Mast Crane

[agprice22]

Here is an idea I have for a home crane (yardarm) for stepping my 272 mast. I want to be able to fully rig the boat before taking it to the marina for launching, and I just have 1 extra person to help, and she is trepidacious about having this mast fall. Especially so since it kind of landed hard when my mast A-frame broke due to unequal loading and twist on the mast as we lowered it to bring the boat home. It only came down hard about 2ft, but it was scary!
So... Tell me what you think, and why doesn't anyone sell these on the internet?

Yardarm: View attachment 74616

Measurements: View attachment 74617

Dimensions: View attachment 74618

Considering the relatively light weight of the mast, I think I could overbuild this with just 1 1/2 - 2" square, mild steel tube. Any ideas, caveats? Oh, the plan says, "4x4 lumber," but I am thinking steel considering the length. Also, the length of the arm can be shortened by a few feet by moving the mounting point up the wall, but then the mounting point and angle of the upper block and tackle changes has less leverage(?).

Thanks, Andrew

 

[SycloneDriver]

I replaced the tongue on my trailer with a longer one and built a crane on the trailer. It works great. I needed to replace the tongue anyway.

Is the mast hinged at the deck on a 272?

What about overhead power lines between the house and the marina?

 

[cb32863]

What about overhead power lines between the house and the marina?

Or bridges......... and does the law allow towing something with a mast up, 30 some feet of one....

 

[Jackdaw]

No matter if the route is 'clear', 14 feet is the highest you can be with ANY load (without a permit) on most roads in the USA.

 

[topcat0399]

Have you considered a self contained gin pole set up?

We have learned to leave almost all of our rigging attached and in place some of it slackened. Drop the mast with the gin pole and slide it all forward for travel. Bungee or tie in place.

At the ramp do the reverse. Cut off a lot of time and screwing around.
With our self contained gin pole and a set of baby stays I have no problem putting up and taking down the mast alone safely.

Just a thought.

 

[agprice22]

Whoa! So we don't misunderstand here... I am ONLY erecting the mast at my garage, so I can rig the boat and work on the mast and lines. I WILL NOT be transporting the boat with the mast erected! Yikes! Haha... Driving down the road with the 30 ft mast erected! Whew! No. We will have the yard erect the mast and lift the boat into the water. Too many variables with ramp angle, length, only two of us to rig and such... Worth the money to let the yard lift it at the water.

So... I am just asking for opinions on the lifting device. However, I do like the trailer mounted crane idea. I would like to see pictures.

Thanks!
Andrew

 

[LloydB]

Looks like a workable concept to me however not dissimilar to the A frame but just not mounted on the boat. You don't show the weight of the mast or its length. Using a break wench to raise and lower should prevent dropping while a block and tackle requires constant attention or tie off when paused. The set up you're proposing is the same as farmers have been loading barns forever, go to a feed store for parts and ideas.

 

[Joe]

Whoa! So we don't misunderstand here... I am ONLY erecting the mast at my garage, so I can rig the boat and work on the mast and lines. I WILL NOT be transporting the boat with the mast erected! Yikes! Haha... Driving down the road with the 30 ft mast erected! Whew! No. We will have the yard erect the mast and lift the boat into the water. Too many variables with ramp angle, length, only two of us to rig and such... Worth the money to let the yard lift it at the water.

So... I am just asking for opinions on the lifting device. However, I do like the trailer mounted crane idea. I would like to see pictures.

Thanks!
Andrew

Why don't you invest in a tabernacle (hinged) mast step and raise it with a gin pole, or some other traditional trailer sailor technique. If you haven't measure the shrouds yet you can rig temps with the halyards.

 

[Steve Walsh]

Concept looks ok, but not sure if crane is high enough from deck in the hand sketch. I suspect you need to place lifting strap on mast at a point that makes the mast slightly bottom heavy. Assuming the mast is heavier at the bottom and the strap is placed at mid-point on a 30' mast, you will need to get the strap point to around 15' above the deck. So using your measurements, that puts the strap point at about 25' above ground. Looks like you may run out of lifting range before mast is high enough, unless you use several people on lines attached to mast to pull (tilt) it up the rest of the way after getting the mast on the tabernacle.

 

[agprice22]

Yes, the spreaders are 15' above deck, and the deck is 9' above ground. The spreaders are slightly above midpoint on the mast, so getting the spreaders 24' above ground should get the mast vertical on the deck. I can increase the lifting distance by raising the arm and getting the boat closer to the building. I have 5' of clearance between the edge of the trailer and the building, so I have some leeway. However, I may still have to give it a shove forward after I connect the backstay in order to connect the forestay.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[agprice22]

Why don't you invest in a tabernacle (hinged) mast step and raise it with a gin pole, or some other traditional trailer sailor technique. If you haven't measure the shrouds yet you can rig temps with the halyards.

