Picking a stove

[Smithy]

As a near 20-year scoutmaster, I've been backpacking my way through all sorts of methods for heating water and food. I've used propane, butane, alcohol, gasoline, and wood to get the job done.

When I started looking into a sailboat, I noticed many of the ads listed "pressurized alcohol stove" as one of the items included. I'm curious, because my experience with alcohol is just the little tuna-can stoves, or something similar, where fuel is added, then burned, until it runs out in the small container you set alight.

Just off the top of my head, I would think propane is one of the safest deals in town, since alcohol burns without much of a visible flame, and is solvent to some materials one might find on a boat. Clearly a duel-fuel coleman, running unleaded, is smokey and less safe if you're pouring fuel into your tank on board. Not much room for a wood stove on smaller boats, either, though I've seen some tiny ones made just for small watercraft.


What's the appeal of an alcohol stove, and what are the drawbacks to a simple 2-burner propane, which is what I'm leaning towards for simplicity's and safety's sake?




(and yes, I did a search, but they all seemed focused on one particular brand or model, with questions on maintenance)

 

[jibes138]

safety considerations

all have pros and cons. Propane is heavier than air, so a leak can accumulate in the bilge with potential for catastophic results. That said, I have a propane stove and they are extremely common. Fuel is readily available but filling stations for smaller bottles are getting more rare as 20 pound tanks are now being filled in advance by large companies and traded in. Finding a facility to fill a ten pounder or five pounder is getting hard.
Pressurized alcohol risks a leak of pressurized fuel possibly igniting spraying a flame and flair ups on initial start up. Alcohol is lighter than air. The Origo solves this by using a wicking material without the pressure so it is probably the safest stove available. I had one on a previous boat and it was great. Safety concern with that is carrying gallon cans of alcohol you risk a puncture as the cans are pretty weak these days, and storing several of them for a long journey might be a concern. Probably best to transfer to a more robust container that can be strapped down while in transit. I can't say any other stoves would be recommended but lately electric stoves are starting to show up. You need shore power of course, or a large generator on board, not practical for a small boat.

 

[RichH]

Nice write-up by Jibes138

The practical/cooking differences is that Propane is at approx. 22000 BTU/lb. and Ethanol is about 11500 BTU/lb. Propane lb. for lb. has twice the heating value vs. Ethanol.
Ethanol takes a LOT longer to cook with and has a much lower flame temperature.

 

[catsailor]

As a near 20-year scoutmaster, I've been backpacking my way through all sorts of methods for heating water and food. I've used propane, butane, alcohol, gasoline, and wood to get the job done.

When I started looking into a sailboat, I noticed many of the ads listed "pressurized alcohol stove" as one of the items included. I'm curious, because my experience with alcohol is just the little tuna-can stoves, or something similar, where fuel is added, then burned, until it runs out in the small container you set alight.

Just off the top of my head, I would think propane is one of the safest deals in town, since alcohol burns without much of a visible flame, and is solvent to some materials one might find on a boat. Clearly a duel-fuel coleman, running unleaded, is smokey and less safe if you're pouring fuel into your tank on board. Not much room for a wood stove on smaller boats, either, though I've seen some tiny ones made just for small watercraft.


What's the appeal of an alcohol stove, and what are the drawbacks to a simple 2-burner propane, which is what I'm leaning towards for simplicity's and safety's sake?




(and yes, I did a search, but they all seemed focused on one particular brand or model, with questions on maintenance)

For propane there are really 2 safe aproaches that I am aware of. I've used both and was happy with both.

1. With a camp-type stove, simply remove the cyclinder when not in use and keep the cylinder on-deck. No slow leak risk.

2. With and installed propane system, there is complexity: a propane tank locker, a solenoid valve mounted on the tank regulator, a propane sniffer (linked to the solenoid valve) in the compartments where lines or appliances are found, and unbroken line to each appliance. Then it is very safe.

I'ld rather use a propane camp stove than an alchol stove. MUCH faster and easy to use.

