Need Help, Epoxy recommendations - Keel and Tabbing repair

Davidasailor26 · Tuesday at 2:49 AM

This is two different types of repairs and probably best to use two different products. For the keel repair you’re on the right track - clean off the rust and get to bare metal. Some people use a metal treatment like Ospho to convert any last traces of rust to stable metal. I skip that step on my iron keel, but it can help ensure you have a good surface for the epoxy to bond to. After that, and quickly before any new oxidation can form, you coat the keel with a barrier coat epoxy. Barrier coats are epoxy with specific fillers to help build up the right thickness while remaining waterproof. Interlux Interprotect or TotalBoat Total Protect are probably two of the most common for this. If the surface is rough after removing the rust you could apply an epoxy fairing compound like Total Fair to smooth the surface after the first coat of barrier coat. Then build up more coats of barrier coat to ensure the surface is waterproof. The product instructions will say how many coats and the target thickness.

For the tabbing repair you’ll probably be using a more structural epoxy without filler. West Systems and TotalBoat each make good products for this. West Systems has a guide that goes into a lot more detail on this type of repair and that’s a good reference, and TotalBoat has some guides and videos as well. Since you’ll be in colder temperatures you’ll want the fast hardener for whichever product you choose, but even then you’ll need everything to be at least 40 degrees for a proper cure.

Project_Mayhem · Tuesday at 5:09 AM

For a beginner I would recommend West Systems or TotalBoat epoxy. I've used both and I can't tell the difference. TB is cheaper so I'd go for that. I would recommend picking up some West Systems 404 filler. The filler can be sanded so it can be used as a fairing compound. It will take longer to sand but for a starter kit, it will work well.

90% of your repairs can be done with fiberglass tape. This is the same cloth/mat you can buy in a sheet but in a 4-6" wide roll. 1708 is great for heavy duty repairs but requires a bit more finessing to get it completely saturated than your typical cloth. Either can be used for your tabbing project but I'd lean more towards recommending the cloth for a beginner

The above products will give you a pretty good starting kit.

jssailem · Tuesday at 9:26 AM

Carl. The “Keel” images look like an original swing keel on the Catalina 22. You want to remove the rust. You can use epoxy filler (total boat would be a good source. Follow their instructions to assure a good bond to the keel metal) to provide a smooth and good shape to the keel. Measure the available space of the Keel Trunk so that the refurbished keel will fit back in the trunk after your repairs.

Once shaped I’d follow @Davidasailor26 ’s recommendations for an epoxy barrier coat. Then you can apply bottom paint. Again be sure of your trunk tolerances you don’t want to get it all done only to find that the repairs made the keel to fat to fit.

Project_Mayhem · Tuesday at 9:29 AM

jssailem said:
Measure the available space of the Keel Trunk so that the refurbished keel will fit back in the trunk after your repairs.

Heed this warning! I've been in this situation. For two years it took a couple of weeks for my cb to drop. Leave some extra clearance if you can

Davidasailor26 · Tuesday at 9:29 AM

Also, for the tabbing repair, you might find you have a sharp inside corner where the two surfaces meet after you remove the old tabbing. Fiberglass doesn’t like to make sharp turns like that, so you may need to add an epoxy fillet to smooth the corner. To make the fillet you can use whatever epoxy you’re going to use for the glass layup, thickened with something like colloidal silica.

Davidasailor26 · Tuesday at 9:33 AM

jssailem said:
Once shaped I’d follow @Davidasailor26 ’s recommendations for an epoxy barrier coat. Then you can apply bottom paint. Again be sure of your trunk tolerances you don’t want to get it all done only to find that the repairs made the keel to fat to fit.

Lol, who would make a silly mistake like that

. Certainly not me. I’ve never built a centerboard for a sailing dinghy, faired it, and painted it, only to find I’d built up too much fairing compound to fit in the trunk. Nope, never happened, nothing to see here

jssailem · Tuesday at 9:43 AM

Way back before I can remember, I got a tee shirt for that. :facepalm:

Project_Mayhem · Tuesday at 10:01 AM

At least I'm not the only one who made this mistake! Mine was too wide by a hair. Eventually the issue solved itself as the fairing compound wore away with use

jssailem · Tuesday at 10:44 AM

I can check the storage to see if I have a second tee shirt.

shemandr · Tuesday at 12:58 PM

A trick I saw on the Off Center Harbor site for doing fillets was to make a "Tool" to form the curve you want out of scrap wood. The tool made it fairly easy to get a round shape with minimal ungulations which fiberglass tape doesn't like either. You can join for a 2 week trial membership. This builder was an artist with filled epoxy. It would be worth the time to watch. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the video.
If you don't want to make many of these templates make one of plastic or check online to see if anyone is selling them. Maybe that would be a good 3d printer project. Like this but with a radius good for a fitted.

