Overboard discharge from deck fill

[Skipper]

My original holding tank was 3 gallons. The vent was halfway up,(pic on dock) not at the top. :-0 Would only hold 2 gallons before sending up the vent hose. Also like all tanks you can't get the last gallon out before sucking air. So capacity of tank was 1 gallon. Useless.

So I bought a 5 gallon with proper vent, and new hoses. Finally putting it in. But even with 4+ times the capacity, and actually usable, still kinda small. So I wanted to put in overboard pumpout. The boat has a lockable (locked) Y valve for direct over. But none for tank, which must be pumped from deck.

I wanted a diaphragm manual or electric pump, but too big for space. So looked at macerator which will fit on the aft bulkhead. My problem is space. If I put a Y fitting or valve on the tank exit, with the extra hoses to and from the pump, and looking at the space needed for the drawer frame (on v-berth in pic) on top, it would be veery tight. Might not work. Plus other complications.

I do not want to modify the cabinetry.

Jeez long story. Sorry. Anyway if I just put it back in as it was, I'd be done before finishing this post.
But I'd still want to be able to empty that tank offshore, if I had been in an anchorage etc with no pumpout facility.

So the the question, finally, is has anyone used a hand bilge pump (pic) with maybe a pumpout nossle(pic) to do it from the deck? One with the 6 foot hose to dangle in the water. Then just pump sea water through it to rinse. I don't want some elaborate setup and I'm thinking this might work.

 

[Skipper]

This type of pump. With a pumpout station style rubber nossle clamped on the bottom.

 

[capta]

Could you not T into you manual bilge pump, with a valve of course? It just occurred to me, so I haven't given it a lot of thought for the negatives.

 

[Ralph Johnstone]

So the the question, finally, is has anyone used a hand bilge pump (pic) with maybe a pumpout nossle(pic) to do it from the deck? One with the 6 foot hose to dangle in the water. Then just pump sea water through it to rinse. I don't want some elaborate setup and I'm thinking this might work.

That's exactly the setup I have for a standby pump if the macerator pump should decide to fail.

http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1205719&highlight=standby

 

[gettinthere]

I have my toilet discharging direct to the tank. The tank outlet goes to the Y valve with one side to the pumpout deck fitting and the other side to the mascerator overboard.

 

[Skipper]

Could you not T into you manual bilge pump, with a valve of course? It just occurred to me, so I haven't given it a lot of thought for the negatives.

Good concept. Not feasible on my boat. Manual pump is in the lazerette, head and holding tank are forward. Also the bilge pump discharge hose would permeate. Don't want to have to replace that. With the hand pump, I can easily rinse it, and chuck it if eventually needed.

I'd love to have a manual diagram pump, there's just no space. Tiny holding tank area, and no space in head compartment.

 

[Skipper]

That's exactly the setup I have for a standby pump if the macerator pump should decide to fail. http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=1205719&highlight=standby

I was thinking if the stand up pump type. Picture. With a pumpout style rubber nossle clamped on the bottom.

 

[Ken Cross]

How about a whole new angle

Pressurize the vent with a pool toy inflator. Pumps with exception of the macerator all will likely get clogged. the pool toy inflator won't explode the tank but it will force contents out.

Like this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Coghlan-s-12V-DC-Electric-Air-Pump/8586941
Or a cordless one like this:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Boyd-Cordless-Rechargeable-Electric-Air-Bed-Inflatable-Air-Pump/14295537

Ken

 

[slaume]

So the the question, finally, is has anyone used a hand bilge pump (pic) with maybe a pumpout nossle(pic) to do it from the deck? One with the 6 foot hose to dangle in the water. Then just pump sea water through it to rinse. I don't want some elaborate setup and I'm thinking this might work.

This is exactly what I do on Raven, when the need arises and the situation is right.

I have a diaphragm pump mounted on a board with a 4' pick up and a 6' discharge hose. I screw a cam lock fitting into the pump out and them lock the pump hose onto it. Toss the discharge end overboard, then sit in the cockpit and pump away. It doesn't take long to empty a 20 gal holding tank. I then pump a whole lot of sea water through the head and continue to pump out again. Pop off the cam lock, toss the intake overboard and pump a bunch of sea water through things to clear out the pump and lines. Coil it up and toss it back in the cockpit locker. Very little effort is involved and it has never clogged. I only do this when heading offshore before switching to direct discharge.

Unless you do a lot of off shore sailing or are not in a no discharge area, a 5 gal holding tank still seems pretty small, Steve.

http://www.camlock-fittings.com/polypropylene-camlock-couplings.html

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

...So I bought a 5 gallon with proper vent, and new hoses. Finally putting it in. But even with 4+ times the capacity, and actually usable, still kinda small. So I wanted to put in overboard pumpout....

You DO realize that it's illegal to a dump a holding tank in the Chesapeake Bay...that to do so legally, you'd have to be at least 3 miles out to sea on the other side of the eastern shore?
That's a long way to go dump a 5 gallon tank.