I admit I am reluctant to use the gin pole or A-frame. There seems to be too little lateral stability offered without rigging some shrouds to steady the mast. How do you / others rig this? I guess I could look on Youtube!

Actually, the pin on my mast step is broken, so I am going to affix a hinged plate to the bottom. However, I don't expect a hinged plate to provide lateral stability against a 30' mast while stepping it.

From what I have recall, I can remove the deck plate, and adapt the mast base to work with the hinge. Or maybe it is vice-versa! I saw pictures here somewhere, so I will look them up.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[agprice22]

Looks like a workable concept to me however not dissimilar to the A frame but just not mounted on the boat. You don't show the weight of the mast or its length. Using a break wench to raise and lower should prevent dropping while a block and tackle requires constant attention or tie off when paused. The set up you're proposing is the same as farmers have been loading barns forever, go to a feed store for parts and ideas.

The brake winch is a good idea!

Thanks!

Andrew

 

[Brian S]

I dunno, Andrew. I've been following this thread for a bit now. Seems to me, if you have a deck stepped mast, you would do well to rig a sturdy gin pole, with baby stays on the mast and gin pole for stability, and then you'd have a setup that you could use anywhere - stepping your own mast at the yard, for example, as well as your house, and somewhere else if you were able to travel with it. Ahhhh, found it: According to the brochure, the mast is deck stepped with a hinged base, so this is the direction I'd head http://www.iheartodays.com/files/model_oday_272le_brochure_6_2550w_3317h.jpg

 

[Tom G P-21]

Check out this video of the Catalina mast raising system. One of the interesting parts is the sliding A-frame that does the side to side stabilization.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX9TRjBKCQ8

 

[Joe Blizzard]

There seems to be too little lateral stability offered without rigging some shrouds to steady the mast. How do you / others rig this? I guess I could look on Youtube!

I use ropes looped over my spreaders for temporary shrouds. The important part is to attach the lower end at a point that's on the same plane as the hinge point. They make my mast very stable laterally while raising and lowering. Closeups of my baby stays start at about 3:40 in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li7SadZL8ek

 

[LloydB]

You will simplify the set up and reduce risk the most by replacing the broken mast step First for the least cost. Let the deck support the mast.
Brian S makes good points. Adjustable 9' cargo straps make good temporary baby stays and will hold well over 200 lbs horizontally even at 30 degrees from vertical to keep balance while raising.

 

[tommays]

On a J24 for example which has a much bigger keel stepped mast (35' and about 70#) you need a ginpole with 19' feet of lift to raise the mast enough to drop it through the deck to the step

Are pole was always stood up on deck by hand and supported with 3 shrouds

The C22 only needs enough lift for perhaps 1/2 the mast length

On my 18' with the hinge step built in you one person just walked the mast up from stern to bow

 

[topcat0399]

You will simplify the set up and reduce risk the most by replacing the broken mast step First for the least cost. Let the deck support the mast.
Brian S makes good points. Adjustable 9' cargo straps make good temporary baby stays and will hold well over 200 lbs horizontally even at 30 degrees from vertical to keep balance while raising.

Thats what we use for baby stays right now - ratchet straps - but I'm going to change it AGAIN to use line and a block with a cam cleat on each side. That will be less screwing around.

FYI: our 1st gin pole was simply a 6 ft wooden 2x6 with a notch cut out on the mast end and a couple of hardware store pulleys on the business end.

Worked just fine - just wasn't very pretty.

I see people that seriously "over build" their mast raising system all the time.

 

[agprice22]

Thanks guys! I will check out the baby stays. Part of the advantage of the crane at home is to lift the mast off the boat too, so I can work on it and store it in my shed. However, I am feeling more positive about a new A-frame setup of metal tubing. My first one was probably underbuilt with only 2x2 lumber. It worked until about 20 inches remaining. Luckily, the mast just laid onto the support with no damage except a broken pin in the mast foot and a little damage to the slot in the step plate into which the pin fits. I am going to repair the step and pin, or I will adapt a hinged plate.

Thanks everybody! Excellent feedback as usual!

Andrew

 

[agprice22]

Okay, I watched the videos, and I liked the sliding poles for lateral stability, and I liked the A-frame that locked into the cabin-top hand-rails as well as the A-Frame that was stopped on the stanchions... Soo many ways to solve the problem. I even came up with a new one: simply tie the base legs of the A-Frame to the each other and to the forestay chainplate. Thus, they couldn't slide apart or slide aft! You could even create a Double A-Frame, with the base legs hinged at the shroud end! Thus, there would be no need to connect the base legs to any thing. I think I would still tie them to each other.

Anyway, an A-Frame would help me save a few bucks at the marina, but I still want to remove the mast from the boat for refurbishihing and storage, so I will build BOTH the crane and the A-Frame.

Thanks everyone!

I will post pictures!

Gee... I wonder if I could build the crane strong enough to lift the boat for painting...

Andrew