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New tactical device

Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Sounds great until the RC decides to ease out 20’ of chain after you’ve punched the ends and lined up the angle.
then just re-ping the boat end. Every thing else the device retains and recalculates the line and bias based on the re-ping.
 

AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
463
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
@Jackdaw, or other knowledgeable contributors: Apologies for hijacking your thread, but I'm curious if there are other mast- or bulkhead-mounted options available at a lower price point that would display just course and speed. The current glut of racing devices is really cool. But when cruising, I don't need start-line early / late timing or the other racing-specific features of MAX, D10, Velocitek, etc.

Come to think of it, when cruising with family, I could just use my labelmaker to print "LATE" and stick it permanently on the bezel. :)

I thought of a retired iPhone in a waterproof case running iRegatta. But my son inherited the old iPhone 5s before I had a chance to try that, so that one will have to wait until the next round of phone upgrades.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
@Jackdaw, or other knowledgeable contributors: Apologies for hijacking your thread, but I'm curious if there are other mast- or bulkhead-mounted options available at a lower price point that would display just course and speed. The current glut of racing devices is really cool. But when cruising, I don't need start-line early / late timing or the other racing-specific features of MAX, D10, Velocitek, etc.

Come to think of it, when cruising with family, I could just use my labelmaker to print "LATE" and stick it permanently on the bezel. :)

I thought of a retired iPhone in a waterproof case running iRegatta. But my son inherited the old iPhone 5s before I had a chance to try that, so that one will have to wait until the next round of phone upgrades.
I feel you.

Most of the combi speed/course devices start around $500. Compass-only devices (solar, backlit) around 300. In a pinch I once taped an old waterproof Galaxy 5 to my mast bracket and ran a ProStart emulator app for a regatta. But that's not a real solution. The real ones are designed and built to resist water, sun, heat, cold, and solid knock. You are going to pay a bit more for that.

Here is more detail. Have a look at the 2019 powerpoint.

 

AaronD

.
Aug 10, 2014
463
Catalina 22 9874 Newberg, OR / Olympia, WA
I feel you.

Most of the combi speed/course devices start around $500. Compass-only devices (solar, backlit) around 300. In a pinch I once taped an old waterproof Galaxy 5 to my mast bracket and ran a ProStart emulator app for a regatta. But that's not a real solution. The real ones are designed and built to resist water, sun, heat, cold, and solid knock. You are going to pay a bit more for that.

Here is more detail. Have a look at the 2019 powerpoint.

Thanks! Very helpful!
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,345
Hunter 216 Kingston
@Jackdaw, or other knowledgeable contributors: Apologies for hijacking your thread, but I'm curious if there are other mast- or bulkhead-mounted options available at a lower price point that would display just course and speed. The current glut of racing devices is really cool. But when cruising, I don't need start-line early / late timing or the other racing-specific features of MAX, D10, Velocitek, etc.

Come to think of it, when cruising with family, I could just use my labelmaker to print "LATE" and stick it permanently on the bezel. :)

I thought of a retired iPhone in a waterproof case running iRegatta. But my son inherited the old iPhone 5s before I had a chance to try that, so that one will have to wait until the next round of phone upgrades.
I have a $3.00 app for my IPhone MotionX-GPS for iPhone Overview | MotionX
that provides the info and perhaps more that you indicate you want. I always have my phone in my pocket when I sail so its there when or if I want to use it.

I don’t know about mounting it on the boat for all the reasons Jackdaw mentioned.
 

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
476
Tillotson Pearson J/36 Southport, CT
then just re-ping the boat end. Every thing else the device retains and recalculates the line and bias based on the re-ping.
But first you have to notice that they eased out the chain. And if you don’t, you end up OCS if you depend upon your screen. And will the other classes give you room to get in there to re-ping if it’s not your start? (Not likely around here!)
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
But first you have to notice that they eased out the chain. And if you don’t, you end up OCS if you depend upon your screen. And will the other classes give you room to get in there to re-ping if it’s not your start? (Not likely around here!)
Well it can't solve ALL your problems! ;^) But you're right, it can get busy with multiple starts. Our RC will only very rarely square the starting line after the first start. If they do, they will drop the on-station flag and announce their intention over VHF. Hard to miss.

Remember you can ping a line from the outside (better that way) and from fairly far away; we sometimes are 50 yards form the boat when we re-ping.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Well, I’ve got a max coming in early April! I’ve been talking with the company and it seems like the firmware is almost done, still just finishing up some of the hardware elements and sourcing. They promised me a user manual as soon as it’s finished.

1501C231-54E3-480D-8F75-E513450B4D51.jpeg


62F35F1D-580A-4DA5-9FB0-D678F72CC627.jpeg
 
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Likes: Hunter216
Sep 22, 2018
1,345
Hunter 216 Kingston
Interesting photos that sort of show the size of the device relative to the persons hand. I realize the dimensions are in the link you posted but I was thinking it was bigger for some reason. Very “readable” screen as the photos were taken outside.

Any idea of what the mounting hardware will be?
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Interesting photos that sort of show the size of the device relative to the persons hand. I realize the dimensions are in the link you posted but I was thinking it was bigger for some reason. Very “readable” screen as the photos were taken outside.

Any idea of what the mounting hardware will be?
yes it does seem small but the digits are probably the same size as most mast mounted instruments. They’ve just been able to reduce the overall device volume.

Regarding the mounting, that’s a good question. I’m hoping they took a cue from the Nautalutics device that uses grooves in the case that are grabbed on to by a clasping mechanism on the mounting panel. It works very very well and is super reliable.