You don't have to settle for a too-small tank to avoid doing any carpentry... The "MSD" version portapotties are self-contained systems designed to be permanently installed and plumbed for pumpout. A 5-6 gallon unit holds 50-60 flushes, needs only a pumpout line and vent line. No moving parts to maintain, no tank and hoses using up to 20% of your storage space...almost clog proof...very inexpensive compared to all the components of a traditional toilet + tank system. Pumps out same as any other holding tank, nothing to carry off the boat...although you CAN in an emergency.

Check out the Thetford 550P MSD in the online store here: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?54026/ As you check this one and/or any others, remember it's only the units that have "MSD" in their model number that are designed for pumpout.

Btw, neither of your tanks is sitting on the right surface for the installed fittings. The 3 gallon tank on the dock is lying on its side (big clue is the cut out imprint for an inspection port, which has to be on the top of he tank)...and the location of the fittings on your new 5 gallon tank is the END of the tank--with the vent in the upper left corner, the elbow is the pumpout fitting. Unless there's a pickup tube inside the tank, you won't be able to empty it if that's how you intend to install it. Or maybe that's just how they happen to be sitting when you took the pictures...??

If you'd like some one-on-one help sorting out how to install a system that'll work as you need for it work, shoot me an email (EMAIL pls, not a PM)

 

[Skipper]

You DO realize that it's illegal to a dump a holding tank in the Chesapeake Bay...that to do so legally, you'd have to be at least 3 miles out to sea on the other side of the eastern shore? That's a long way to go dump a 5 gallon tank. You don't have to settle for a too-small tank to avoid doing any carpentry... The "MSD" version portapotties are self-contained systems designed to be permanently installed and plumbed for pumpout. A 5-6 gallon unit holds 50-60 flushes, needs only a pumpout line and vent line. No moving parts to maintain, no tank and hoses using up to 20% of your storage space...almost clog proof...very inexpensive compared to all the components of a traditional toilet + tank system. Pumps out same as any other holding tank, nothing to carry off the boat...although you CAN in an emergency. Check out the Thetford 550P MSD in the online store here: http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?54026/ As you check this one and/or any others, remember it's only the units that have "MSD" in their model number that are designed for pumpout. Btw, neither of your tanks is sitting on the right surface for the installed fittings. The 3 gallon tank on the dock is lying on its side (big clue is the cut out imprint for an inspection port, which has to be on the top of he tank)...and the location of the fittings on your new 5 gallon tank is the END of the tank--with the vent in the upper left corner, the elbow is the pumpout fitting. Unless there's a pickup tube inside the tank, you won't be able to empty it if that's how you intend to install it. Or maybe that's just how they happen to be sitting when you took the pictures...?? If you'd like some one-on-one help sorting out how to install a system that'll work as you need for it work, shoot me an email (EMAIL pls, not a PM)

Thank you, Peggy.

We moved back to Dana Point. Took the boat with us. I need to update profile and picture, but can't do from phone, long story.

I already have a new Raritan and like the setup for several reasons. No OB discharge not one of them.

Yes the new tank was just sitting there upended when I took the pic. Actual position will be more like the other pic I posted, with the tank laying down with fittings facing aft.

The old 3 gallon setup was a real head-scratcher. And original from Bristol - about the only screw up I've ever found on a boat of otherwise pretty good design and execution.

Thanks for the assistance offer.

 

[Skipper]

Thank you, Peggy. We moved back to Dana Point. Took the boat with us. I need to update profile and picture, but can't do from phone, long story. I already have a new Raritan and like the setup for several reasons. No OB discharge not one of them. Yes the new tank was just sitting there upended when I took the pic. Actual position will be more like the other pic I posted, with the tank laying down with fittings facing aft. The old 3 gallon setup was a real head-scratcher. And original from Bristol - about the only screw up I've ever found on a boat of otherwise pretty good design and execution. Thanks for the assistance offer.

Oh, maybe I never posted that other pic.
Anyway, the tank will be positioned like this. Pics.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Whew...that's a relief! However, I'd still give strong consideration to a self-contained system...for all the reasons I mentioned. And since you'll actually be in waters where you CAN dump a tank, it would be easy to install a y-valve and overboard discharge pump in the pumpout line.

 

[jibes138]

Peggy, Would a 5 gallon porta pottie use less water flushing so it would provide a lot more effective capacity than the same size holding tank in a marine toilet system?

 

[Gudenuph]

While Peggy can give you better advice, we've found that we could double or more the effective capacity of our holding tank by dry-flush evacuation, skid mark removal with a jet of water from a recycled plastic syrup bottle, final dry-flush. It worked for us.
Tip---Most plugs are caused by the paper. Less paper, fewer plugs. Got a waste basket?
Gudenuph

 

[Alan Gomes]

Peggy, Would a 5 gallon porta pottie use less water flushing so it would provide a lot more effective capacity than the same size holding tank in a marine toilet system?

