Picking a stove

Ross · Dec 16, 2010

One featrure that I like about cooking with gas is the response time . When I turn athe flame down it is immediate. With electric stoves I have to move the pot. I have not cooked on alcohol so tell me when you turn down the heat on an alcohol burner how quickly does it respond?

Richard9547 · Dec 16, 2010

Re: safety considerations

Just a quick "gotcha"...

Alcohol fumes are NOT lighter than air.
They are considerably lighter than the bottled gasses,
and light enough to not be a big risk.

Richard
SV Temptress

Richard9547 · Dec 16, 2010

I have one of those flaming drama queen stoves - a pressurized alcohol Princess. Lots of horror stories about pressure alcohol. And lots of horror stories about propane.

Pressure alcohol burns a lot hotter than than canned camping stoves.
But the stove has to be "pre-heated".
Once the burner is hot enough to vaporize the liquid alcohol the stove
works just fine. You will hear it hiss - and it BETTER BE BURNING!
If not, it's blowing alcohol vapor into the cabin - not a good idea.

Normally a small amount of alcohol is run into the pan under the burner by opening the stove's knob. It's hard to control how much comes out though. Pressure may be different from last time - the knobs respond slowly - etc.

Not enough prime to start right and you should let it cool off again before trying again. Dumping more alcohol into a hot pan is a (TM)
Bad Idea.

Too much prime and you will have a nice big flare!
A pot or pan over it may help.

If you are going to need both burners, light both at the same time.
Otherwise the second burner can flare (happens every time I've done that).

This summer, I started using a small squeeze bottle to prime the pans.
It's easier to control how much alcohol is in the pan.
Not too much, not too little, like baby bear - just right.

Lastly, I've made it a habit to have a heavy damp rag handy when playing with fire. Something I can drop over the stove and smother the fire if need be.

She's a drama queen, for sure, but she's unlikely to blow the deck off
(if handled right).

Ron20324 · Dec 16, 2010

A downfall of the pressurized alcohol is that guest crew can not be trusted to know how to use it.

David in Sandusky · Dec 17, 2010

Pressurized Alcohol

Lady Lillie came with a two-burner pressurized alcohol stove. It's simple, straightforward, and works fine for us. We have used both the wicked alcohol and propane on charter boats. We would buy wicked alcohol over pressurized alcohol ir we were buying new. We have a propane grill on the back rail that is also a backup. All of the crew we have had for overnight cruises have learned how to use the alcohol stove without problems.

A little planning accounts easily for the slower cooking rate of alcohol. If we want a quick start in the morning, we make coffee the night before, and store it in a thermos. Boiling water for coffee in the morning takes a while but we like a slow pace anyway, and bacon, toast, and eggs work just fine. All of that gives the Admiral a chance to sleep in, and rise when the smells of coffee and bacon draw her out of bed.

It seems to me that a boat insurance company could tell us the risks of the different systems. It's my impression that fires are a leading cause (if rare) of total loss on boats (behind hurricanes), and that propane is implicated more often than alcohol.

Thanks for the thought that a metal alcohol container could easily be punctured - ours will now move from a cabin locker to the cockpit locker with overboard drainage where we keep the propane bottles.

jibes138 · Dec 17, 2010

Used all three

I've used all three on boats I've owned, origo, pressure alcohol, and propane. I prefer the Origo over the others with propane coming in second. My own boat is getting older and I am considering replacing the propane with an origo two burner and mounting a microwave underneath instead of the oven. Another drawback to the Origo is the price is a lot higher but then you don't need a solenoid valve (check out those prices) and a sniffer, plus I will gain the room from not having a ten pound propane tank and all that weight.

Bill Roosa · Dec 17, 2010

CNG avalability

I would have to say that depending on someone to refill your CNG bottles is defiantly not the correct procedure. CNG is widely available but you have to look in the right places. Mass transit busses and industry are the first places to look, then go to the automobile refill stations.
Try
http://www.altfuelprices.com/ your mileage may vary, I count 7 in my area

These folks do not advertise and you HAVE to call them to find out if they have product for sale.

Did some checking on the home refill station
http://www.greenmyfleet.com/shop.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=59&category_id=37
At $4000.00 I'm thinking I'm not going to be a first adopter. If a propane tank is $25 and is equivalent to two 20 hour bottles at $1.5 each then I get breakeven at 85 tanks of CNG or 43 tanks of propane. That is about 25 years of sailing for me. Course if I had a business of selling them for $20 a pop you could do it significantly faster and turn a profit to boot.

Bill Roosa · Dec 17, 2010

CNG nightmares? never had one.

A friend’s kid turned on the stove but the bottle was turned off. We did not catch it and went home. Came back a week later and spent the night. Decided to make some coffee and turned the bottle on. Made the coffee on a different burner and did not notice the rear one was on. The wind was howling so I did not hear the hiss of the gas as I smoked my cigarettes. I then went to sleep and the wind lightened toward dawn. That is when I heard the hiss and turned the stove off. It ran all night!!! Almost completely drained an almost full bottle. (dang $1.50 out the companionway). I never even smelled the stuff.
They don't call it safegas for nothing.

