Molds for 26D Dagger Board and Laz Hatch.

Dec 28, 2009
397
Macgregor M25 trailer
Hi Marty,

It seems like you are having a bit of trouble with your laminating and gluing, you say epoxy, but a thought might you be using polyester. The reason I bring this up was back a ways you menten picking up a gallon of resin and a couple of ounces of catalyst, most epoxys use alot more catalyst ratios 5 to 1, up to 1 to 1. The epoxys that use the hot catalysts are extreamly touchy and no usually available to the public.

Polyester on the other hand uses very little catalyst, but it is not a very good for gluing.

Just Wondering
Have Fun
 
May 4, 2005
4,062
Macgregor 26d Ft Lauderdale, Fl
FYI Marty,
a post hole digger handle is almost an exact fit replacement for a tiller. -just a bit short. (HD/Lowes)

but its hardwood and $10.

I have a spare pre-drilled below the aft berth... its pretty easy to put too much weight on one..
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
Hi Marty,

It seems like you are having a bit of trouble with your laminating and gluing, you say epoxy, but a thought might you be using polyester. The reason I bring this up was back a ways you menten picking up a gallon of resin and a couple of ounces of catalyst, most epoxys use alot more catalyst ratios 5 to 1, up to 1 to 1. The epoxys that use the hot catalysts are extreamly touchy and no usually available to the public.

Polyester on the other hand uses very little catalyst, but it is not a very good for gluing.

Just Wondering
Have Fun
Your right Fred. I have been saying epoxy but meaning polyester.
I didn't know polyester wasn't good for gluing... I know know! Oops.
Another good reason to use the heavy cloth to cover them. It will be stronger than the wood with just the kevlar and glass cloth.
I picked up some aluminium for the base plates of the arch I'm building today. I'l start that this weekend. If it's not snowing or raining. I'm going to sand down the rudder and tiller handle tonight and get another coat of varnish on the handle.
I'll try and make a jig for the vacuum bagging I'm going to do too. At this point I think I'm using a Shop Vac instead of the fish pump.
I'm thinking of trimming the rudders down to the same height as the original ones. 4' Ther isn't much sense in going longer with the water levels in the North Channel being kind of low.
Mr Bill. I plan on making a laminated tiller handle with different coloured wood. If I use glue I should be fine for strength....
 
Dec 28, 2009
397
Macgregor M25 trailer
I'd be interested in how you make out with vaccuum baging. watch your shop vac for overheating, alot of them depend on air flow for cooling the motor and when you pull a vaccuum there will little to none.

I don't know if you have access to a Harbor Freight or something like them up there look for a cheap diafram compressor, I got one for 29.99 that I converted to a vaccuum pump. I first just used the air intake for the vaccuum intake it worked but had trouble keeping a good seal.

So I took the head off and interchanged the little flapper valves and put the head back on, it is now a vaccuum pump, it only took 10 to 15 minutes to do. Been using using it for degassing resin for casting.
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I'd be interested in how you make out with vaccuum baging. watch your shop vac for overheating, alot of them depend on air flow for cooling the motor and when you pull a vaccuum there will little to none.

I don't know if you have access to a Harbor Freight or something like them up there look for a cheap diafram compressor, I got one for 29.99 that I converted to a vaccuum pump. I first just used the air intake for the vaccuum intake it worked but had trouble keeping a good seal.