https://www.westmarine.com/3m-filler-spreader-11657392.html

Davidasailor26 · Tuesday at 2:45 PM

shemandr said:
A trick I saw on the Off Center Harbor site for doing fillets was to make a "Tool" to form the curve you want out of scrap wood. The tool made it fairly easy to get a round shape with minimal ungulations which fiberglass tape doesn't like either. You can join for a 2 week trial membership. This builder was an artist with filled epoxy. It would be worth the time to watch. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the video.
If you don't want to make many of these templates make one of plastic or check online to see if anyone is selling them. Maybe that would be a good 3d printer project. Like this but with a radius good for a fitted.

https://www.westmarine.com/3m-filler-spreader-11657392.html

It is good to use a tool like that. TotalBoat sells stir sticks that have sharp corners on one side for stirring and rounded corners on the other side for smoothing things like fillets. Another option is a tongue depressor.

The other trick for fillets is to put the thickened epoxy into a plastic bag, ideally like a pastry piping bag. Cut the corner off and squeeze the epoxy into a neat row.

danooxnard · Wednesday at 3:37 AM

This is one of the best keel write ups I have seen on the C-22.. Thanks to pclarksurf!

The Many Stages of Keel Bracket Assembly (a photo retrospective) Part 1,2 and 3

We took a deep dive on Keel -- but for those contemplating replacing and manipulating your keel hanger brackets/ pin and surrounding surfaces: I've outlined my progress migrating from the old style assembly (1973) to the new (CD purchased). Step 1) Evaluate your existing circumstances. This...

forums.sailboatowners.com

Dan

dlochner · Thursday at 6:07 AM

Carl Wonderful said:
Can you expand on how the bottom paint comes into the equation...Is it totally necessary and do you have any recommendations for what are best options? I have never used bottom paint. I've never used any of this stuff actually, lol...

Bottom paint is antifouling paint. If the boat is left in the water for any length of time all kinds of growth will happen depending on where the boat is located. It will start with a green slime and may include barnacles, mussels, and other critters. In freshwater the algae growth is the biggest issue. All the growth slows down the boat and makes it less fun to sail.

As for particular paint, every harbor and marina has different conditions and the growth will vary with those conditions. Talk to the people in the marine where the boat will be docked and see what they use. If you only trailer the boat and/or leave it in the water for a few days, anti-fouling paint isn't necessary. It also isn't necessary if you plan on cleaning the bottom every week or so, which will quickly become an annoying practice.

mermike · Thursday at 6:31 AM

shemandr said:
A trick I saw on the Off Center Harbor site for doing fillets was to make a "Tool" to form the curve you want out of scrap wood. The tool made it fairly easy to get a round shape with minimal ungulations which fiberglass tape doesn't like either. You can join for a 2 week trial membership. This builder was an artist with filled epoxy. It would be worth the time to watch. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the video.
If you don't want to make many of these templates make one of plastic or check online to see if anyone is selling them. Maybe that would be a good 3d printer project. Like this but with a radius good for a fitted.

https://www.westmarine.com/3m-filler-spreader-11657392.html

Just cut a piece of dowel at an angle and you're good to go. Fill the corner with a mix of epoxy and filler. Smooth it with your dowel, lay the fiberglass tape over it and brush neat epoxy over it with a chip brush. The diameter of the dowel should be >1/2". The larger the diameter, the more filler will be required. More is not necessarily better, as the strength is in the fiberglass, not the filler.

Boatworks Today is a very good YouTube site for all things fiberglass. Here's the video on fillers: Epoxy Fillers Guide: How & When to Use Fillers – TotalBoat

Project_Mayhem · Thursday at 6:51 AM

Syringes are also very handy for filling in small gaps. TotalBoat has them for about $1 each with free standard shipping or very reasonable express shipping

Barrier paint, is used under bottom paint to prevent blisters in the fiberglass. As @dlochner stated, this is not necessary for a trailer sailor. However, removing bottom paint to apply barrier paint, is not a small project

jssailem · Thursday at 9:14 AM

Carl Wonderful said:
how the bottom paint comes into the equation

It appears that in your signup description, you are sailing on Lake Arthur. I do not know where that is. If I assume that Lake Arthur is a freshwater lake, then using bottom paint might be an option you can avoid, especially if you do not leave the boat in the water full-time.

While fiberglass is water-resistant, it is not impervious. Bottom paint provides a film barrier that enhances the resistance as long as the paint film remains intact. In fresh water, there are limited critters that can attach themselves to your hull. There is sometimes slime and algae, but nothing like what happens in salt water.

Project_Mayhem · Thursday at 10:16 AM

Zebra muscles, if present in your fresh water lake, can attach themselves by the hundreds or thousands. pressure washing the bottom is standard practice to clean a boat at haul out. Trailer sailors typically do not have to worry about this

Need Help, Epoxy recommendations - Keel and Tabbing repair

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