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Old Failing Raymarine Electronics

Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
Our Hunter 306 was fully outfitted in 2004 by the dealer with a Raymarine C80 chartplotter, ST60 wind, ST40 depth and speed, and an ST4000+ wheel autopilot, all mounted on navpods at the helm. Everything worked well in 2016 when we were last in the water, but the C80 is now dead, and the wind transducer is close to dead (direction works fine, but the paddle wheel paddles only in very high gusts). I really liked the old system, and regularly used everything except the speedo, which was next to useless given the marine fouling: after a few seasons, I left the transducer up out of it's socket in the hull.

I'm aware of the transition to Seatalk ng backbone, so initially I planned to buy an Axiom 9 chartplotter and the Seatalk-to-Seatalkng conversion kit. Having noticed that the wind transducer is dead, I'm wondering what my options are. I'm thinking

1) Maybe I can just buy a new ST60 transducer (?) and go with the conversion kit and Axiom 9? But it's unclear to me if the new-style transducers (with the big "egg" between vane and paddle wheel) are compatible with my older ST60, which doesn't have the big egg. I can't go up the mast for a couple of weeks to check it out, as we're on land.

2) Bite the bullet, gut everything, and get a fully upgraded system. But this might require changing the depth thru-hull, which I'm really not ready to do right now. Recall that the old depth and speed transducers screw into plastic large-diameter thru-hulls. I assume this would also be more expensive.

In order, here's what I really care about: depth, chartplotter, autopilot, chartplotter talking to autopilot to transfer waypoints, wind. The speed transducer, I would see how far I can throw...

Thanks for your thoughts.

Jay
 
Jan 11, 2014
7,746
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The newest generation of transducers combine speed, depth, and water temp. Almost all are made by Airmar who supplies RM, Navico, and I'm sure others. They are probably a larger diameter than the old transducer you have which means removing one of the old transducers and enlarging the hole. I did this a few years ago, not a particularly difficult job. I left one transducer in the hull and just enlarged the other hole for the new transducer.

The lastest RM network is based on NMEA 2000 which is only about 20 years old. The older network is based on NMEA 0183, which now about 40 years old. When confronted with a similar situation on my boat, I took the nuclear option and removed the old system with a complete upgrade. In the process boxes of old networking wire was removed and replaced with a single backbone and drop cables.

The nuclear option also provides the opportunity to look at brands, B&G, RM, Garmin, and Furuno. I opted for B&G.
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,493
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
The ST60 wind transducer can be rebuilt with new bearings and seals. See my other posts on this issue. Detailed instructions on the rebuild procedure.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
The newest generation of transducers combine speed, depth, and water temp. Almost all are made by Airmar who supplies RM, Navico, and I'm sure others. They are probably a larger diameter than the old transducer you have which means removing one of the old transducers and enlarging the hole. I did this a few years ago, not a particularly difficult job. I left one transducer in the hull and just enlarged the other hole for the new transducer.

The lastest RM network is based on NMEA 2000 which is only about 20 years old. The older network is based on NMEA 0183, which now about 40 years old. When confronted with a similar situation on my boat, I took the nuclear option and removed the old system with a complete upgrade. In the process boxes of old networking wire was removed and replaced with a single backbone and drop cables.

The nuclear option also provides the opportunity to look at brands, B&G, RM, Garmin, and Furuno. I opted for B&G.
Dave,

Yeah: I just think I only have so much of this "poking holes in my boat" energy in me. I may have used up this year's quota already, and I've scheduled a launch date. But the nuclear option may be in my future... Thanks.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
The ST60 wind transducer can be rebuilt with new bearings and seals. See my other posts on this issue. Detailed instructions on the rebuild procedure.
Rich,

Thanks: I did see your posting on this, but I thought it was for the ST50. If it's the same sensor (mine does look like this, superficially), this may be the route for me. I think the display is still working (both direction and speed), it's just that the paddle wheel isn't turning freely. I guess I'll have to wait until I can go up the mast to get the part down.

Jay
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
Supposing that the wind transducer overhaul fails: does anyone know if the Raymarine wind transducer with the egg-shaped body is compatible with the older, cylindrical transducer? In other words, is this a plug-and-play replacement with a 2004-era ST60? The "Raymarine Standard-Arm Forward Wind Transducer" online says "Designed for use with Raymarine i60, ST60, etc...".
 
Mar 6, 2008
681
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
Jaysweet, yes, the egg shaped trasfucer is compatible with the cylindrical type. I replaced mine. But all it needed was lubrication. Disassembly is not needed. While up on the mast, unplug and turn upside down, place several drops of 3-in-one oil in the openings and hand spin it until it smoothly turns. Do this for the wind direction aswell.
Place lanoline on the plug and fasten back up.
Be sure to turn off the power when performing this service.
Save over $300.00.
Let us know how it goes.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
Jaysweet, yes, the egg shaped trasfucer is compatible with the cylindrical type. I replaced mine. But all it needed was lubrication. Disassembly is not needed. While up on the mast, unplug and turn upside down, place several drops of 3-in-one oil in the openings and hand spin it until it smoothly turns. Do this for the wind direction aswell.
Place lanoline on the plug and fasten back up.
Be sure to turn off the power when performing this service.
Save over $300.00.
Let us know how it goes.
Good to know, Joe: thanks. BTW, in one of the 3 documents that Rich Stidger posted about overhaul, it says that the bottom plug/cap (the one for the anemometer) can fill up with water, causing corrosion of the bearings. It says there is a small hole to drain it, which can get clogged up. So when I get it down, I guess I'll look things over to see if overhaul is required, or perhaps just cleaning and lubrication. Maybe some PTFE lubricant?
 
