My general purpose thread for various questions

[c_witch]

Hiee,

More and more questions. On the other hand I have never had a trailerable sailboat before .

Firstly. l intend to install a fixed vhf and mast mount the ant. for maximum range. I can see a time when this boat will be crossing the gulf of maine and the florida straights . I know that there are waterproof electrical connectors?(water resistant maybe) for masthead lights. What I am curious about is if there is a waterproof connector for the vhf ant cable. I will be bringing the mast wiring out beside the mast step and thru a short goose neck and leaving 12'' of wire/ant lead for connection to the feeds coming down from the masthead.

Secondly. This is a trailer boat and likely will NOT be moored during the season. What are the thoughts on using a 2 part expoxy tinted to do the bottom coat? I am thinking of using 2 coats.
The previous owners did a lousy job of maint and just seemed to slap one coat of paint on after another, what a mess. In short I think I will use sandblasting to peel it off. Before anyone freaks let me say that I have sandblasted in the past but not on fibreglass.

Thirdly. The house bank will consist of 2 100 amphour batteries located at the aft of the cabin sole and right under the cabin hatchway weight about 90 lbs. This places them about 3 feet aft of the external keel box and centered on the keel. I am thinking of installing at least a 10 gallon water tank under the forward v berth weight 100lbs(when filled). This will be about 4 feet forward of the external keel box and again centered on the keel. Does the balancing seem right? and yes I am aware that the batteries are a constant weight and yet the water weight will diminish in time as it is used up.

We are trying to set this boat up for crusing and are not concerned about trying to get top speed out of her, but also we don't wish to degrade her speed to any great deal.

Merry Christmas all and Happy Sailing

PS in the attatched pics looking aft the batteries will set on the finished sole setting perpendicular to the centerline one on each side of the swingkeel cable tube.

PSS the water tank is to go into the storage directly in front of the forward end of the cabin sole and will be turned so that its length is perpendicular to the centerline.

 

[Sumner]

I've sandblasted also, my complete truck, frame and body inside and out, and I don't think I would do that to the gel coat. I painted the bottom of our boat before this last trip. It had never been painted before, so I had to de-wax and then sand the bottom with 80 grit. I then used 2 coats of Tuff-Stuff and then 2 coats of black bottom paint followed by 1 dark blue. I did this to avoid the situation you are describing. If I had what you are faced with I guess I would just have to get out the DA and sand away back down to the gel coat.

If I was even thinking about blasting I would check to see if one of the media blasting options would work. Don't forget that sand blasting will in-bed silicone into the glass. Probably not good.

On the water we have our boat loaded down probably more than any Mac 26S has been before. We had 44 gallons of water on the boat for the last trip, food for over a month, 19 gallons of gas in the tank, all kinds of tools (3 big tool boxes full). I even had a crimper and stainless wire to make up a new shroud if needed. I had put all new ones on the boat before the trip, but wanted to make sure my work was good before I decided to leave that stuff off the boat. We haul all of our trash and human waste for a month on the boat. We had lots of cloths. 3 anchors with rodes and other 200 foot shore lines. Get the idea!

I had raised the waterline stripe 1 inch when I painted the bottom and it was right up to the top of the stripe, so we were down in the water. I loaded the boat thought so that it was flat in the water side to side and end to end. The water was in 7 4 gallon reliance containers and 2 gallon ones with one hooked to the sink. We also had a couple 1 gallon jugs as we like to use out of those when possible and also re-fill those when we transferred water during the trip from the 4 gallon containers to the one hooked to the sink. We also moved things around to keep the boat balanced in the water. Having separate water containers helps with that.

We didn't resupply during the month except for a couple 1/2 gallons of milk and wouldn't of needed those. We ended up with about 12-14 gallons of water. We did put 6 gallons of gas in the tank once when we found a place that had non-ethanol gas since we didn't know when that would happen again.

