Oh NO! - Not Again!

[Roger Long]

You'll never lack for drama as long as you check this this forum.

My engine seemed a bit reluctant to start this morning but it felt like I just hadn't pushed the starter button firmly. After walking around town, I remembered and decided I should check it out.

Pushing it firmly got the engine going but it cranked reluctantly. It started quickly as soon as it turned so it's a starting system problem. 12.73 volts and 95% SOC on the battery monitor so that isn't it. I opened up the panel and bypassed the push button switch. It isn't the switch.

Three tries and it got slower each time. I could hear the solenoid click solidly. Starter was rebuilt just last spring.

Now, there is nothing but the solenoid click when I push the starter button. I'm stuck here at the public dock.

Let the speculation begin. Any local knowledge on mechanics familiar with older Yanmars appreciated.

 

[dparilla]

Corrosion on the starter button contacts, wires, solenoid or starter contacts? Extended wiring run that is causing a voltage drop? Of course there is always the ubiquitous fuel flow rate (gummed filter, lift pump, air in the lines). Ours was a combo of a little air in the fuel line along with the Universal M-25 ammeter wiring problem so clearly broken out by MS, so would tend to look in that direction first.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Dan, Roger said it wasn't his pushbutton.

Roger, I don't have a clue other than to suggest you check the ground connection on your engine block. We have a lot of those issues on our skipper's boats with M25 engines. If you have an inline fuse between the pushbutton and the starter, they sometimes go, too. Had it happen to me. Either it fails catastrophically and nothing happens, or the fuseholder or the contacts start to fail intermittently.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg37179.html#msg37179

Good luck,

Stu

 

[dparilla]

That's the link I was looking for!

 

[Warren Milberg]

Roger: What was the voltage drop when you actually hit the starter? Could this problem be the classic old Yanmar starting problem with the impedence in an old wiring harness with too many connections? If the so, the fix is a running a new #10 red wire from the starter button to the solenoid, or add a 12vdc relay on the solenoid, which is what I did when this problem appeared on my 1986 Yanmar 2GM20f.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

I've no experience with your engine but a lot with diesel in general.

I'm going to assume you've got either a test light or a meter.

1. Pressing the start button test for voltage on both sides of the solenoid load side. If you have voltage present on both sides then check at the starter. If not then the solenoid is faulty.

2. With the button depressed do you have voltage at the starter? If yes and the starter isn't working still check your ground. If you have a good clean ground replace the starter. If no ground repair the engine ground and retest.

Sorry for any mistakes I'm doing this on a phone!

 

[Rob2435]

I agree with Warren Milberg...had the same problem on my 1998 Beneteau and after listening to all the suggestions, replacing switches - I ran a #10 wire and I haven't had a problem since. It starts every time I push the button.

 

[Chuckbear]

A bad battery can give you proper voltage at rest, but as soon as a load is applied the voltage will drop significantly. Based on your symptoms, I would consider a battery or wiring problem, either are a pain but not serious. Chuck

 

[Roger Long]

I've got a battery monitor and monitor the battery condition consistently. The solenoid gives a good loud click when I press the button. The engine cranked vigorously the start before the failure so I don't think it is the battery or the wiring. It progressed rapidly to total failure in about six trials after I first noticed the hesitation.

I'm sure it is the solenoid contacts or adjustment. It would be a classic failure, poor contact, high resistance, heat, poorer contact, higher resistance....

So, you want to be a yachtsman, do you?

 

[kloudie1]

Echoing others, make sure the little wire to the starter from the solenoid has good connections on both ends.. same with the engine ground strap to batt neg..
After that, a hung up starter brush or brush spring .. bad connection of brush.. (rebuild error installing new brush).. dirty commutator..First, though, you can hook a jumper cable to the starter side of the solenoid and see if it turns.. if not then time to pull the starter and start liooking.. It is not hard usually to get the solenoid apart and clean up the high ampere contacts.. also not hard to check out the brushes in the starter for free movement.. Not a bad drama, just irritating.. Worst case :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Starter-Inb...gines-/370469293239?item=370469293239&vxp=mtr
in Harker's Island ..

 

[bria46]

The same thing happened do me. Check your glow plug connection(s)

 

[Roger Long]

Check your glow plug connection(s)

No glow plugs on this engine.

 

[Tom J]

We had the same symptoms on my neighbor's truck. Solenoid pulled in with a loud click, but the starter didn't engage. Good voltage at both sides of the solenoid contacts. Turned out to be a bad battery cable, one of those molded ones specific to that engine's harness. The break was somewhere in the middle of the cable, apparently. There were just enough strands left to show voltage, but there was no current flow.

 

[Roger Long]

Turned out to be a bad battery cable, one of those molded ones specific to that engine's harness.

Interesting. I just put all new battery cables in last year so it's not high on my suspect list.

The rapid and progressive failure sure seems like failing contacts in the solenoid to me but I've been wrong before as readers of this forum well know.

Anyway, the starter is out so the path of least resistance now is to have it checked out.

 

[Benny17441]

If the solenoid is clicking firmly every time then the problem is in the high amp circuit. You indicate fairly new battery cables so will go with that and say check all the connections for corrosion and tightness to and includying starter, ground, battery switch. I see you have removed starter, so have it bench tested. By any chance and given your past problems did any emulsified oil find its way to the starter? If it did yhe brushes may need some cleaning but the fact that it was working tends to point to aconnection problem.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

I'm curious as to why you'd pull the starter without testing the circuit first?

 

[Roger Long]

I'm curious as to why you'd pull the starter without testing the circuit first?

I'd verified that the push button wasn't the problem. All the wiring was redone just last June and the connections were tight. The starter connections are nearly inaccessible and I would have needed a second person to do any troubleshooting.

The failure mode, progressing in just a few trial starts from hesitation to dead, is perfectly consistent with failure of the solenoid high amp circuit contacts. The trouble shooting section of the engine manual lists failed (pitted and burned) contacts as the probable cause.

Plenty of power is getting to the solenoid via the engine harness wire. I can hear it closing with a solid clunk. It's hard to believe that the big cables, built by our own Mainesail just 9 months ago, could have failed.

If it had just suddenly failed, I would have been more inclined to look at the cabling. However, the progressive failure is a lot more consistent with something going wrong inside the solenoid than the cables.

It may be as simple as the adjustment of the travel nut on the solenoid but I'd like that kind of thing done in a bench testing rig instead of fiddling with it on the cabin table trying to jury rig power to it from a portable battery.

 

[GeorgiaBII]

The starter connections are nearly inaccessible and I would have needed a second person to do any troubleshooting.

Very true, I've had that problem in the past but last year I bought a tool that has REALLY cut down on my need for a helper. Fluke must have been reading my mind when they made this available!

Fluke Remote Display meter!

 

[Roger Long]

Fluke must have been reading my mind when they made this available!http://www.fluke.com/Fluke/usen/Digital-Multimeters/Fluke-233.htm?PID=56054

I want one! Santa....

 

[Bill Roosa]

It is a little known fact that the circular contact ring in the solenoid is so that a new piece of copper contacts each time the solenoid is used. the ring rotates slightly to bring a new sontact area into use. As things get carboned up the ring can freeze and stop turning.
The shop solution it to give it a good rap to free it up then quiclky tap the start button to engage the solenoid a few times to get it rotating. I've also just done the rapid and repeated tapping the start button to free the ring up with some success.
Don't rap on the ceramic parts or the terminals just the solenoid body.

If all else fails the ring can be cleaned up just like the slip rings on an alternator. Some disacembly is required and that is usuall the hard part as some are crimped shut and not bolted together.

Good luck