Nigel Calder: Replace Your Generator by using your main engine

[Genesis V]

Recently I attended a information session with Nigel Calder detailing replacing your generators with new marine technology that uses your main engine instead. It totally makes sense but I think the cost at this time makes it feasible for only larger boats with high energy needs. Below is a link and videos

https://www.integrelmarine.com


Full video.

YouTube


4 minute summary

YouTube


Distant Shores Paul and Sheryl Shard

 

[kloudie1]

Saw that a few months back .. interesting idea, as you say, for larger boats, but really expensive.. Nigel must have given up on the electric propulsion idea, I don't see any new notes on it..

 

[JamesG161]

Well not exactly true what was said in the video.

Power In = Power out - Power loss from efficiency.

Diesel is the power source.

Batteries are Power Storage devices.

Also he forgot WIND Power.
Jim...

 

[dLj]

I'd like to know the cost. The video on the web said it costs about the same as buying a generator, maybe a bit less. I wonder if that includes all the batteries etc. I really liked seeing that they are trying out lithium-ion batteries as I think those are the future of boat batteries.

I'd also like to know more about when you aren't running a modern engine with all the electronics but rather the older engines with no electronics and that also run at lower RPMs. The installation looks large, not conducive to say a 30 to 35 foot boat, but with lithium ion batteries I'm not sure how that would be. I'd certainly like more info....

dj

 

[kloudie1]

The bottom graph shows what this guy is doing.. The bottom line is the horsepower required by the propeller at an RPM and the top line is the amount of power that the engine is able to make at that RPM.. You can see that everywhere on the chart except where the lines cross, the engine is capable of making more horsepower, but what happens in real life is that the governor decreases fuel flow to the injectors and satisfies the little bit of power that is necessary to drive the prop at whatever RPM you set with the lever.. What this dude is doing is loading the engine with the alternator so that the governor has to provide more fuel to the injectors so that an imaginary curve of propeller plus alternator tracks along the top line that is what the engine can produce.. They use a computer to do that, not unlike what someone can do with a programmable regulator on a heavy duty alternator.. I like to run around 2800 RPM; you can see that the engine could make 6 or so more horsepower at that RPM than the prop needs.. so the system could load the alternator with 6 HP worth of electric make, about 4.5 kilowatts, around 300 amperes at 13V given some inefficiency..

 

[JamesG161]

engine could make 6 or so more horsepower

So you need to run you engine plus use its HP capacity to be a generator?

Only savings seen...
1) Maintenance on a 6 HP generator
2) Extra weight aboard.

Savings lost...
1) Bigger Fuel Tank
2) Running engine, even in neutral , while sailing.

I think the World has gone BATTERY crazy!

Short version...

BAT CRAZY

Jim...

 

[capta]

We have 110 vac refrigeration, numerous kitchen appliances for charter cooking, A/C, a watermaker and consume quite a bit of power with 2 computers and various small electronics like phones. When our genset is down, which uses about a half-liter of fuel an hour to produce 8 kW (12hp diesel), we use the high output alternator on the main engine. Then we are limited to around 3kw from the inverter and using an 86 hp diesel to charge batteries at anchor.
This system may be of some value if one is powering a lot, but I don't see the sense if one needs power when the engine isn't running. As far as the Distant Shores video goes, one would think that if one was designing their ultimate cruising, and in this case their income-producing boat, they would pick a design that was a lot more conducive to engine, generator and battery maintenance! We have a real walk-in engine room that if not a pleasure, does not make the engine, genset, watermaker, and battery maintenance a matter of squeezing into a tiny hole or not being able to retrieve a dropped light.
Not much impressed at any cost.

 

[jviss]

"As far as we can tell, the Integrel has no downsides, at all."

RIght.

I like it, but...(fill in the blanks).

No mention of how that alternator is mechanically coupled to the (typical) engine installation. Would require significant custom engineering and fabrication, given the variety of engines and engine installations (spaces).

