NO for Tukki Bird

Peggie Hall HeadMistress · May 23, 2007

You failed to take one thing into consideration, Jim

Inflation. In 1996 I bought and restored a project boat and was able to get the original factory-dealer invoice. In 1979 the boat as equipped had a "list price" of $97k. Comparable new when I bought it in 1996 was around $190k. You may or not be old enough to remember the galloping inflation in the '80s that reduced the value of the USD to less than half it 1979 value by '96...keeping the price of a comparable new 1996 boat just about the same when adusted for inflation as it cost in '79.The boats that actually appeared to go up in value in the '80s were the '60s models, many of which were priced below $30k...they depreciated normally, but as the value of the dollar decreased, the value of many of these boats in depreciated dollars increased. But not in REAL value, 'cuz the same NEW boat that had a list price of $25k 1965 had to have a price tag of at least $65k in 1990 just to keep up with inflation. When the owner who paid $25k new sold it for $29K, he thought he'd actually made money...but not really.

Jim · May 23, 2007

Peg, I agree

Can I ask what kind of boat you bought, please?when you talk about real dollars, buying the boat in 1968 for $25,000 then selling it in 1996 for $29,000, you still lost money. A 1968 dollar is is worth a heck of a lot more than a 1996 dollar, which is worth more than a 2007 dollar. I think that is the reason boat prices go up 10 to 20k per year now.I do remember the 1970s. I was making a 16% return in CDs at one point, sweet!

Ross · May 23, 2007

For the question of inflation I can offer this

Social security allows that 1963 dollars are worth 7 times as much in todays dollars. So that the 3300 dollar income I had in 1963 is worth 23100 dollars today. There may be some discussion about that factor but that is how SSA calculates the numbers. Thus a boat that sold new in 1963 for 12000 dollars would today sell for 84000 dollars. That doesn't allow for an uneven increase in the price of some goods and services.

SEADANCE · May 25, 2007

Katrina Boats

went to take a look at those 3 boats I mentioned.Guy bought them in a lot from a salvage place. These boats ARE Katrina boats I don't care what the owner tried to snowball us with. The boats are rotting in the water, mold everywhere and debri, everything is broken.Everything needs to be replaced.I said Project boat. I would not even go down below. He looked insulted. He pushed $15,000. He kept going around the boat telling us how much everything was worth until I finally had enough and told him I believed that this boat would take $15,000 to repair. New bottom paint my arse. I don't know whats worse boys. A car dealer trying to sell a sailboat or a car dealer trying to sell a Katrina boat. I laughed all the way back to the car.

Stu Jackson · May 25, 2007

Kubotas and C30s

The Universal engines in Catalinas started out in the C30s with raw water cooled smaller 11 to 13 hp motors. Yes, they "replaced" the Atomic 4's, (which were 30 hp, if I recall correctly) but only because they were better as diesels, and then they stopped making the A4's, not necessarily in that order. The smaller raw water cooled diesel engines are to be avoided, because they're small and raw water cooled (!), which creates the potential for lots of overheating problems. Some people still have them and love them because they know how to take good care of them.The "basic" Universal engine is the M25, 21 hp, 3 cylinder FRESH water cooled, which means it has a heat exchanger where the fresh (recirculated) water gets cooled with sea water, which is what gets pumped out the exhaust through the muffler. This engine (a Kubota tractor engine, Model D850) was made and installed in Catalinas (C30, C34 and C36) from inception in the early 80's to mid to late 80's when the M25XP came on line. The XP is essentially the same engine with a bigger HX and a better alternator bracket (2 more HP up to 23). It is the Kubota D950 block. It was used to mid - 90's. Then Universal started making the M30, M35, M35XPAs, Bs, Cs and all sorts of different model numbers, which are larger four cylinder versions of the same engine, with recurring Kubota cross references.The ADVANTAGE of Universals is that they are known THOROUGHLY by all experienced Catalina owners and there is a vast TREASURE OF WEALTH OF KNOWLEDGE about them on ALL of the Catalina Association Websites. They also have glow plugs, which makes them easier to start in cold weather.You can also buy parts for them at "NON-marine" prices by getting them from Kubota tractor engine dealers, rather than Universal marine engine dealers. In some cases, Kubota prices are 25% of marine prices. We have a list of them on our C34 website. We have 2,000 engine hours on our 1986 boat. It runs perfectly. A friend has over 4,000 hours on his C34. They are very good engines for boats of the sizes we're talking about. Some of the newer Catalinas are using Yanmars, but the C34s and C36s still are being produced with Universals.Yanmars are also very popular, don't (as I understand it) have glow plugs, and also have lots of knowledgeable sources of information. Since they're not tractor engines, I doubt you'd get non-marine prices for parts.We had a C22, then a C25 and then our C34. Over 25 years of pleasant experiences with our boats, the Associations and Catalina Yachts, still in business!!! And, more importantly, supporting all their older boats with parts.The older Hunters with "standard" sailing rigs (NOT the high up travelers and B&R rigs) have great value and popularity also.