Mar 6, 2008
681
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
The lubricant must remain viscous at low temperatures and not gumup overtime or provide friction that will indicate lower than expected data measured results.
 
Jul 7, 2004
7,921
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I'm headed up the mast soon to repair my wind xducers. Would McLube OneDrop work here?
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,493
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
The rebuild instructions apply to ST50 and early ST60. There are two bearings on the cup shaft and the vane shaft. You might get some lube on the outer bearing but not the inner one. I tried lube before I rebuilt my first transducer but it did not work. Hopefully YMWV. The cups and came should easily move with the lightest breath possible- like a normal exhale.
 
Mar 6, 2008
681
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
I am not familiar with McLube. What is it designed for? The other lubricant that could be used is sowing machine oil. Take a bottle with you and apply a generous amount. Stay up there and keep rotating it and pull the shaft in and out to encourage oil to penetrate. This oil has fine molecules and is designed to penetrate small opening. It has low viscosity.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
The rebuild instructions apply to ST50 and early ST60. There are two bearings on the cup shaft and the vane shaft. You might get some lube on the outer bearing but not the inner one. I tried lube before I rebuilt my first transducer but it did not work. Hopefully YMWV. The cups and came should easily move with the lightest breath possible- like a normal exhale.
Rich,

When I get it down to ground level, I will almost certainly tear it down to the point where I can get at the bearings. I wonder if cleaning them out with carb cleaner would fix most bearing problems? Of course, in our case we're talking about 16 years of spinning up there (with maybe a couple of winters when I took them down early on), so maybe not. In my case, it's not that I'm too cheap to buy new bearings, but for some reason I'm reluctant to do it before I get a look at the transducer, which can't happen until we launch on the 27th. Maybe I should just bite the bullet an order 4 bearings ahead of time, and then I'll have them...

Thanks very much for posting your really well done instructions!

Jay
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,493
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
@jaysweet - in my experience the bearings wear out after about 12-16 6-month summer seasons. Less if it is not taken down during the off season. I think it is not an issue of just needing cleaning but rather of actual wear. I would obtain a set of bearings and new seals so that they can be replaced at disassembly. But your choice. My instructions give the specs for the bearings and seals and where they can be obtained. FWIW, I have one set of parts available. If you have any questions during the rebuild I will be happy to help.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
@jaysweet - in my experience the bearings wear out after about 12-16 6-month summer seasons. Less if it is not taken down during the off season. I think it is not an issue of just needing cleaning but rather of actual wear. I would obtain a set of bearings and new seals so that they can be replaced at disassembly. But your choice. My instructions give the specs for the bearings and seals and where they can be obtained. FWIW, I have one set of parts available. If you have any questions during the rebuild I will be happy to help.
Thanks, Rich. I just ordered 10 of them, since it costs only a bit more than ordering 4 individually. We'll hope this all goes well. I suppose if I can replace my kid's iPhone glass (more than once), I should be able to handle this, given your instructions.
 
Feb 10, 2004
3,493
Hunter 40.5 Warwick, RI
Thanks, Rich. I just ordered 10 of them, since it costs only a bit more than ordering 4 individually. We'll hope this all goes well. I suppose if I can replace my kid's iPhone glass (more than once), I should be able to handle this, given your instructions.
Very good. Don't forget to get some of the o-rings too. You will need two for the cups and two for the vane, four of them total.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
I got my ST60 (2004 vintage) wind transducer down from the mast on Saturday, and replaced the bearings and o-rings using Rich Stidger's excellent instructions


For both the lower pair of bearings (speed) and the upper pair (direction), the outer bearing of the pair (the one that gets the most weather) was shot. Although the paddle wheel part seemed to turn freely, when I removed it and spun the shaft between my fingers, you could really tell that it felt gritty, so the bearings were definitely bad. Frankly, the wind vane shaft was even worse, although the wind vane seemed to point correctly up on the mast. The electronics continue to read out correctly (as far as I can tell), so hopefully this fixes the problem. Back up the mast tomorrow!

Thanks again, Rich, for the excellent instruction, including a source for the bearings.
 
Jun 25, 2004
283
Hunter 306 Pasadena MD
By the way: my other problem was a dead C80 chartplotter. Actually, not really dead. It would power up with a uniformly gray screen which you could just barely distinguish from black. The buttons would all cause a beep when pushed, and it would power down as normal by holding down the power button for several seconds. Most of the things I read said that Raymarine wouldn't do any repairs on such an old bit of equipment. While looking for used units on eBay, I found that the same seller of several of the used C80's, Seawire Marine, also sells a service called "Raymarine C120 C80 C70 LCD Image Repair with Software Upgrade | 1 YEAR WARRANTY!" for $300. It says

"The Raymarine C Classic Series (C120, C80, C70) are known for having a common internal failure which causes the LCD screen to go white / gray, show vertical lines, or display other abnormalities. At our repair facility certified technicians can properly repair this issue and restoring full functionality of the unit."

which pretty much describes what mine is doing. Anyway, I've mailed it off for repair. $300 for (hopefully) a few more years of service beats $1200 plus installation for a new Axiom 9 plus bus converter. Although I'm sure one of those is in my future.
 
Jan 22, 2008
8,050
Beneteau 323 Annapolis MD
I think it was this thread earlier, but Bacons/Annapolis earlier had 2 or 3 C80, some with all additions. I'm on my second C80. the first having failed as yours did. Keep us posted on your replair, please.