Performance wise I think the added weight would hurt on short tacks into the wind, but not so much on top speed. We actually could feel that the boat felt more stable than before, so for us that was a plus as Ruth is still trying to get more comfortable with the heeling deal.

Good luck and we have found out that you can set up a smaller boat for long trips without the need to keep visiting marinas and the such if that is what your goal is. With the frig we got rid of the last thing that was tying us to a schedule or to a particular route,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Re the waterproofing of coax connectors, you can read all the options in the following link:

http://www.eham.net/articles/17553

Clearly, there are a few good options from which you can choose but also remember to always use good quality PL259 connectors and properly solder, don't crimp, them.

 

[caguy]

Re the waterproofing of coax connectors, you can read all the options in the following link:

http://www.eham.net/articles/17553

Clearly, there are a few good options from which you can choose but also remember to always use good quality PL259 connectors and properly solder, don't crimp, them.

Dittos!
The only thing I might add is that it was suggested to me by a couple of ham operators to use RG8X cable to minimize the loss of signal.
Here is a nice video on PL259 installation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzXXjzmA-IE

 

[David in Sandusky]

Weight

You already have great answers!

Adding weight low, balanced, on the centerline and within four feet of the keel will not effect trim. Weight in the bow or stern can increase the tendency to hobby horse in a seaway, but your proposal seems fine. More weight will increase wetted surface and therefore drag, but you need the water and batteries, so you will have to carry them somewhere!

Didn't comment on your battery charging thread, but will now. We have cruised the Great Lakes for 11 summers now on our '77 h27 with just one battery. It is recharged only by the alternator on our inboard diesel. You will be surprised how much you will be motoring, even with a dedication to sailing, and no time restrictions. So an alternator on your outboard could play a key role for you. We use rechargeable AA batteries for our GPS's and they provide the anchor watch if we need one. But we are comfortable without the watch if our overweight Bruce has a good set in mud or sand in a protected anchorage, so the GPS is on less than 10% of our nights on the hook.

I understand that you are enjoying your refit of the boat this winter, but be sure to get her out on the water as soon as you can. Sailing her, and overnighting a few times will guide you to good design solutions on most of your decisions.

 

[Sumner]

Instead of the solder on coax connectors I decided to try these from Shakespeare....

http://www.shakespeare-marine.com/connectorshow.asp?menupick=PL-259-CP-G

.....They go on quick and so far so good, but haven't used them that long. I have enough extra cable up the mast that even if I had to replace them every couple years and cut an inch or so off of the cable it wouldn't be a big deal.

We also are using the RG-8X cable...

http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|49758|316478&id=1050634

.... and tried to keep the run as short as possible and moved the new VHF....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/inside-25.html

.....into the console above the sink right at the base of the mast. I left the old VHF in the boat right under the companionway steps and it is still attached to its antenna on the stern as a backup. We also have a good handheld that can be used in the cockpit or dinghy if needed.

The new one above the sink has DSC and is attached to the Cuda 350 GPS depth finder...........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor-navigation/Cuda 350.html

............... in the cockpit and gets our current GPS location from it. We felt that this was a good safety feature for us. I still have to get our personal number for the DSC feature on the VHF. I forgot to do that before our last trip .

Have fun with the mods,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[c_witch]

Smiles

Hiee everyone,

I would like to thank everyone who has replied to my threads so far. Your boats are just so beautiful, I can only hope that ours will turn out to be so nice. For the hull blasting I really had only hoped to use it to remove the built up paint down to the original paint and rather then sand likely use soda instead. Thanx all for the info about the cable for the ant. I was hopping that maybe there was some type of rubber boot that would fit over the connection as this boat (this year coming) will likely be launched on the weekends and hauled out again on the Sunday. I really don't want to have to cut thru 3 layers of tape to undue the connection each and every time I lower the mast . I still can't decide if I should move the galley aft to the cabin bulkhead and loose the starboard berth, typical huh guys . That would allow me to make a starboard storage locker under the starboard cockpit seat though as well as making the galley way more usable then the current configuration. I'm also thinking of using a small 2 burner propane camp stove. I would likely build a tank storage in the starboard side of the aft locker with a thru hull at the bottom to vent any leaking gas. I'm not sure what to use for the gas line though ie rubber or metal although I am tending towards the rubber line. Either way I think I'd use a piece of PVC glassed in against the hull to run the line thru.

