spinnaker? Like, maybe roughly 15 knots?

It would start out with a vibration on the tiller then the whole mast and rigging would start. These were not finely tuned boats with great sails. They were old rental boats that were thrashed pretty often

15 to 20 was not unusual there above 20kts the Harbor Master would tell us to stay on the beach.

We had an ideal physical location. There was a causeway that the taxiway to the Reef Runway was on. It is a pretty low elevation, so it does not disrupt the wind, but the water is very calm in the shadow. There was a more than quarter of a mile reach along the taxiway to get it going.

Spent a lot of time there as a kid. Think I had my first beer there and I know other firsts too.