So I took the head off and interchanged the little flapper valves and put the head back on, it is now a vaccuum pump, it only took 10 to 15 minutes to do. Been using using it for degassing resin for casting.
We don't have Harbour Freight in Ontario as far as I now. We do have Princess Auto. It's close... But not quite the same.
I'm thinking of the fish air pump more and more... The vac I was going to use is as old as me... It's steel. So handy as it fits on to any 5 gal bucket.
I think I'll hit WalMart after work tomorrow and get a fishey pump... If it doesn't work I will have learnt something else...
My plan is to put it in the bag and have the hose and cord come out of the bag. I will put it in a piece of 4" PVC with holes and have that beside a 1 1/2" piece with holes in it. (Maybe cut it in half and have the big part in the middle and the smaller pieces on each end.) (Like this --==-- ) The holes in the pipes will touch the dry glass so air can move.
I will have the rudder on one side of the bag with the leading edge facing the edge of the bag. I have lots of cloth so I will wet out the rudder and wrap it. Then wet the cloth that touches the rudder and let the extra hang over. (6" on each side IE; top and bottom as I'll wrap the rudder from the middle of the cloth.) That extra 6" will allow for air and resin flow toward the pipes and pump. I'll just trim the extra after.
I'll seal the open end of the bag with.... Butyl tape! (That stuff is great!)

I finish sanded the rudders today. Then I cut 9.5" off the bottom of each.
When I was at the shop today I measured the stock rudder and it is 4'. The height of these were 4'11.5". So I made them 4'2".
Not as long as my old modified rudder but I don't think that matters.
It's all about the extra leading edge. The 3" of rudder ahead of the ware the stock rudder was is what gives the "Power Steering" effect.

I also went to Metal Supermarket and got the aluminium for my arch bases. I just need to cut circles and weld on tubing at the angles I need. I've marked the circles with the bottom of a Tim Hortons cup. =2.5".
I'll get another coat of varnish on the tiller handle tonight.
Last picture is how i will position the 2 pieces of glass needed for each rudder.
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I got to cutting the round disks out of aluminium last night... Didn't go so well. I need different jig saw blades. Mine just melted the aluminium after one circle...
Tonight I vacuum bagged one rudder! I used the Kevlar glass weave I have. I like the cloth but it is hard to cut with scissors! It is double thick with the Kevlar one one side and the glass on the other.
I first cut 6mil poly bigger than I needed for the vac bag. (I'm glad I used the 6mil because I could see what was happening while under vacuum. I thought that the resin would naturally get sucked toward the vac but was surprised when it didn't move so well...)
I ended up having to squeegee the excess resin off the rudder to the extra cloth area. I used lots of resin to make sure it got every where.
I made the vac bag a bit too small. I should have went bigger because the poly decided to wrinkle in places... (They will sand off.) The tubing tha I had drilled holes in was making the wrinkles because it was too close to the rudder. I put the Kevlar side in. Good thing too as I will have to sand a few wrinkles.
I ended up using my old ShopVac. The fishey pump didn't cut it. The ShopVac worked flawlessly! The motor has lots of air movement. Probably because it is so old. It took about 1 hour for the resin to kick. The vacuum was on all that time.
I used butyl tape to close the bag I made. That worked great.
I'll open the bag tomorrow and see what I have got. It does look good right now though!
I put another coat of Helmamans varnish on my tiller handle and the wire brush handle. The wire brush was just to get the varnish out of the brush before I stuck it in a pot Varsol.
 

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Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
When I used to vacuum bag my model sailplane wings I had a vacuum pump from an old Honeywell tape drive. Found it at a surplus shop and it has sufficient vacuum to really squeeze the excess resin from the cloth.

The other way - that actually worked the best - was an old surplus weather balloon.

You blow up the balloon and then push it over the wing (or rudder or daggerboard) as you let out the air. You end up with the balloon inside out over your rudder. These balloons are thick rubber and can put on incredible pressure.

Chris
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I need to stop into KW Surplus. As far as I know Forest City Surplus doesn't carry weather balloons. I may be able to get them to bring one in from KW though. (Same owner.)
I am pretty happy with the way this rudder turned out. It does have a few resin wrinkles but they can be sanded out easily. They are from the large pipe I had in the bag. As well as having the pipe too close to the rudder. The fishey pump didn't make it... It has hard resin in the vent holes... The pipe was stuck to the excess glass on the piece when I went to get everything out of the bag. I removed it with a 16oz hammer.
The rudder looks really good! I'm looking forward to sanding and trimming it tomorrow and seeing what I get. (And I don't much like sanding or cutting hardened fibergass...)
I went to Princess Auto tonight to get new jigsaw blades. The ones I have just melt the aluminium I'm trying to cut for the arch base plates.
 