I guess for the first 3 or 4 times we launch her we shall confine ourselves to the Bedford Basin and safety of Halifax Harbour until we get the feel for her and then venture out to the open ocean. Most if not all of our sailing will be coastal sailing in the North Atlantic. There are just so many beautiful spots along the Eastern shore here to explore as well as the numerous inlands.

Again thank you all for being so friendly and helpful ,
Brina and Sasha
Happy Sailing

 

[Sumner]

I'd like to add a couple things to maybe think about and I realize that all of our needs and wants are different, so this might not be something that you would want to do.

You, like us have a fairly small boat and I believe that to make one of these work on longer trips, say past 4-5 days you need to realize that you can't make it do the same things that your home does for you. For example when we first started looking Ruth always would say "does that boat have a shower". Well having a dedicated shower in a boat 26 foot or less is pretty impractical from the standpoint of the space it takes, and the water required and possibly how to heat that water.

Once we got out on the water and started the day off with me washing both of our faces with 'cold' water and every couple days heating a little hot water on the stove and giving each other 'sponge baths' and washing each other's hair over a plastic tub the shower is no longer mentioned. We are clean and also closer doing this.

Now I know you didn't mention a shower, but what I'm leading up to is maybe re-think the separate head. You will find that you need all the room you can get for sleeping, eating and storage and a separate head will consume a lot of real estate that could best be used for other things. Also the enclosed heads on a boat of our size is usually awkward and impractical to actually use. Then unless you are going to be offshore where you can dispose of waste directly you are going to have to plan your trips around where are you going to pump out every few days.

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-1.html

We got rid of our head and move it to the cabin which made the v-berth now usable for us and opened up the huge aft berth on our Mac S for storage. Also we now had storage where the head was under the.........

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-5.html

.... enlarged V-berth and also storage that.......

................ wraps around the head of the bed.

Ruth loves the new head where there is now room to 'operate' and it has a real seat on it. We use Double Doodie bags for storage and that allows us to go over a month if we want before having to find a place to dispose of the bags. There is no cleanup and it takes about 2 minutes to change bags. I was really skeptical of this system when I first read about it, but it and the frig now means we keep the schedule and route we want with no restraints.

Also we do all of our food prep,.............

.............. cooking, eating and cleanup sitting down. I work from one side of the cabin and Ruth the other. I made a....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor/inside-19.html

....3 leg table that moves anywhere in the cabin we need it and quickly stores out of the way. This was one of the simplest things I made, but one of the most convenient. No matter where you put a table you will always need it some place else sooner or later and this one moves to about any place in our small cabin.

This open arrangement in the cabin makes it so that it converts from our kitchen to dining area to living room and makes the small space much more versatile.

I know it sounds good to cook and clean standing up, but chances are the counter tops and sink aren't going to be up at the right height to do that and be awkward to use. We have a pop-top that allows us to stand, but I wouldn't want to move the counters up to standing height as we often, when it is cold like when we were just down in Florida, keep the top down to keep the warmth in. Then what would we do?

I mounted a couple short pieces of ABS plastic pipe to the back pushpit railing at the stern of the boat and store 4 propane 1 lb. bottles in the tubes. The bottles go outside into the tubes when not in use. Don't store them below even if you have a vent as the vent will have to be high enough to not let water in when heeling and the gases settle and won't ever get to the vent. Also be very careful with the stove in the confined cabin. We always have the companionway hatch open and either the pop-top up and the front window open or the pop-top propped up on the front edge to allow air to come in and leave the cabin area. CO can accumulate in you blood stream from more than one exposure. No matter how cold it is we have ventilation going when the stove is going. It is usually a no loss heat situation as the stove is going.