 

[Ross]

I cook. My preference is gas fueled stoves. I have natural gas at home and propane on my boat. A 20 pound bottle of propane will last for more than one season and carrying a spare will ensure that you never run out.

 

[Ron20324]

As far as I know, all the BBQ-type tanks have the same fill connector. I get my 10-pound filled at the True Value Hardware nearby. My B235 had an Origoo 1500 alcohol stove built in. I had a second, portable, 1500 that I could use in the cockpit or at home if I loose electricity. Yes, propane burns hotter than alcohol, but unless you need to boil alot of water, your typical pan-cooking will not suffer if using alcohole burners. True, alchy gallon cans come in metal and plastic, are biig (an a better buy), and it would depend on where you can safely store it. I used to fill 16-oz soda bottles with alchy and top with a squirt-cap like you find on dishwashing liquids. One bottle will last a weekend. Easier to fill the canisters, also. Just fill the canister before use, and never fill it when it is hot. I have a second 1500 to sell if anyone would like it for half of West price. Get alcohol at Home Depot/Lowes for the better price than boat stores. Origo have a built-in pot holder. I'm not sure if camp stoves do?

That said, if you can properly secure a camp-type propane stove so it won't slide, the small bottles of propane are easy to deal with, and you can use them on a rail-mounted BBQ.

 

[Steve Dion]

The best stove for quick heating is butane. You can get these stoves like they use at buffets for about $35.00.

http://www.google.com/products/cata...log_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC8Q8wIwAA#

 

[Stan Breaux]

I agree with steve for a small boat.
The nice think=g about these little butane stoves is that the canister is contained in the stove, so it is very compact.
I also have a 2-burner Coleman propane stove, but it hangs off the side of the stove on a relatively week long brass tube, which makes it more difficult to set up and makes it take up a lot more counter space.
One of those small butane bottles can get me though at least a couple of days.

 

[Patrick17430]

BBQ

 

[heart of gold]

I still have the original Origo 2 burner with oven on my boat and I wouldn't trade it. I think having propane(and I know I'm in the minority here) in a bowl on the water is just wrong. To install the system would cost at least a boat unit(1000.00) which includes lots of man made equipment that could fail. I keep my extra fuel in their containers in other buckets with noting sharp with them. Having said all of this though, my BBQ that hangs off the rail is the standard propane type with the small bottles but if origo made an alcohol type, I'd look at it. If I were to install gas it would be natural gas as it is lighter than air and at least wouldn't collect in the bottom.

 

[kloudie1]

In answer to your question, Christopher, The pressurized alcohol stove is like the old Coleman white gasoline stoves.. You put some fuel in a prime/preheat cup around one burner and after the vaporizer tube is hot, you light the burner. The alcohol is kept in a pressurized tank that has a thumb or hand pump, again, very much like the old Coleman stoves. They get a bad rap because lots of “flare ups” happen if you don’t let the vaporizer get hot enough.. again just like the old Coleman gasoline stoves. The pressurized alcohol stoves are fine when properly used and an alcohol fire can be extinguished with water.. which is why they were once so popular on boats. The non-pressurized Origo is really a nice one if you want to use alcohol. I, like many folks on the forum, use propane because it is hot and cheap.. (uuhhhhh ok, no comments on old girlfriends) .. It can be dangerous but if ya have a functioning gas detector low in the boat, they have proven pretty safe. The simple two burner ones are fine, I used to use one a lot my 23 foot boat. I'd put it on the companionway steps so it was pretty much out in the open. Maintenance on all connections of an installed gas or pressurized alcohol stove is important because of the vibration and jolting that they get.. On a potential boat buy, always check the stove for function and check the safety features around it..the survey will usually not address it. Best to Ya.. !

 

[Ross]

I have often read that alcohol fires can be extinguished with water. But those who say it should try it. I have and it isn't easy or reliable. Put a few ounces of alcohol in an aluminum pie pan outside and set it on fire. then try to extinguish it. A soaking wet hand towel is the best I have found.