CharlieCobra · May 25, 2007

SEADANCE, Katrina boats...

nasty stuff there. Good choice to walk away.

Ross · May 25, 2007

With a Katrina boat all you are getting is

a hull and a bunch of hardware that all needs serious work. You will need a 12 yard construction dumpster for all for the trash that has to be removed before you could start moving forward. Probably all of the interior wood is bad and if it was built with a liner ,(as most seem to be)It will be all but imposible to clean the spaces between. My old Islander is a single skin boat. What you see while inside is the inside of the hull. No liner, no place for stuff to grow that you can't gain access to for cleaning.Just as in a house that gets flooded and the sheetrock has to be torn out to allow the cleaning and drying of the walls, a boat that gets swamped must be cleaned and dried or it will stink forever.

sailortonyb Allied Mis · May 25, 2007

Seadance

I'm a Katrina refugee. I claimed my residences in both Slidell and Biloxi. I was there quite often after the storms. A few friends of mine talked me into going with them to the yards to look at boats. Find a Jewish friend and ask them what 'dreck' means...Anyway, a large amount of Katrina boats that were totalled, including mine were still in very good condition, in that they could be repaired with minimal $$$$$. I hadn't seen any of them in the yards. They disappeared quickly. If I had to guess, I would put money that the surveyors that were totalling the boats were probably getting a finders fee from out of the area brokers, and that would explain why all the "good" boats were not around. As for why they were 'totalled', simple.....there were no yards to put them in for repairs or even for storage.Anyway, I ended up buying a boat in Tampa Bay area and Nice N Easy bought his in New Jersey. Some people I know personally, went down to Galveston and Corpus Christi area to buy boats.I wish I knew where my Catalina 30 is. It was a great boat. I updated my e-mail info on the Catalina Owners site so if someone looked up the hull# they could contact me.Anyway, keep on looking, but look FAR FAR from Katrina and Rita. Kemah, Tx. where I am now is I think like the 2nd largest sailing community in the U.S.Its approx 7 Hrs drive from Gulfport. Maybe plan some weekend fun trips and boat shopping along the way.The best way to get started is to go to Yachtworld.com, find some Kemah boats, there will you will get the brokers website and see what all he has listed. The marinas down here are very large ( 600 to 800 boats) and there are lots of marinas. Tony B

SEADANCE · May 25, 2007

Tony B

Thank you for the heads up on this will scout this area. TonyB, can you give me the names of your local newspapers so that I can look up the classifieds too. Feel like I know you from all the good things Nice N Easy said about you during our failed trip to Pensacola.B/Seadance

sailortonyb Allied Mis · May 25, 2007

Seadance

We usually read the Houston Chronicle. Cant think of other papers off hand. I'm offshore right now. Wont be home for another week and a half. Kemah is really kinda like a suburb of Houston. NASA is only a few miles away.As for Phillip................the first man I ever saw change fuel filters in 10 ft choppy seas. He is very humble, literally. If he says 'walk away', you better listen. If you ask him if he knows how to sail, he will tell you...I can get from point A to point B. He is a very knowledgible and capable sailing companion. If he works on your engine........dont watch. We were over 200 miles from the nearest land and had engine problems. It was a new to me boat and the PO had lots of extra junk added. But my heart stopped beating when Phillip came outside after working on the engine and said "you dont really need these" and before i could say anything he THREW THE PARTS OVERBOARD. All I could say was "but....but...but....". Anyway, everything worked fine since then. By the way, I used to keep a boat in the Gulfport Small Craft Harbor also known as Bert Jones Yacht Harbor. I had a small shop in Orange Grove. I really miss Gulfport and Biloxi. Tony B

SEADANCE · May 29, 2007

Draft Size

Quick question guys . We're still having a hard time finding a boat. The ones we love all have draft sizes of 5'3". Our question is... would this draft size be a problem around the islands(Sand, Ship and Chandelier) and thru the back bay here in Biloxi? Who would I call to find this out or has anyonne been thru here that would know?My Thanks,B/seadance

Rick Webb · May 29, 2007

5' to 6' is Doable

Both around the islands and the Back Bay though not as easily as 3' to 4'. Fortunatly it is soft on the bottom so no big danger of damage. The north west corner of both West Ship and Horn Island drop right off and you would be able to get right up to the beach. I would not try sailing around the Back Bay drawing more than 2'. You will learn quickly where it is shallow, often just outside the markers it is only a couple of feet deep yet there is one spot where it is so deep that depth sounders go blank.

