Need your opinion. Help me spend my money
- Thread starter dennisv
- Start date
Sails are held up by the mast and the mast is held up by the standing rigging. If that is still original then I would replace it
Good point! A good inspection is due first. Age is not everything. Rigs are said to last 15 years, but not all rigs sail in the same conditions. A good inspection runs the length of each cable, looks for meat hooks, rust, considers stretch, looks for corrosion, kinks, any weaknesses...
You would never be wrong to replace it after 15 years, but you might not be right. You see, the boat is not either/or, black/white... it needs some judgment.
"winchers" are a complete waste of money. You need a stripper arm to convert to self tailing....if you're racing the standard winches are way faster and simpler to use... so, unless the winches are broken, drop them on your priority list until you've replaced the standing rigging, upgraded the sails and installed a reliable auto pilot.
@dennisv Yes the sails have it.
You will be amazed at the way your boat preforms with new sails.
You will be amazed at the way your boat preforms with new sails.
Wait a minute here. How do we know if the sails have ever been used? Look them over before throwing them out. A sailmaker can tell just by touching the fabric how much use they have had. Money is precious, spend it wisely. Also, ale is better than beer. Beer is for children. My current favorite Ale is Smithwicks Red Ale. Lower alcohol (drink many), not over-hopped like IPA's, and still bubbly foam right to the end. Available everywhere.
First things first. Smithwick is very good. First had it when I kept my boat in Canada, way before the popularity of craft beers. In Canada you had to buy your beer at "The Beer Store". Truly that is what they were called, and the only product they carried, so their offering/selection was hugh. Saw beers I had never seen before.
Thanks for the suggestion/reminder for checking the standing rig. My ODay has spent its entire life on the Great Lakes in fresh water, so we do not have the concern for corrosion. The environment for the metal is not as severe as with salt water. Lake Michigan "Unsalted - Shark Free".
Was leaning toward the self-tailing winches, but now rethinking that. I'm in my late 60's and noticing a very small amount of arthritis in my hands. Not concerned about the arthritis, but that is what started this whole idea. But with statements like "you will be amazed at the way your boat performs", I'm rethinking. There is a couple of boats in that 6, 8, 10 boat racing group I'd like to go after. I'm just saying.
Thanks for the suggestion/reminder for checking the standing rig. My ODay has spent its entire life on the Great Lakes in fresh water, so we do not have the concern for corrosion. The environment for the metal is not as severe as with salt water. Lake Michigan "Unsalted - Shark Free".
Was leaning toward the self-tailing winches, but now rethinking that. I'm in my late 60's and noticing a very small amount of arthritis in my hands. Not concerned about the arthritis, but that is what started this whole idea. But with statements like "you will be amazed at the way your boat performs", I'm rethinking. There is a couple of boats in that 6, 8, 10 boat racing group I'd like to go after. I'm just saying.
I know we’ve had this “debate” before. I think Stu chimed in the last time in favor. I said I used the winchers on me P-30 for several years. They do work, minimally, to the point that you can have one hand on the wheel or tiller, and the other trimming, w/o the need for a tailer. Buy ‘em, try ‘em, and then return ‘em if you don’t like ‘em. Yes, the weak point is that the winch has to be fully loaded for the one-hand trimming. And, at some point, you’ll wish to stop-off the sheet to a cleat rather than have it secured only by the pressure on the gripper atop the drum. It may begin to slip some under sustained load. But a total waste of money, compared to the thousands one has to pay for a pair of self-tailers that you can get by w/o? There’s your major waste of money on a 28-ft boat. The winchers are a sailor’s tool for short-handed work, or to reduce briefly the amount of strength you have to use to trim, etc.
A once in a life-time upgrade the man said. Should treat himself to a new suit of sails, as others have agreed.
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Dennis beer is for drinking not seeing. It is a subtle but important difference.
You know the old saying “I came, I saw, I drank!” Believe it may be a Benjamin Franklin quote.
If arthritis is affecting your grip, ST winches will allow you to use both hands on the winch handle when you don't have help to tail the sheets.
If you can't use the winches, new sails won't help much.
I sail a 1988 O’Day 322 that still has her original main sail. The genoa was replaced the year I before I bought her, but the main is original.
I have self-tailing winches, and really appreciate them since I single-hand a lot.
I think if I was in your shoes, I would do the sails first. As someone pointed out earlier, you will need to replace the sails (they will eventually deteriorate and tear). Winches, if maintained, will last forever. They may not be the most user-friendly, but they will do their job.
Greg
I have self-tailing winches, and really appreciate them since I single-hand a lot.
I think if I was in your shoes, I would do the sails first. As someone pointed out earlier, you will need to replace the sails (they will eventually deteriorate and tear). Winches, if maintained, will last forever. They may not be the most user-friendly, but they will do their job.
Greg
If arthritis is bothering you a bit... then get a palm handled, 10" winch handle. The grip change is easier on the wrist. Also, get in the habit of "ratcheting" the winch rather than going full circle... which is very difficult on the joints. One hand on the palm/knob grip and the other for tailing. Installing a cam cleat at proper height and angle to the winch will make this single handed task even more efficient. The extra length handle will give you more power.
@Benjammin adding more wraps will make your winch appear to function like a self tailing winch. The wraps help to add friction between the line and the drum. That is what the self tailing apparatus does. To work properly it needs to strip off the line as it comes in yet maintain the friction.
Otherwise the line bunches up, loosens on the drum and then mayhem. Even new out of the box self tailing winches need a couple of wraps to work. If the wind picks up and you only have a single wrap the winch will not function.
Time for plan B.
Otherwise the line bunches up, loosens on the drum and then mayhem. Even new out of the box self tailing winches need a couple of wraps to work. If the wind picks up and you only have a single wrap the winch will not function.
Time for plan B.
First, I agree with the consensus that sails will be the single best improvement to a sailboat owner's enjoyment. Even if you don't race, it's lousy to have old, baggy sails that push you over more than accelerating the boat.
For the self-tailers, ave you considered used? I'll bet you can get a decent deal on eBay, if you don't mind restoring things. I looked, and anything under 40:1 can be had for under a grand, and that's way overkill for your application.
For the self-tailers, ave you considered used? I'll bet you can get a decent deal on eBay, if you don't mind restoring things. I looked, and anything under 40:1 can be had for under a grand, and that's way overkill for your application.
With all of the boats destroyed by the storms in recent years there has to be a great used market out there.
I did the used self tailing winches off E-Bay, but I had a broken cracked primary, so there was an additional reason to upgrade.
New to me Used Harkens
Busted old winch.
If your not racing, and your sails are not falling apart, self tailing winches make sailing short crewed a lot easier.
New to me Used Harkens
Busted old winch.
If your not racing, and your sails are not falling apart, self tailing winches make sailing short crewed a lot easier.
Found this in a reconstructed BB16 service manual from the Aloha Owners Association:
“Self Holding: A feature of this winch is its unique tailing and self holding ability under load. The winch may be used by one person only. To operate, utilise the full height of the drum barrel using enough turns of the sheet until it jams against the underside of top flange. Do not allow the tail end to advance further than one turn.”
Seems to work okay, though I do have to encourage the line to strip off at times.
“Self Holding: A feature of this winch is its unique tailing and self holding ability under load. The winch may be used by one person only. To operate, utilise the full height of the drum barrel using enough turns of the sheet until it jams against the underside of top flange. Do not allow the tail end to advance further than one turn.”
Seems to work okay, though I do have to encourage the line to strip off at times.