NO for Tukki Bird

[Stu Jackson]

Good on ya!

Seadance & Family:Glad to hear you're in the process of understanding the process. You wrote: "...and told I slapped them in the face with my questions and offers <grin>..."I agree. We looked for over a year for our boat and we were only looking at one model by one manufacturer! When we found "our" boat, that's opretty much what the PO said to me. He, however, and pleasantly, was smiling when he said this because he knew his boat would be getting a good home.That's when you'll know.Stay with it.And thanks to NnE for his help. This thread and your others should be posted in the Knowledgebase, so the next time WHEN (not if) someone asks...Stu

 

[Hugh4753]

Catalina 30

Lots of 30' Catalina's out there in the $18-$20K range. A friend of mine got an '85 last year and it's a great boat. I think they've built over 7,000 of those hulls.

 

[tom]

19 listed here

19 catalina 30's listed here ranging from $12500 to $47500. It's hard to argue with a catalina 30 for a coastal/lake boat. The $12500 boat was a 1976 it is hard to expect a 31 year old boat to have no problems.

 

[Waffle]

Wow, Wow, Wow

Seadance take your time before you jump into looking for a new used boat. Look for a fire sale. You know, someone getting a divorce or sick and has to sell cheap. I would go no older than a mid 1980s boat. No boats from the 1970 unless it is a classic that has been well taken care of. The sun down where you are eats gel coat for lunch and dinner.If you can afford it think you'll like the 1990 era Hunters or Catalina with a walk through transom. They are so much better for swimming or getting in and out of a dingy.I don’t care what others (old boat owners) think of me. I just want you to get a great boat!

 

[Richard]

Hey, who let you on my 30' Hunter?

You need to try and not get emotionally involved in a boat until after it passes the survey and the PO and you agree to a price. Then, you can piddle in your pants.I found if I could seperate my emotions that I could give an honest look at a boat. Also, understand that every boat looks nice in pictures!! I cannot tell you how many NICE boats I looked at only to be disappointed in the trash I was shown. A nice boat will come from a nice owner that drives a nice car. People are how people are. You live in a well cared for house, drive a well cared for car, then mostl likely you own a well cared for boat.

 

[ChuckThomas]

good luck

My wife and I spent two years looking for a good boat. We looked all over the gulf coast from Panama City to NO. The more we looked the more we learned. Eventually we found a H33 Cherubini in NO for $20k. At first it was the dirtiest (not trashed) boat we had seen. The deck was black from the diesel exaust from the Bally Casino's generater. The owner had been transfered out of country for over a year and the little boat just sat in the slip. The first thing we did after we did initial inspection of the boat was to get a survey from a great guy in Ocean Springs. (email me and I will give you his name... very qualified.) He stresses that he is working for us and not the seller. We looked and talked for about seven hours, (you know how it is here in MS, a friend of a friend becomes a new friend). He got us over to the side and recommended a course of action. There were no major problems he could find. It was just dirty. We got the owner to fix a couple of minor problems and even come down a little in price. We closed the deal and and moved the boat to Mandeville. We worked hard for a month or so cleaning the boat and doing minor repairs and had it almost perfect. Then Katrina. We actually got through with just a little scratch on the side. Miracle. Almost two years later we have our perfect boat.The point that I am trying to make is there are a lot of boats out there. Some good, some bad. Some just plain worthless. If you can find a good broker, he will help you find just the right boat for you. Always get a survey.There are a lot of boats out there that are not on the internet. Most good brokers will know the boats in their area. I would be careful of the Pensacola and New Orleans areas though because of Katrina and Ivan. Alot of people have done cosmetic work to just sell a boat while hiding real problems. Madisonvile and Mandeville have several boats for sale by owner. Might want to ride over there one weekend.Good Luck.

 

[Ross]

Seadance, you have been getting much

advise about which boats to avoid, which ones to seek, but so far no one has suggested that you drag out the books and start studying the problem in an organized manner. So I shall start by suggesting anything by Nigel Calder, or perhaps everything by him. Cruising sailboat kenitics by Danny Greene N.A. is excellant.

 

[Jeff]

Old boats are old

That's why everyone wants to sell them.Pay more for a newer boat that has been taken care of.The evidence is in the details. Use your eyes, nose and ears. A boat that is loved is maintained. The interior should look like the inside of your mom's kitchen. No dirt under the rug, teak oiled, but not too oiled, stainless polished, cushions clean, no sewagediesel stench, all lights work, nothing hanging like wires, panels, etc. no mold in the cooler, grease in the stove, duct tape or sloppy varnish. Then you can check the engine for leaks, strange add-ons, etc and of course the exterior for good gel, sails, stainless, etc. Ship shape!These are useless details on their own however collectively it shows who owned the boat. Then hire the surveyormechanic.Then quiz the owner ruthlessly.Then pay full price for a stunning boat.Then relax and enjoy, and continue the love.