One last thing. I can't see how the mast forces are carried down to the keel on that boat. There has to be something there structurally to do that and it might just be the beams in the ceiling carrying the load over to the hull sides and down or maybe it is in some of those bulkheads. Where ever it is be sure that you don't compromise that in the changes. There are large loads under the foot of the mast and they have to be taken care of in some manner. I just couldn't tell how from the pictures you've taken.

Just a couple thoughts and it is your boat, so do what will work for you and good luck and you are off to a good start,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[c_witch]

Hiee Summer,

Your post was informative as always. The forward bulkhead just aft of the v-berth use to consist of 2 compression posts with a 1/4'' ply panel fitted between them and the hull cabin side and deck etc. I have replaced that with 2 - 1/2'' lamenated solid plywood bulkheads as shown the mast step being just fore of the bulkhead. The attachment shows what I am trying to describe. They are glassed in all round as well 6'' cloth tape and 10 oz weight. The forward most bulkhead forming our anchor storage. We have 6' 4'' on each side of the v-berth for length which is OK for me but a bit snug for Sasha. I will be keeping the head to port and aft of the v-berth as it is. I would like to have used a Sealand 975 but the extra height just made it to cramped for the extra holding capacity. So we will go with the smaller unit. In time I will be adding a 'Y' divertor and mercinator (sp) pump with seacock so we can pump out at sea if need be. The galley is mostly opposite the head to starboard at present. This configuration though puts it ahead of the companion way when fully open and therefor only 46'' of head room. I really think that I will move it aft where the starboard quarter berth is and use the old space for .... not really sure at the moment but perhaps the nav station. The propane storage is not a real issue with the thru hull as the platform will be some inches above the water line and of course completely sealed off from the rest of the boat. The tank for the outboard sits to the port side and a 5 gal jerry can of extra gas more or less in the center of that aft most locker behind the cockpit.

Merry Christmas and Happy Sailing, I know have to attend to the turkey lol.

 

[Ray Bowles]

I would strongly urge you to not sandblast. It will very rapidly remove material and in all likelyhood will remove gelcoat material. If there is any barrier coat material it will certainly remove it.
After having done 2 complete bottom paint removal jobs, one 22 foot and one a 38 foot full keel boat, I found an orbital sander my prefered method. Many have used paint strippers with great results and it is faster. My body can't be around stripper chemicals so I sand.
Do not use a belt sander as it will also cut into the gelcoat before you can stop it.
Good luck, Ray.

 

[Steve Dion]

Personally I would suggest that you consider Peel-away to remove the bottom paint. When you repaint it you will only want to use a marine bottom paint. If you are going to go down to the original gel-coat you may want to consider a couple of coats of barrier coat. You will be happy you did this in case you decide to leave the boat in the water at a later date.

I think you can get some advise from the archives on the Peel-away product.

 

[c_witch]

Hiee Steve and Ray,

I all likely hood we will use an orbital sander. We have already spent 6 weeks sanding the hull above the water line getting it ready for painting. We still have about 2 feet to go on each side at the bow to have it finished. There were 5 different colors that we had to sand thru. The bottom will be worse due to location lol, even on the cradle we will not be able to stand up underneath and likely will have to lay on our backs to do it. After a long rest over the winter though then I suppose I will be ready to tackle it with a sander once again.

For the most part our boat will be on the trailer and at home when not sailing. A lot of what I have been reading says that anti fouling paints loose their abilities if taken out of the water and so it seems silly to waste the extra money on them. That is why I have been considering a 2 part expoxy as they are quite tough and should be able to handle the rollers on the trailer.