Benny17441 · Dec 17, 2010

There is no reason not to have the best of both worlds, cooking efficiency and safety in an inexpensive setup. I have my concerns about camping stoves as they are designed to be used in the open and lack design features which may make them safe to be used in enclosed spaces. On a previous boat I installed a marine Primus 2 burner propane stove. It was a brand new 15 yr old model I found on E-Bay for under $75. I installed a 6' propane hose and regulator with an adapter to use the 1lb propane cannisters. The stove was permanently affixed to the galley and had pot holders, it had thermocouple switches to shut the gas off if the flame went out and had a pizzo igniter for easy starting. The main safety device was me keeping watch while in use and disconnecting the gas cannisters when done. At one point I added a pressure switch so the gas would be shutoff in the event of a regulator failure. Have had flareups with a Kenyon butane stove in a small boat and they are not fun. Origo makes an alcohol/ electric combination stove. The Origo 7000 has the alcohol cannisters but also incorporates electric burners. It can be used with shorepower as well as away from it.

Ron20324 · Dec 17, 2010

I was at Baconsails.com 's store yesterday, and they have a very large stock of Origo stoves- including the alchy-electric models. Looks like they bought the inventory of some other business?

Ed Schenck · Dec 17, 2010

David, I am surprised at your comments regarding "slow coffee". The three of us on the cruise were all two mug coffee drinkers at breakfast. So I would put enough water on the non-pressurized Origo for three full mugs. It was never more than six or seven minutes before the kettle whistled. Is that slow?

Then into the big French Press for a superior cup of java!! Oh, and then back on the stove for the second round.

DannyS · Dec 17, 2010

Jumping on the Origo bandwagon here. I've had a few different boats with a few different stoves (camp stoves, pressurized alcohol and the Origo). The Origo has been my favorite by far. Our Origo has the oven and I use it all the time. I'll admit the oven is a bit slow to warm up but once it heats up, it works great. I've seen very little difference in the time it took to make coffee on the propane camp stove vs. the pressurized alcohol or the Origo. Perhaps it's just my living on "boat time" and I don't really care if it takes a few minutes longer to make coffee or dinner. We all need to slow down a little more these days.

zeehag · Dec 17, 2010

my formosa, before i bought her, had 5 galley fires from alcohol stoves. there will never be another in any of my boats, i llove my force 10 propane stove with its 3 burners and oven.
if one is living on board, make it as homey as possible. i bought my force 10 stove 5 years ago and i still love it.

stephen Penny · Dec 17, 2010

My sailboat was supplied with a 2-burner and oven Origo 3000 fueled by non-pressurized alcohol. My wife and I have found it very efficient and SAFE. We also have propane 3 burner stove and oven in our 5th wheel trailer and we like it but it has added significantly safety risks, which require additional operating procedures to mitigate the risk of a propane leak.

zeehag · Dec 17, 2010

get bubble stuff-- best tool anyone can get for the money--3 jars for a dollar . makes bubbles where there is a leak. the last 2 camp stoves i bought new in gulf were quick to break-- there is a propane fitting under the stove-- try to get a hose made f or it with crimped end for the fitting that goes onto the lil bottle of boomgas. the hose will prevent the fitting under the stove from breaking/wearing out so fast. i swearz.l iam using one of those until i can get my force 10 installed inthis boat-- has worked ell--i dont bother to do the on and off with the cannister either-- it wont leak. mine has a special fitting-- i am able to turn the gas off with this fitting . the metal hoses on the reguloar fittings are bad they make toomuch wear on the fitting under the stove so it will blow out and oops is leaky under stove like crazy. that is coleman brand, btw. so use caution and have a hose made instead of that metal one. \
if you are fortunate enough to get an older stove-- they last looong time. the boomgas cans donot leak ..

David in Sandusky · Dec 18, 2010

Hmmm...

Ed, I'm probably boiling close to 2 quarts of water. It's more like 20 than 10 minutes on our stove.

We use the little cans of propane for our Magma Grill, and have a one burner campstove that screws onto a can for a backup. We store the propane cans in a locker in the cockpit that drains overboard.

It's very unlikely, but a malfunctioning propane can in the cabin can either suffocate you, or boom!

Bill Roosa · Dec 18, 2010

Bottle protocals

Smithy
The main danger with the small canisters is storage. Since you go through numerous bottles you can never be sure if they leak slowly or not so best practice is to put them in a locker that drains overboard or some netting type attachment over the stern etc. The amount of gas that might escape while you are cooking is not going to be significant enough to be concerned about provided you are paying attention, and inspecting before, during, and after and removing them when not in use.

Ross · Dec 18, 2010

Re: Bottle protocals

I use those bottles of propane for soldering torches and I have never had one leak. If that were a serious problem the fire marshall wouldn't allow them to be inside the stores where you buy them. The larger gas bottles must be stored outside.