 

[Ross]

Jeff, I have a 1968 Islander hull that will meet

all of you criteria except for the gelcoat. Oh, there is no teak, just oiled cypress. One of the fallacies that we encounter here is that "old" equals neglected and worn out. There is no question that age increases the opportunities for neglect but it does not preordain them. You may find a relatively new boat that has been neglected and abused and you may find an ancient boat that has been cared for by its owners.

 

[Waffle]

I agree with Ross and Jeff

Ross - You may find a relatively new boat that has been neglected and abused and you may find an ancient boat that has been cared for by its owners. TRUE -- that is why you need a survey. Olds are better a new boat is in better shape unless the new boat is a production boat and the older boat is not, or a better built production boat.Old boats are old That's why everyone wants to sell them.TRUE - Kind off. Some boats are classic that with stand the years and are better care for. Production boats tend to have a life span. design flaws weaken the boat no matter how good the owner are to them. They could last 25 year or 75 years depending on the owner care. There is a point where the maintenance cost out weight the value of the boat.NEVER PAY FULL ASKING PRICE!

 

[Jim]

Nothing wrong with an old boat

as long as it was taken care off. All boat need maintenance. If the owner cared about the boat it will show. A good place to look is the cushions. If the cushions are in good shape, I'll bet the rest of the boat is too!

 

[sailaway78]

Have you wondered

All this advice on old vs new is fine, and I guess is fitting in this thread. Why has no one mentioned buying something you can afford. I do not know B & P's financial situtation, it's none of my business. I do know that everyone has a limit on the amount of dollars they can tie up in a boat. Whether it be 20K or 20mil. Everyone has a limit. And believe it or not, there are those who would never consider financing a boat. I know some people who are so strapped with boat payments, insurance and dock fees that the boat basically sits. No money to buy diesel fuel, no money to pay transiet slip fees, so they make the payments and sit. They know how much they can afford to spend, and how much they are willing to spend. Waffle, you say that they should stay with newer boats. Maybe this is true sometimes, but not all the time. I met some people in Oriental last fall, on a 1960's vintage boat, that I would be proud to own, and would sail anywhere. I also believe Ross's boat is a older boat. I have never met Ross, nor have I laid eyes on his boat, but from what I have read I would probably feel the same about his boat. And as I stated previously, lots of people enjoy the fixing up of an older boat, even if they can afford the newest, most high tech thing afloat. It is a labor of love for them. A friend of mine here in New Orleans has a steel hulled 38, that he built. He more than likely saved a bunch of money building it, but I guarantee the eight years it took was not all about saving money. I happen to own a 1980 model S2, which I would put up against anything you could come up with, in terms of maint. cost, relialibity, or whatever other criteria you would like to come up with. This boat is capable of leaving my dock tomorrow, with any destination in mind, with no worries about any system aboard her.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Good Old Boats

Ours is nearing 21 years.GOB is a fine magazine with lots of great information, and is now, as I understand it, available either online or in a CD version with the earlier past issues, which I find may have been more interesting than the newer ones.It's simply a matter of matching expectations to pocketbook, throwing in a little emotion. Sure, right, that simple, and I have a bridge...I think all the posts here have something to offer in terms of what Seadance should be thinking about.Like, how about those books that are out there about how to survey a boat and 20 Small Boats that'll Take You Anywhere by John Vigor.NnE is right, we just don't know what their goals and resources are.What we can do is share what our experiences were, and leave the lecturing out.

 

[Tom s/v GAIA]

It just isn't right, the way

People try to stick it to a buyer, too bad there isn't a "Hall of Shame" we could list their names in. Hang in there guys, your dream boat is out there.Toms/v GAIA

 

[SEADANCE]

In The Water Survey?

This one's new to me. An in the water survey. I wish I could copy and paste the whole thing minus the names on it and the name of the vessel but it won't let me and I'd probably get the boat dealers panties in a bunch. Look at how this was presented: The reason for the survey was to ascertain the physical condition and value of this vessel. A sea trial was not performed. An out of water inspection of machinery and the exterior of the hulls wetted surface area was not performed "as directed". They went thru it with a moisture meter and stated things "appeared servicable". Thats it. Yet they came up with a whopping retail value.The idea of this boat has already been tossed out the window.