Happy Sailing,
Brina

 

[mel22]

Hiee everyone,

Thanx all for the info about the cable for the ant. I was hopping that maybe there was some type of rubber boot that would fit over the connection as this boat (this year coming) will likely be launched on the weekends and hauled out again on the Sunday. I really don't want to have to cut thru 3 layers of tape to undue the connection each and every time I lower the mast .

I don't know if you have found your answere to this question. If not I will atempt to offer this solution. Perhaps Summer or some one more articulate will jump in with help.

First there is no need to tape over coax connectores as they are made to be in the weather. The main thing you will want to do is purchase a proper water tight through hull made for running coax through cabin top and then use a thrudeck coax connector with cap.

With the thrudeck connector all you have to do when stepping or lowering mast is unscrew antenna cable at the connector.

 

[dscribner]

c_witch,

I'm with you. I'll be repainting my baby in the early spring and I will NOT be using anti-fouling or ablative paint. If you search my posts, you'll find one that asks this very question. In my quest for the perfect paint, I found a single stage poly paint designed as a topside finish but claimed it was perfect as bottom paint for trailerables' afloat for up to a week at a time. I haven't been able to find it since, but when I do, I'll send you a private message on it.

 

[Sumner]

c_witch,

I'm with you. I'll be repainting my baby in the early spring and I will NOT be using anti-fouling or ablative paint. If you search my posts, you'll find one that asks this very question. In my quest for the perfect paint, I found a single stage poly paint designed as a topside finish but claimed it was perfect as bottom paint for trailerables' afloat for up to a week at a time. I haven't been able to find it since, but when I do, I'll send you a private message on it.

You are probably tired of hearing suggestions from me, but I'll weigh in on the painting deal.

If you are going to paint the bottom why not use a paint that has been developed for that application? Paint companies spend tons of money on developing paint for different situations. If you are assure that you never want to stay in the water for more than a week maybe go with a topside paint, but why limit yourself? I'm not talking about bottom paint to prohibit growth, but something to protect the boat from blistering. A barrier coat that is designed to prevent or lower the chances for blistering like Sea Hawk's Tuff Stuff or one of the Interlux products or Petit's. For less than $150 we were able to put on a barrier coat. If you get blisters then you have a whole lot of work cut out for you in the future.

If you don't have blisters now to deal with and you go sanding the bottom paint off that is on there and get into the gel coat, and you will, then you have opened it and the chances of blistering will go up.

For a bottom paint to protect against growth and slime we used Cukote Biocide Plus....

http://www.bottompaintstore.com/Cukote-Biocide-Plus-Self-Polishing-Bottom-Paint-GL-3500-GL.htm

....that is designed to work on trailered boats. I wondered if it was going to rub off on the bunks on the 2200 mile trip to Florida, especially since I had just painted about a week before the trip. It didn't and looked great....

....and seemed to work great. There are a number of bottom paints that are meant to be used on a trailer boat. Petit's Vivid is one if you want a glossier look.

We took the boat out of the water a week ago and we were in the water just a little under a month and already had barnacles starting to grow on brackets, but none on the bottom.

Like I said the bottom paint is going to be a personal decision, but doing all of the work you are doing why not put on a barrier paint designed for that application?

On stripping the boat. I have to admire you for doing what you have with an orbital sander, but consider doing the rest with something that is a little more aggressive and a lot less work. I did the bottom on our boat...

...in a day with a DA (dual action) sander, but I didn't have to remove paint only sand the whole bottom with 80 grit so that the Tuff Stuff could attach itself with a mechanical bond. Unless you have a good (fairly expensive) air compressor the DA is out but there are alternatives.

If I didn't have the DA I would use a sander/buffer. I have a...

http://compare.ebay.com/like/260497...fc883a9&itemid=260497234958&ff4=263602_304662

.... Makita that isn't cheap, but there are cheap knockoffs out there. What you want is something with a good variable speed so that you can control how fast you are taking material off. There again I just couldn't imagine doing the whole job with an orbital.