 

[Smithy]

The "heavy propane in the bilge" notion was new to me - being outdoors, one never has to worry about that. That makes a lot of sense, justifying the use of an alcohol stove, to avoid fume buildup.

So many things are different on a boat, eh?

 

[Bill Roosa]

CNG

OR
you could go green and be safe at the same time. I have a CNG stove and love it. CNG is lighter than air so it is not going to get into the bilges, a 20 hour bottle (standard) lasts me about half a season, refills (DIY not delivered) are $1.50 a bottle, burns clean and hot. And you don't have to have complicated storage arangements.
CNG is methane just like you use in homes. Even heard there is a refilling station you can buy and have plumbed into your house.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Even heard there is a refilling station you can buy and have plumbed into your house.

http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-cng-refill-adapter.html

Before anyone else mentions it: yes, CNG can be hard to find for refills, and most local marine stores that have it available do canister swaps for about $20.

We have CNG, and a backup tank on board. A local chandlery two blocks away has the refill canisters. Easy for us. Not so easy for some. Sources are available here: www.safgas.com

Also, CNG is simply not available outside the US (altho limited availability in Canada). If you're going traveling, switch to propane. U can get your stove switched over by calling Dennis at Seaward with the make of your stove and the serial # (inside the lid).

 

[Ross]

I would base my choice on what and how I cook and the availability of the fuel. Today with a 100 million BBQ grills in use propane is the most readily available cooking fuel. Given the boat size I doubt that any concern need be felt about the availability of propane in west africa. After that it depends on what is installed at present. If it is an alcohol stove in the boat I would learn to cook on that.

 

[Pat]

here here for the Origo....we've been using the Origo 3000 for 24 years and still enjoy it's simplicity....Nothing to go bad....No flare-ups....I have my Martha Stewart stainless coffee pot, and brew coffee every weekend morning.....have cooked fillets (Steak Diana) in skillets on it....boiled 10 pounds of pototoes on it....(now that is a little slow),,but it just continues to be a great stove....we clean it every weekend when thru....its a great stove....egg's benedict....you name it......Patrick

 

[Steve Dion]

I would agree with the folks that like their Origo non-pressurized stoves too. The only problem is that they are a little pricey. We had one on our '85 H'31 and it worked very well. Not the fastest cooking but it did get the job done.

CNG bottles are not very easy to get refilled unless you do like Bill Roosa did and make an adapter. There are CNG refilling stations in many cities throughout the country and if you have the proper adapter you can do your own refills for less than $2 for a 20 hr bottle. This is not an inexpensive option either if you do not already have a setup with the hoses, regulator, bottle & stove. This cost would be close to the cost of a propane setup.

Regardless of what you decide, just stay away from camping stoves with a gas burner inside the boat.

 

[Pops]

here here for the Origo....we've been using the Origo 3000 for 24 years and still enjoy it's simplicity....Nothing to go bad....No flare-ups....I have my Martha Stewart stainless coffee pot, and brew coffee every weekend morning.....have cooked fillets (Steak Diana) in skillets on it....boiled 10 pounds of pototoes on it....(now that is a little slow),,but it just continues to be a great stove....we clean it every weekend when thru....its a great stove....egg's benedict....you name it......Patrick

Take a look at the Cookmate 4200. It is not always easy to find, but is very similar to the the Orego stove. I found one new for 2 or 3 boat dollars less than the Orego and love it. Pressure-less alcohol stoves are great. Tonite I am making rice and beans with a little bit of chicken.

 

[stephen Penny]

I purchased my 1987 Hunter 31 sailboat last year equipped with an Origo 3000 NON-pressurized alcohol stove and oven. They work great and are extremely safe. Twenty-five years ago I sailed off the Atlantic coast for a week at a time with the same type of stove and found it efficient and safe. Highly recommend a NON-pressurized alcohol stove and oven.