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New tactical device

Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Throwing their hat into the tactical device/compass ring is high-end gear maker SailMon, who's kit is normally found on 80-foot superyachts. Their battery powered MAX device looks to be a winner. While late to the party, it seems to have used the time to not make the same mistakes the other have. No boneheaded moves, and lots of smart features. Inductive charging... who would have thought??? I'm going to try and snag one for a review against the current players for my annual report on the industry. This has to be keeping the teams at RaceGeek, Vakonos, Velicitek and Nautalytics up at night. Finally some series competition from a major player in the industry. Will cost less than $1000 when released in April...... get it for 599 Euro if you order now.

sailmon-max-01-350x296.jpg


 
Last edited:
Sep 22, 2018
1,257
Hunter 216 Kingston
Pretty cool!
I don’t race so don’t really understand all of the built in capability but it certainly sounds extensive and easy to interpret. I assume the “LATE” on the bottom portion of the photo indicates there is no current risk of being over early. Just knowing that at a glance has to be advantageous.

The part that amazes is how much sensing and computing power is getting packed into a small space for not a lot of $. The inductive charging and wireless comms lets them build a really sturdy package.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Pretty cool!
I don’t race so don’t really understand all of the built in capability but it certainly sounds extensive and easy to interpret. I assume the “LATE” on the bottom portion of the photo indicates there is no current risk of being over early. Just knowing that at a glance has to be advantageous.

The part that amazes is how much sensing and computing power is getting packed into a small space for not a lot of $. The inductive charging and wireless comms lets them build a really sturdy package.
The LATE indicator is part of what tacticians (and these devices) call 'time to burn' ie, how many seconds at current angle and speed you are from hitting the line at 0:00. An EARLY and LATE indicator is a part of that. Often its a +/- seconds display. The MAX shows distance.

That display is saying currently 1:29 to the gun and (way) LATE, at 0:00 you will be -285 feet from the line and current course and speed. It looks like the boat is reaching down the line (314 on a 314 line) way below it. Turing upwind would make that much better.

I can't wait to see the manual.
 
Oct 22, 2014
12,095
CAL 35 Cruiser Portland OR, moored EVERETT WA
I like my stop watch. Don’t race much. But when given the chance to helm at the last 3 races, we were at speed and crossed the line within 2 seconds of the start horn.

I have always found being ready and having made a couple of timed approaches to the line helps to improve ones start.
 
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Likes: danstanford
Aug 2, 2010
377
J-Boat J/88 Cobourg
This looks awesome Clay, I hope you end up with one to review and that you share the finding with us!
Dan
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I like my stop watch. Don’t race much. But when given the chance to helm at the last 3 races, we were at speed and crossed the line within 2 seconds of the start horn.

I have always found being ready and having made a couple of timed approaches to the line helps to improve ones start.
I like my stop watch. Don’t race much. But when given the chance to helm at the last 3 races, we were at speed and crossed the line within 2 seconds of the start horn.

I have always found being ready and having made a couple of timed approaches to the line helps to improve ones start.
These types of devices have value all over the racecourse. Tracking shifts is probably the biggest. But also heel angle, downwind polar sailing, recording boat data for post-race review, etc.

At the start, uncontested and being able to see the boat and pin, any decent sailor should be able to put their boat near the line at 0:00. Thats not were the problem is. The trick is when surrounded by a large fleet of very good boats, to the point where the ends of the line are obscured bu other boats trying to do the exact same thing. And you have some hotshot pushing you up. Thats where distance and time to a line you cannot see really matter.

12-j70-start-steven-lapkin (1).jpg
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
This looks awesome Clay, I hope you end up with one to review and that you share the finding with us!
Dan
Me too! I'm talking to them now.

I'm planning on getting a sportboat over the winter, 7.5 meters or less. Several in mind. The MAX might be ideal... but ideal is a moving target!

For your 88 I'd really look at the racegeek. Its size is perfect, and its ability to interface with existing instruments (and use & display that data) make it a clear winner. I have one on BlueJ and love it. The crew calls it the Jumbotron. And no matter how good the MAX is, it will not replace that.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,257
Hunter 216 Kingston
I’m curious how you program the device so that it knows where the line is. Does the race committee publish GPS coordinates for the race or do you position your boat at the ends of the line and hit a key?
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I’m curious how you program the device so that it knows where the line is. Does the race committee publish GPS coordinates for the race or do you position your boat at the ends of the line and hit a key?
The latter.