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Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
Now that looks excellent! Nothing like vacuum bagging. It was the only way I could skin airplane wings with the absolute minimum of resin ( once I had the Honeywell pump from a old computer tape drive).

Chris
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
It's been a long day. Heidi and I finished putting the play house together. That only took 3 hours! Not including the hour or so to power wash it. I almost fell off the top while putting the roof on... Luckily my cordless drill caught me... The two roof pieces weigh about 100 lb each.

We got allot of yard work done today too.

I cut the extra glass off the rudder today and sanded it down. I'm happy with how it turned out.
I will paint it with what ever marine paint I have. I don't see any reason to gel-coat it. (Can't remember what paint I have... It's in the shop that I just got the key for yesterday... After someone stealing my keys last Friday night....)
The Kevlar and glass weave doesn't cut, sand or grind down like regular glass. The Kevlar fibres go kind of fuzzy. (See pictures.) It also takes longer to cut with a cut off disc on the grinder.
I don't know how to compare the difference in strength between this weave and a regular fibreglass weave. I know it's really hard to break by hand. I did get it to break.
I put another coat of varnish on the dollar store wire brush and the tiller handle. I also removed the teak step form inside the boat and sanded it down and put the first coat of varnish on it. It looks allot better!
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
It's Mothers Day. We had my mother over for dinner.
Guess how much work I got done on the boat stuff...
More than I expected! And neither mom is mad at me! Lol.