 

[AXEL]

Buy from a dealer if possible

I bought the past 3 of my boats from local dealer/marina's. It's kind of like buying a used car from the owner verses a dealer. With the reputable dealer you get a limiter warranty. Even after the sale, any problems were taken care of. In fact, 2 years after the sale I had engine problems and this dealer fixer the motor and got me back out on the water during the peak of the summer when I couldn't even get a marine mechanic to return a phone call. See if there are any local Hunter or Catalina dealer/marina's in your area. Get feedback on them first, and then see if they have any used boats for sale.

 

[Ross]

One of the great values derived from

having rebuilt my boat from a bare hull is that no materr how bad the weather gets I don't have any concerns about the ability of the boat to bring me home. When the weather turns to stink I don't worry about that leaky window or that questionable chainplate because there don't exist. When sailed hard doors that are shut stay shut and doors that are open stay open. Books stay on the shelf. Pota and pans don't clang. Dishes remain in the rack. The worst waves that we encounter are from large boats plowing at hull speed and passing too close. There are some very good hull shapes built into the older boats and if you can find one that has enjoyed good care you will find a treasure. The Alberg 30's are popular here on the bay and about 15 years ago the original owners were selling the fleet because of the age of the owners. These boats had been cared for as meticulously as a fine home and since then have only rarely come back onto the market.

 

[Waffle]

Nice N Easy how much does it cost to

rebuild an old boat? Please include money and time because time is money. You have to include the owners skill set into the equation. Yes, you can find a good old boat from time to time. You have to look around for an old boat in good condition. There all kind of factor that plays into to process of boat condition. Down south boats are kept in the water for years, the sun bakes them and they don't get covered in the winter.Up north boats get pulled out in the winter and covered but water can freeze and cause damage to hose, in the bilge, into the keel and in the core.The older the boat the more possible damage can occur. Core rot is like cancer, the longer the boats life the more it will spread if the leak is not address. The current own of the boat could be great. The hull is waxed, the deck is clean, he purchased brain new cushions and he changed the oil every 100 hours. The problem might be the precious owner did none of this and let water get into the core. I personally like newer boat designs. I believe that engineering advances in CAD/CAM provide boat builders with the tools to make better boats for lower cost. Boat builders have also learned from past mistake and owner feedback. There is a quality factor to many old boats that is not cost effective or performance effective older boats have a claim to. I think that livability factor goes to new boats hands down. They are nicer inside and out.

 

[tom]

Lots of Time

Lots of time is required to fix up an old boat,car,house etc. If you like to work on old things it makes sense. BUT if you like to go sailing and only have so much time then you have to figure that every hour working on the boat is an hour not sailing. Every month working on a boat is a month not cruising. ABILITY I have seen some "improvements" that really reduce the value of a boat. Saw a Pearson 323 that the guy cut out structural bulkheads so that he could have more room. The diesel had died so he bolted a large outboard on the stern....I figured his improvements had made the boat worthless. It takes knowledge and skill to be a mechanic or do fiberglass repairs..quality woodwork just doesn't come naturally. If you can't do it yourself it takes lots of money and time waiting for someone else to do the repairs. I've ran into too many people that have bought project boats that never go sailing. BUT for some working on a boat and dreaming of cruising is as far as they need to go. One guy had worked over 5 years on a hurricane boat. Just the $150/month slip fee adds up to $9000!!! He claimed to have been working on the boat every weekend...you do the math but even at minimum wages that is an expensive boat. And he had never sailed the boat and it was no where near completed. I guess if you are retired and live up north you can do projects during the winter... But if you are retired you could be living the dream instead of working on an old boat and dreaming.

 

[Ross in Tampa]

Waffle... how does one answer that question...

Wow,How much sand does it take to fill up a sack? How big's the sack??? The question you asked can't be answered. There are project boats, there are derelict boats and there are old boats. Some project boats just need a powerwash and a new coat of bottom paint. Some require hull repair, whether it's blisters or soft spots or dock rash. You have to decide what it best for your skill sets.I know that when I was shopping for our sailboat, the condition of the trailer was almost equally important as the condition of the boat. It was just a bonus that the boat was exceptionally clean and well maintained for her vintage. We knew going in that we would have to replace the outboard, even though the old school Honda 4-stroke ran and powered her well. The motor worked great till the day it did. I has since been replaced by a 9.9 Mercury 4-stroke. As far as the design and quality of new versus old boat, I would put my 25 footer up against any new 25 footer in a blow. There is nothing like the security of a heavily laid fiberglass boat. Anyway... there is a boat out there, it will speak to you when you find it. Keep looking Seadance. ThanksRoss in Tampa1979 Oday 25 "Lola"