All of the devices that do line calculations work basically the same; they have you sight across the mast, using the RC boat and pin as transits. Then they use those coordinates and some basic geometry to suss out where the line is. The device does not need to know or care how long the line is, it just needs to know WHERE. Smarter devices like the Geek use boat speed and bow angle to very accurately calculate the bow offset when pinging the line; with older devices you have to be much more careful. Here is the process explained in the RaceGeek manual.

474EC810-C3F0-4900-BD6F-0F8BA6E7A89F.jpeg
 
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Sep 22, 2018
1,257
Hunter 216 Kingston
The latter.

All of the devices that do line calculations work basically the same; they have you sight across the mast, using the RC boat and pin as transits. Then they use those coordinates and some basic geometry to suss out where the line is. The device does not need to know or care how long the line is, it just needs to know WHERE. Smarter devices like the Geek use boat speed and bow angle to very accurately calculate the bow offset when pinging the line; with older devices you have to be much more careful. Here is the process explained in the RaceGeek manual.

View attachment 172793
Thanks for explaining. I would guess that there might be a little mayhem before race as boats try to get into a position to do this. Maybe just a warm up for the actual start ;)

I have an app on my IPhone called Theodolite that might prove useful. I use it for hiking to take photos of interesting landmarks.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Thanks for explaining. I would guess that there might be a little mayhem before race as boats try to get into a position to do this. Maybe just a warm up for the actual start ;)
Yes it can be, in particularly in big high-end fleets were everyone wants to be:
Taking nose-to-wind wind shots (as often as possible)
Running the line
Pinging the line

Thats workable in a single start, 5 minute sequence. At WYC we run 7 starts in a rolling 3 minute sequence. That means only for 3 minutes is the line 'yours', and the RC wants boats to stay clear beforehand.
 
Sep 22, 2018
1,257
Hunter 216 Kingston
Are there ever any “ official fouls” during this data gathering process or is it just more like Gordie Howe elbows out hockey? ;)
 
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Apex

.
Jun 19, 2013
910
Oday 28 Traverse City
did I read heart rate monitor JD?
i think one downfall to race replay, is it is better if the entire fleet is using the same app, GTYC uses raceQ for the Melges fleet. we can watch the entire race back at the club.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Are there ever any “ official fouls” during this data gathering process or is it just more like Geordie Howe elbows out hockey? ;)
it sure happens. Any foul after the prep signal (while Racing) is protestable, but may be absolved by doing your turns, OK to do them before the start.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
did I read heart rate monitor JD?
i think one downfall to race replay, is it is better if the entire fleet is using the same app, GTYC uses raceQ for the Melges fleet. we can watch the entire race back at the club.
RaceQs is a great app. We use it at WYC as well. But nothing about using a MAX prohibits a boat from having the RaceQs app running as well.

The device has BTLE, so heart-rate monitoring would be possible.
 
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Likes: Apex
Feb 21, 2017
4
Catalina 445 Herrington Harbor South
I’ll try it. @Velocity 445 Racing we are currently using SailRacer.net on a few IPads. There is a great visual of the start line on the chart, then a pace line on the screen that leads you to the start.
 
Nov 8, 2010
10,843
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I’ll try it. @Velocity 445 Racing we are currently using SailRacer.net on a few IPads. There is a great visual of the start line on the chart, then a pace line on the screen that leads you to the start.
Thanks for pointing that out. I knew of the app, but kinda forgot that they have a hardware solution as well. I wonder how that e-reader technology holds up on the boat? Not that much money to find out.

That's the reason I'm not a big fan of the tablet-based app solutions; these devices were not designed to be used in an active on-deck environment. Heat, cold, water, salt, and the occasional hard knock will end the life of most.
 

PaulK

.
Dec 1, 2009
457
Tillotson Pearson J/36 Southport, CT
Sounds great until the RC decides to ease out 20’ of chain after you’ve punched the ends and lined up the angle.