I put another 2 coats of varnish on the dollar store wire brush, the step and the tiller handle. The brush looks great! So does the step and the tiller handle! The coat count for the brush and the handle is 6. I will put one more coat on because I will have the can open to do the third recommended coat on the step.
I cut out 4 pieces of aluminium for the base plates of the arch I'm building. I got new blades for the jigsaw. 12pt instead of 18 pt. The 18 (finer) was just kind of melting the aluminium...
After I cut them out I used my disc sander to kind of round them off. I think' I'm good for consistency... Within tolerances anyway...
I thought I'd test out the aluminium braising rod to get a feel for it. My only test didn't go so well. But I didn't prep the metal either. I had the one piece hotter than the other. (Bad.) the braising stuck well to the hot piece. no so much for the other piece...
We did more yard work today. I broke away form the others and vacuumed the cars out and washed the mats. And cleaned up the chocolate milk Jasmine spilt in my car yesterday.
Almost forgot. I used vice grips to break a scrap piece of the kevlar and glass weave. I bent it back and for the about 20 times and ended up twisting it
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I've figures out the aluminium brazing. I was using a steel wire brush to clean the aluminium. It was adding contaminents to the pieces. Just because it's regular steel.
I purchased a Stainless Steel wire brush today.
Now it works! Well too.
I decided to make little sail boat shapes because I it more represented what I'm going to do. (Stand a round piece on a flat piece.) It worked great! I can't break the braze. And I tried!
I sanded down the areas that I'm repairing he gel-coat on the boat. I had used the grinder to clean out the crack down to the regular glass. I have seen on youtube that it is best to feather the gel-coat out. So I feathered all the cracks and spots. The pic looks huge because it was two cracks running parallel about 1/2" apart that I made one repair.
I was going to just use white gel-coat on the grey areas but after watching some youtube gel-coat matching videos... I'll make it grey. Hopefully similar to the grey on the boat...
Note: You will notice blue gel-coat above the rub rail.... Hmm no blue pieces up there... I think they just used what they had left over from making the lines on the next boat on the line. Hey may as well use the material if you have it mixed already. I did that with each layer of glass on the mold for the motor bracket. One more coat of glass and it's good to pull apart and put into production.
My intent was to gel-coat after supper today but we had thunderstorms come through. (The weather here has been the worst for doing anything outside that needs to be dry for at least a day.)
So yesterday I planted grass seed on the bare spots on the lawn! Yes that will stop the rain. It hasn't failed me in the past.
I hope to pick up a carb kit for my 8hp Merc and install it in the next few days. (It can be done inside the garage.)
I finished the final coats on the dollar store wire brush. (The one that was contaminating the aluminium...) It looks great! You could hardly tell I paid $1 for it. Unless you know wire brushes... Then it's a pig with lipstick. Pretty though.
I also got the last coats of varnish on the tiller handle and step. They look great too.
I'm planning to prep the holes in the cabin top for butyl tape tomorrow. I can do that in the rain. All the hardware goes back on Monday.
I'm changing the line layout a bit.
I am going to put the main and jib halyards and the DB line on the Port side into a triple clutch. And put a 4 line turning block up further on the deck. The furler line will be on the Port side but go to a smaller cam cleat. The boats won't come with spinnakers so no need for that hardware.
I just want things to be simply laid out and labelled. The less stuff on deck the better.
I worked on the laz hatch today too! I ground it down ans sanded it down to regel-coat it and put it back in the mold. I had hoped to do that today to...
I put the new stickers on the other car. (Hers. The one I blew up last sept... and rebuilt last fall. Link: http://saabworld.net/f9/rebuild-my-2-3t-b235l-29151/?highlight=rebuild+2.3T ) I got the little sail boat stickers on so guys stop asking me ware I fish out of...
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
Nothing significant on the boat today. I took the compass out. It rained most of the day. Went to the shop and got the #'s off the 8 hp Merc that I'm putting on this boat. I'm going to put a carb kit in. It hasn't needed one but I may as well.
I got a new dehumidifier. Not for the boat though. For the basement.
I had planned to taper all the holes on the deck that hardware fits into in prep for butyl tape but ended up running all over town dealing with tenants and home inspectors.
Did you know that a dehumidifier has to be plugged into the electrical outlet and turned on to actually work...? I now have 2 perfect dehumidifiers...
Tomorrow I'm giving lessons on how to empty a dehumidifier. Ahhh.
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
It rained hard today and got too busy with other things to get anything done on the boat.
Tomorrow is my wife's BD. At supper she told me she wanted the bathroom painted for her BD... (I was planning on picking up a gift tomorrow...) Tomorrow will be the first day in about a week without rain... I have taken this wet week off work to work on the boat and planned a big day for Friday.
So I painted the bathroom this evening while she was out at a meet the teacher thing for Squeaky. (She starts grade 1 next year.)
Heidi is very happy with the new paint.
Tomorrow I plan to re-gel-coat my hatch cover and put it back in the mold. (We will see how that works... I plan to clamp it in the mold and hope for the best.) I am also going to get a coat of gel-coat in the DB mold. I want to get it in early to hopefully vacuum bag it later friday night. I figure... Why not... It's easy enought to do.
After the messy stuff is working I plan to taper the holes in the deck and try and dry the boat off for gel-coating the areas I've prepared. It will probably be Sat before it's dry enough to do.
To get close to the correct thickness of gel-coat on the boat I plan to put masking tape on each side of the sanded area and only build up to it. I'll use a plastic squeege to get things smooth. I will still have to sand but not as much as if I was just slapping it on with the brush.
 
Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
This is crazy. Today there was supposed to be a high of 11c. it felt more like 5c! Global warming my butt.
It was too cold to hold onto wrenches in your bare hand. I know that because I was trying to take a bit more hardware off the boat and I was wearing a coat and toque! I gave up after my feet got cold and I started shivering. 5pm ish.
I cleaned and waxed the DB and hatch molds today. I don't think the wax actually dried. I think it froze! It never got warm enough! So no gel-coat and no bagging today.
It's so cold and damp here! If it warms up tomorrow I'll get at the DB and hatch re-gel-coat.
I need to put another coat of paint on the bathroom walls. (Going form green with a fish to blue no fish. Yet.) If it ever dries.... It's that humid here! As I write now, about 24 hours after I finished the first coat... It is just about ready for a quick light sand and the 2nd coat. (Tomorrow.)
Here are some photos of what I did today. Not much...
I took off the rear horn cleats and found they had been glued on with 5200. great stuff that. NOT! It fails and when you want to remove hardware you have to fix gel-coat! See pictures; These leaked!
I used butyl to fix them and the railings.
Note. Don't put your butyl in a thin plastic glove. I used this for my bagging process last week and thought I'd be able to use it for bedding... No. It won't let go of the plastic...
After the little bit of work I got done today I took Squeaky out to dinner. Heidi didn't want to come because she is feeling sick. We have all has some type of bug this week.
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
Great now I'm sick...
I had a 3 hour nap this afternoon... 3 hours! I won't go into the other fun stuff.
I did get the hatch into the mold with a new coat of gel-coat.
I made a couple of mistakes...
I didn't use enough gel-coat. And I didn't have it clamped together well enough.
It came out of the mold with allot of voids.
So... I'm going to give this a good brush on coat and sand it down so it's nice and flat.
So all is not lost. It's good and strong... Just ugly too.
I brushed a little gel-coat on to one of the repair spots on the boat too. (I'm not quite sure about the color...?)
I'm not going to get to anything tonight and hope my belly is feeling better tomorrow.
I brought the OB home to give it a clean up and tune up.
Here are the photos....
 

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Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
Marty - are you looking for an actual 26S rudder?

I have an original that I plan to sell (it does have an airfoil shape and almost the exact planform of my Ida rudder).

I also have a brand new, in the box, Ida tiller for a 26S.

I was going to replace mine but ended up replacing the entire boat instead.

Bought this today:
 

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Nov 23, 2011
2,023
MacGregor 26D London Ontario Canada
I have an original that I plan to sell (it does have an airfoil shape and almost the exact planform of my Ida rudder).

I also have a brand new, in the box, Ida tiller for a 26S.

I was going to replace mine but ended up replacing the entire boat instead.

Bought this today:
Does that have a trailer?
Congrats on the new boat! (What's the wagon wheel thing on the back for?)
Are you going to keep it in the same place? What is it?

I got to working on the DB today. It's pretty simple to knock off one side takes about 5 hr. From preparing the mold to pulling it out. I used the vacuum to do it. I didn't use gel-coat and don't think I will. I may just paint the top once done. Remember they are disposable...
I got to the gel-coat repairs on the boat today! I put one coat on and then went around after that dried and did any low spots. The 2nd coat was interesting... The small yogart cup I was using decided to melt half way though... I averted any big mess though. I still have the other half of the boat to do.
Then sanding. Yea!
Pictures of Jasmine and the baby grass I planted the other day. Gel-coat, DB, Bugs like gel-coat...? etc.
I washed the OB with engine degreaser. Not that it needed it... It was just easier to get it all with the spray can then the hose.
I'm still not feeling the best. But I didn't need a 3 hour nap today.
 

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Apr 24, 2006
868
Aloha 32 Toronto, Lake Ontario
The new boat is at Bluffers Park (Scarborough) for this season as that was already paid for by the previous owner. Probably won't keep her there next year. We like to anchor out a lot and Lake Ontario looks more like "marina hopping" (at least around Toronto).

We are keeping Teliki and doing the North Channel cruise with the TS/A plus planning to head sound to BEER next year www.beercruise.info
Can't imagine not having a trailerable boat - so while selling Teliki would pay for half the new boat (we got a really good deal) I'm thinking we will be a two boat family for as long as it makes sense.

But I do have a 26S rudder, brand new Ida tiller and a suit of sails to find a home for. Just wanted to mention it before I try to figure out the classifieds on this site.

Your fibreglass skills are looking great. I will be picking your brain about repairs as the new boat had a rough life and needs a lot of TLC. But first it's replacing the holding tank - crappy jobs first!

And I have no idea what that big round thing is on the back of the boat - maybe a sock dryer :)

Chris