If it helps here is a link to when I did the bottom....

http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/macgregor2/outside-39.html

Good luck,

Sum

Our Trips to Lake Powell, UT - Kootenay Lake, Canada - Priest Lake, ID

Our Mac Pages

Mac Links

 

[caguy]

Sumner, I tried using a disk sander because I thought it would be faster and it was. Problem was I couldn't control the edge from cutting into the gel coat. The Makita jitter bug worked better for me.

 

[Sumner]

Sumner, I tried using a disk sander because I thought it would be faster and it was. Problem was I couldn't control the edge from cutting into the gel coat. The Makita jitter bug worked better for me.

Did you try a foam pad like this....

http://www.amazon.com/Hookit-Foam-Body-Pad-6/dp/B000JTKSQ8

The one above has a tapered edge for contoured surfaces. I use one similar on the air DA with the stick on disks....



Some work with.....

http://www.eastwood.com/dry-use-adhesive-back-sandpaper-6-da-white-disk-25-pack-set.html

self-adhesive discs and some work with the hook and loop discs. I used the self-adhesive on my DA, but have hook and loop for the Makita for color sanding a car paint job out with paper down to 1500 grit.

Harbor freight has a sander/polisher that....

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-variable-speed-polisher-sander-92623.html

...I think I would give a try if you were on a budget and it comes with a foam backing disk. The nice thing about the Makita is you set the rpm and it holds that regardless of the load. The HF probably doesn't have that.

I ran my DA at a pretty slow speed and used it in a way that it threw most of the paint away from me and it wasn't near as bad as I thought it would be. Of course I was just sanding the gel coat and didn't have layers of paint to remove.

The key is having a sander that is variable speed so that you can slow it down and have control. A single speed or two speed would be hard to use.

Just trying to make a messy job go faster for someone,

Sum

 

[caguy]

Mine looked like your bottom picture with a velcroed paper. I didn't do it I hired someone for $10/hr. It took him a little longer but I worried less. I just wanted him to smooth out the bottom without going through to the barrier coat. I primered with a barrier coat anyway and apply hard anti-fouling paint. I didn't like the ablative for the boat in that it get all over everything. I carried Novelman's rudder once about 100 yds and was a green mess by the time I got to the boat.

 

[Sumner]

Mine looked like your bottom picture with a velcroed paper. I didn't do it I hired someone for $10/hr. It took him a little longer but I worried less. I just wanted him to smooth out the bottom without going through to the barrier coat. I primered with a barrier coat anyway and apply hard anti-fouling paint. I didn't like the ablative for the boat in that it get all over everything. I carried Novelman's rudder once about 100 yds and was a green mess by the time I got to the boat.

That looks nice Frank, whose barrier coat did you use?

The anti-fouling that I used (see my other post) doesn't come off like what everyone says is common. It is suppose to be harder for trailer use, but is an ablative. Maybe later as it gets older it will come off easily, but after painting and after the trip down and then after pulling the boat out after almost a month in the water it really doesn't come off. Maybe later??

Here is a link to manufacture's site...

http://www.seahawkpaints.com/Our-Products/Product/Cukote-Biocide-Plus.aspx

and they say:

Hardest self-polishing finish for better durability, increased speed and multi-season performance --Hardest self-polishing finish for better durability, increased speed and multi-season performance and

May be used on slow or fast moving vessels
Easily burnished for sailing
In and out of water without affecting antifouling properties


Sum

 

[Steve Dion]

Once you sand the bottom it makes it more susceptible to blistering. I cannot speak for other mfg, but Hunter will void the warranty on their newer boats if the bottom is sanded and an epoxy bottom coat is not applied.

There are many paints on the market that are suitable for trailerable boats.

http://www.boatus.com/trailerclub/Bottom_Paint.asp

Another consideration is the fact that in many states it is illegal to sand the bottom paint without a vacuum system.