Well, I'm not Peggy but I did follow her advice and installed a Thetford 550P MSD head when I bought my Ericson 26-2. And I can tell you that the effective capacity, in my real-world experience, is more than the 14 gal. conventional holding tank that I had in my previous Catalina 30. That's because it uses such little flush water. On my regular solo trips to Catalina Island, I can easily last a week with some capacity to spare. On the C30 I would be getting pretty much at max by the 5th day or so, requiring me to drop the mooring, motor out 3 miles, and dump.

I have it plumbed for overboard discharge through a macerator, so when I'm mid-channel I can empty it in about one minute. No problems at all with odor. Plus, if I wanted to I can remove the entire unit from the boat if I felt a need to do a "deep cleaning." But that isn't necessary because I'm careful to rinse the tank with fresh water after my trips and then leave some fresh water treated with Odorlos in it when I'm away from the boat.

One caveat about the Thetford 550P: While the head itself is just fine, the flimsy plastic hold down brackets are not. A friend of mine fabricated a dandy bracket out of stainless. It's set up with a knob so that I can easily rotate the bracket forward if I should ever want to remove the head from the boat.

Anyway, other than the hold down brackets, which can easily be replaced with something better, it's a great setup and I highly recommend it.

 

[Fred]

I have a 5gal MSD Dometic portapottie plumbed in for pump-out. Even with some care we have found it will only last 3 to 4 days when my wife and I are out. I am looking for a way to extend this for a day or two the occasional time this might be necessary. I am currently considering using the portable macerator pump installation as suggested in this thread and a portable "transfer tank" (e.g. a standard water carrier jug) that I could use if and when necessary. The transfer may be a bit messy but would only be used on rare occasions. We sail in areas where overboard discharge would not be legal.

My previous boat had a Thetford MSD head. This unit allowed me to fairly easily remove the holding tank portion (the MSD connection had a bayonet fitting) which could then be emptied at a local washroom or outhouse however the Dometic unit is rigidly plumbed in.

Anyone have better ideas?

 

[Alan Gomes]

I have a 5gal MSD Dometic portapottie plumbed in for pump-out. Even with some care we have found it will only last 3 to 4 days when my wife and I are out. I am looking for a way to extend this for a day or two the occasional time this might be necessary. I am currently considering using the portable macerator pump installation as suggested in this thread and a portable "transfer tank" (e.g. a standard water carrier jug) that I could use if and when necessary. The transfer may be a bit messy but would only be used on rare occasions. We sail in areas where overboard discharge would not be legal.

My previous boat had a Thetford MSD head. This unit allowed me to fairly easily remove the holding tank portion (the MSD connection had a bayonet fitting) which could then be emptied at a local washroom or outhouse however the Dometic unit is rigidly plumbed in.

Anyone have better ideas?

*If* you (and more importantly the wife!) are willing to deposit the tissues in a trash bag rather than in the head, you'll find that this will make a noticeable difference. I have gone to doing this, not so much to increase capacity as to make sure I avoid even the possibility of clogs. (My particular installation required that one of the elbow bends is sharper than optimum.) But when my wife is aboard she doesn't go for the idea, and so we just put the paper in the tank. (I'm careful then to use paper that readily dissolves, whereas if I'm dropping it in a bag I use whatever paper I wish.)

The number of days I reported above, by the way, assumes depositing the tissue in the head. I think those numbers are roughly comparable to yours, granting that you have two aboard whereas my experience for extended stays has been on solo trips. (As I mentioned, I can easily go a week without worry.) Tossing the paper in scented plastic trash bags may just make the difference for you, if you are willing to try it. Personally, I'd try to avoid the complexity of adding a second tank unless you found it absolutely necessary. One of the real virtues of our setup is its simplicity.

 

[Sumner]

.....While the head itself is just fine, the flimsy plastic hold down brackets are not. A friend of mine fabricated a dandy bracket out of stainless. ....

Yep in my install I also ....

... made new aluminum ones.

I have it set up ....

.... so it can be pumped out or I can pump out if some place legal using the macerator pump and a fitting that screws into the deck fitting with a collapsible hose attached to it. The fitting and hose are stored in a 1 gallon bucket with a screw on lid that has a seal.

More on the install here....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-index.html

... and I had to use the 260 model since I needed the shorter height..

.... to work where it went in,

Sumner

=====================================

2015 to The Bahamas and back -- I hope

Our Endeavour 37

Our MacGregor 26-S Pages

Our Trips to Utah, Idaho, Canada, Florida

 

[slaume]

We have a 20 gal holding tank but soon learned that it was best if my significant other did not put all the paper in the head. We keep a small plastic container next to the head that has a sealable lid. I tend to use the direct deposit system most of the time for liquids. It is just easier and doesn't fill up the holding tank. If it is rough, I have a wide mouthed container so as not to risk a man, with fly opened, overboard situation. I do this even when offshore. Maybe more so. This also eliminates any possiblity of splatter in the head when a wave hits at the wrong time, Steve.