48V main bank, plus buffer battery.

Otherwise, I like it.

 

[Genesis V]

It would be very interesting to see Maine Sail’s (RC) opinion on the somewhat new electrical technology that’s evolving here.

 

[jviss]

I hate these over-produced, over-hyped websites! Didn't it annoy you that they just don't come to the point, and say what it is?

Here it is:

1. 600A alternator with three-phase AC out;
2. remote rectifier and field control;
3. computerized, real-time power management system;
4. 48V battery bank;
5. DC-DC converter;
6. 12V or 24V buffer battery.

Sound right?

 

[Project_Mayhem]

governor decreases fuel flow to the injector

Governers on fuel injected engines will typically limit air intake or ignition timing. Decreasing fuel flow can lead to incorrect air to fuel ratios. Running lean can lead to engine damage

6. 12V or 24V buffer battery

I wonder why there's a buffer bank when the alternator has AC coming out of it?

 

[dlochner]

. 600A alternator with three-phase AC out;

Where did you see this? All references on the website I saw said it was a DC generator and not an alternator.

I wonder why there's a buffer bank when the alternator has AC coming out of it?

It appears that the DC generator produces 48v DC and is designed to charge a 48v DC battery bank. The 12 v buffer battery is an intermediary battery between the 48v bank and a 12v DC to AC inverter. There is a DC to DC charger between the 48v bank and the 12v bank.

 

[capta]

600A alternator with three-phase AC

I wonder how many hp this represents?

 

[Alan Gomes]

Governers on fuel injected engines will typically limit air intake or ignition timing. Decreasing fuel flow can lead to incorrect air to fuel ratios. Running lean can lead to engine damage

Nope. The governor ties into the fuel rack.

 

[NotCook]

I hate these over-produced, over-hyped websites! Didn't it annoy you that they just don't come to the point, and say what it is?

Yes! I figure the more they talk, the less valid their argument, the more likely I will delete it without watching all the way through, and most certainly will not buy the product.

 

[jviss]

Governers on fuel injected engines will typically limit air intake or ignition timing. Decreasing fuel flow can lead to incorrect air to fuel ratios. Running lean can lead to engine damage

Not on a diesel. First, there's no such thing as "ignition timing" on a diesel, there are no spark plugs. And, diesels don't have throttles, they run at full intake air volume, always. Fuel is limited to control power and speed. The speed control selects an engine speed, and the governor varies fuel supply to regulate the speed with varying loads (power demands).

I wonder why there's a buffer bank when the alternator has AC coming out of it?

The 12 or 24V buffer bank is on the load side of the DC-DC converter, to smooth the DC, like a big capacitor.

 

[jviss]

Where did you see this? All references on the website I saw said it was a DC generator and not an alternator.

In the longer video I watched Nigel explains that it's 3-phase AC out of the alternator and it's rectified in the control box. As I re all he refers several times to it being an alternator. For example, he says there are three wires coming out and it doesn't matter in which order you connect them.

 

[jviss]

I wonder how many hp this represents?

I took a guess, probably a wrong one, at what the alternator rating is. It's impossible to tell directly, since we don't know the voltage or current at the alternator output. But we can infer several things from numbers mentioned in the video.

 

[capta]

I took a guess, probably a wrong one, at what the alternator rating is. It's impossible to tell directly, since we don't know the voltage or current at the alternator output. But we can infer several things from numbers mentioned in the video.

And your guess was?

 

[jviss]

Here's my summary view on this.

1. If I had a boat big enough to accommodate this, I would prefer to have a separate generator. I don't want to run my main engine as a generator. It's big, it's loud, and it's expensive. It's too big for the job. I much prefer a smaller, very quiet generator for AC loads at anchor and charing batts, making DC when underway.

2. If you did this, you'd need a specially engineered, custom mount and coupling for that huge alternator. I can't imagine water pump bearings, or even front crank bearing lasting very long with that load.