44D23060-D4C5-4224-91B3-779BBA584D28.jpeg
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,345
Hunter 216 Kingston
Looking at the photo of the back of the device it doesn’t show any “connection” points for mounting and the side buttons would need to be accessible to use it so hard to guess how the mount will work. Great package design so they likely have a solid solution, just have to wait and see I guess.

CD905BB7-E9D8-4FC4-95BC-D5F09F94822B.jpeg
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Looking at the photo of the back of the device it doesn’t show any “connection” points for mounting and the side buttons would need to be accessible to use it so hard to guess how the mount will work. Great package design so they likely have a solid solution, just have to wait and see I guess.

View attachment 173440
solid point. And the Image of the mockup offers no help either. I’m betting the final product will have grooves on the side for the mount to grab on to. Its the way ALL of the competitive products do.

833E5417-E29B-4637-A31B-FF7FC6A8C900.jpeg
 
Jan 7, 2014
131
Beneteau 45F5 51551 Port Jefferson
I picked up a B&G vulcan 9 for about $700 after discounts defender in the fall. It has a whole bunch of race features built in and allows you to do similar calculations with the time/distance to the start and lay lines/time to the committee boat or the pin. I can't wait to use it next summer. It will probably take me half the season to learn it all so I won't get rid of my watch and windex just yet.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
OK it's here. Pretty decent device. I'll stay with my RaceGeek on BlueJ, but for a sportboat, this is a contender.

 
Aug 2, 2010
380
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
OK it's here. Pretty decent device. I'll stay with my RaceGeek on BlueJ, but for a sportboat, this is a contender.

Excellent review Clay, it is great to see it in action to understand the process.
Thanks for putting it up here!
 
May 17, 2004
2,529
Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE Havre de Grace
Thanks for the review. Can the screen or the app be configured to show the amount you’re early/late by, rather than the binary indicator? From the video it looked like it was a pretty quick transition from early to late. If it said I was late I feel like I’d want to know whether I’m late by 1 second or 20.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Thanks for the review. Can the screen or the app be configured to show the amount you’re early/late by, rather than the binary indicator? From the video it looked like it was a pretty quick transition from early to late. If it said I was late I feel like I’d want to know whether I’m late by 1 second or 20.
Dave,

it does, but not in time. It shows the early/late gauge in DISTANCE. Note in the lower right of the display, where it shows (at current course and speed) where you will be relative to the line at the gun. The +3 shown here means 3 meters past the line, hence the EARLY indicator.



DD86856D-2518-4E8A-A01C-071C2A256EBA.jpeg
 

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
476
Tillotson Pearson J/36 Southport, CT
Thanks for the review. Can the screen or the app be configured to show the amount you’re early/late by, rather than the binary indicator? From the video it looked like it was a pretty quick transition from early to late. If it said I was late I feel like I’d want to know whether I’m late by 1 second or 20.
What happens at the start when your eyes are busy looking at a screen instead of at the boats around you and what they’re doing? Our competitors don’t allow us the luxury of simply cruising across the starting line “on time” wherever we want to cross it. We could be “on time” with 10 seconds to go and have someone to leeward push us up into the committee boat if we weren’t paying attention. If you don’t want to be early, you have to look around to see what maneuvers are possible to slow yourself down, based on who’s around you, where they are, and what they’re doing. If you’re going to be late it doesn’t matter so long as you’re ahead of the competition. This piece of gear can provide useful information, but simply looking around will tell you whether you’re 1 or 20 seconds late just as well.
 
May 17, 2004
2,529
Beneteau Oceanis 37 LE Havre de Grace
What happens at the start when your eyes are busy looking at a screen instead of at the boats around you and what they’re doing? Our competitors don’t allow us the luxury of simply cruising across the starting line “on time” wherever we want to cross it. We could be “on time” with 10 seconds to go and have someone to leeward push us up into the committee boat if we weren’t paying attention. If you don’t want to be early, you have to look around to see what maneuvers are possible to slow yourself down, based on who’s around you, where they are, and what they’re doing. If you’re going to be late it doesn’t matter so long as you’re ahead of the competition. This piece of gear can provide useful information, but simply looking around will tell you whether you’re 1 or 20 seconds late just as well.
Wait, you mean sailing isn’t just like playing a video game? ;) :poke:

Certainly there needs to be traditional outside the boat situational awareness only complemented by technology, not replaced by it. I would hope crew could glance at the instrument periodically and call input to the skipper as required, while the skipper looks around and takes in all the input he can from wind, approaching boats, etc. Personally I have a hard time judging time/distance, so another tool in the toolbox could be valuable. This product doesn’t really seem targeted at a boat like mine that already has NMEA instruments, but it’s interesting to see what’s out there.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,906
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
What happens at the start when your eyes are busy looking at a screen instead of at the boats around you and what they’re doing? Our competitors don’t allow us the luxury of simply cruising across the starting line “on time” wherever we want to cross it. We could be “on time” with 10 seconds to go and have someone to leeward push us up into the committee boat if we weren’t paying attention. If you don’t want to be early, you have to look around to see what maneuvers are possible to slow yourself down, based on who’s around you, where they are, and what they’re doing. If you’re going to be late it doesn’t matter so long as you’re ahead of the competition. This piece of gear can provide useful information, but simply looking around will tell you whether you’re 1 or 20 seconds late just as well.
that’s the reality for everyone, your fleet isn’t a special situation. In the same vein, these devices are designed by Olympic caliber sailors who get that, and yet bet their livelihoods on this being able to help.

at the end of the day, it’s just DATA. Input to help the brain trust make a call. Will other boats screw with you? For sure? Do you have to factor in your boats acceleration time vs the others? Sure. And more. All part of the game.

but it’s new. Some will adapt their methods to use the new tech, others not. Nothing new there.