Hugh4753 · May 29, 2007

Give this a try

Seadance I know you're in Miss. but try this website (www.towndock.net) it's the web page for Oriental, NC and the marine classifieds have several boats that seem to fit what you've been looking for. The Hunter 30 that is listed has been serviced by Sailcraft Services and they do very good work. It'd be a trek but Oriental is listed as the sailing capital on NC and there are lots of boats for sale there, usually owned and maintained by knowledgable sailors. The guys at Deaton Yacht Sales are great to work with too.

sailortonyb Allied Mis · May 29, 2007

Seadance...Draft Size

I kept my Catalina 30 in Point Cadet Marina. I think my draft was stated as 5-3", not sure exactly, I had the Catalina 30 with the fin keel. Actually, we lived aboard also so we had it weighed down past that. I sailed it all over the Gulf Islands, many many trips to Slidell and also to Bert Jones Yacht Basin in Gulfport. I also motored it all the way up to I-10 in the back bay area of Biloxi as well as sailed most of the Alabama and Florida Coast. When I first met Phillip, it was in Ft Walton Beach and we buddy boated back to Slidell together. He only drew 4 Ft (I think). When we looked for anchorage at night, he went in first and was calling the depths to me over the radio. He always got in about 150 to 200 ft closer than me. He saw 'no wind', I saw just a tad, but not enough to rock the boat, i was still in protected areas. I never really had a problem with the fin keel at 5-3", but i wanted a shallower one this new to me boat and I settled for 4'. They both have their advantages. The shallower keel can get in closer.....so, no big deal. The deeper keel dont side slip as much and you make better time closer to the wind. Does it really make a diff in Ms.......I dont think so. Just dont get anything less than 4'. And thats an important issue to me. Tony B

SEADANCE · May 29, 2007

Back Bay Biloxi

Guys, thank you for the info so far.I got a hold of someone at the Marina at Keesler and all she told me was that at high tide its 7 feet around the marina. She did tell me that generally the waters were low. I am envisioning myself being towed back several times because we are stuck..am I wrong?

Stu Jackson · May 29, 2007

Regardless of what folks may advise you

it would be well worth your while to check the charts. They're on the Internet and the URL is the link.

Ross · May 29, 2007

It has been a very long time but I can't remember

that the MS gulf coast had much of a tidal range. Checked Reeds they indicate about 2 feet at Biloxi Bay but you only get one high tide and one low tide in 24 hours. That is good and not so good you have high water longer so you can time your trips more easily but when you get stuck, you stay stuck longer.

sailortonyb Allied Mis · May 29, 2007

Low Tide

Regardless of what the charts may tell you, the northern Gulf of Mexico tides are determined more by the winds than by the moon or any other tidal event. This is most evident in the winter. When a good northern blows through for a few days, the water near Gulfport and Biloxi really goes down. i mean REALLY goes down. When at Point Cadet, the only time that this may be a problem, you probably wouldnt be out sailing anyway. I cant speak for Keesler, I'm not familiar with their marina. In the summer, really high tides happen when the wind blows from the south strongly for several days. Charts are based on mean lower low tides. Averages work out in the long run, but not on individual days or weeks. Ross, you probably are right about the 2 foot thing overall. Most of the time it seems like the tide moves about 1 foot. We lived aboard over there for about 5 or 6 years and they dont have floating docks. Sometimes, in the winter, me and the admiral had to stretch across and grab the ratlines I made, just so we could get aboard and climb down.There were several women live aboards that were not able to get off the boat on those kind of days because the dock was too high or was it that the gulf was to low, I forget which, LOL. Anyway, fortunately, there are not too many of those days.Seadance, unless this is a problem for you if you keep your boat at Keesler, I would not let the 5'-3'' draft stop me from a purchase.Hopefully, you will contact more Keesler people on here and get more specific information. One of the drawbacks to the back bay is that it will take you a while to get the sails up. That channel is longer than you think, and a whole lot narrower and easy to drift out of than you would like. Also, most of the channel markers were not lighted when I lived there, this was a nightmare coming in at night without radar. Lots of turns. Again, ask Phillip, he knows.OH !!! one more thing. Point Cadet Marina and the other marinas in Biloxi had many tenants that were retired Air Force. I'm not sure what that is telling you, but you might want to go to the other marinas and ask. The Harbor masters will tell you who to ask in person.It kills me to use 'IMHO'. There is not a humble bone in my body. Tony B

Rick Webb · May 29, 2007

Keesler Marina

In the marina it is much deeper than 7' I had 10 to 12 feet at my slip. There would be no problem with going in and out of the marina so long as you hook left a bit when exiting. You will want to enter the channel at about a 90 degree angle not head straight out from the marina to hit the channel at about a 45 degree angle. There is a very low spot straight out from the marina entrance. When coming into the marina just wait til the red and green lights are even with the middle of your boat before you make the turn to port. While in the back bay stay in the channel and you'll have no problems at all. It takes about an hour to get around to the Biloxi Small Craft Harbor. Somwhere I have the phone number for the CSX Bridge they were not very good about answering the radio but always answered the phone. You will not have to worry about the Highway 90 Bridge TenderI have that number as well but nobody would be home. My wife just visited with a former coworker who keeps her boat there at Keesler in fact it is the only sailboat on the west side of the marina I can share your email address with her so you can swap info if you would like.