Mast Crane

[agprice22]

Here are some pictures of the mast crane to be used for removing the mast from the boat and stepping the mast for pre-rigging. I will, of course, be lowing the mast prior to moving the boat...









I will post some shots when I am using it to move the mast.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Chris Patterson]

Looks good Andy. Have you considered taglines/side support for the crane?

 

[shemandr]

Um, I don't get it.

 

[Chris Patterson]

It just seems like it may have a propensity to swing the boom left or right. Will it not?

 

[agprice22]

Looks good Andy. Have you considered taglines/side support for the crane?

Yes! That is in the plans. Nothing too heavy duty, just a couple lines to limit "swing."

I gave it a little test today, and it lifted nicely.

I will post another couple pics when it is done, and we are lifting the mast.

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

The hull of the Catalina 22 1983 is in essence the same of the newer style Catalina 22 and Catalina Sport 22. Masts for these 22's are heavier than other competetor's masts in the appx. range but they are basically the same for all the Catalina 22's.

The Catalina Sport 22 comes with an optional or use to mast raise system. I adapted that to the other 22's as it was easy to get parts from Catalina when I was selling boats plus I knew all the mast raise systems all too well.

 

[agprice22]

The hull of the Catalina 22 1983 is in essence the same of the newer style Catalina 22 and Catalina Sport 22. Masts for these 22's are heavier than other competetor's masts in the appx. range but they are basically the same for all the Catalina 22's. The Catalina Sport 22 comes with an optional or use to mast raise system. I adapted that to the other 22's as it was easy to get parts from Catalina when I was selling boats plus I knew all the mast raise systems all too well.

Oh. This is for my 272. I can carry the mast of my C22 on and off the boat, and I can step it just with a cradle and a good lift from my shoulder, no gin pole or other system needed. The mast for the 272 is another story! At around 29 ft in length and at least 1/2 again as heavy, it just plain goes where it wants, and I cannot carry it on and off the boat. Hence a little lifting help! For stepping the mast at the marina in a few weeks, we will either use a gin pole and baby shrouds, or we will let the marina hoist it, since it is included in the cost of lifting my boat into the water.

Just gotta get a bunch of work done before we can go sailing!

Thanks,

Andrew

 

[Jerry Shenkman]

Stupid question(s); What is a gin pole? What are baby stays?

 

[LloydB]

gin pole is the same as jin pole, is a temporary post with tackle on the top end used to raise loads above the level of its base attachment there are a variety applications.
where side stays are called shrouds and fore and aft stays are usually called stays, smaller temporary side stays are called baby stays and used to keep the gin pole from falling sideways.

 

[Joe]

gin pole is the same as jin pole, is a temporary post with tackle on the top end used to raise loads above the level of its base attachment there are a variety applications.
where side stays are called shrouds and fore and aft stays are usually called stays, smaller temporary side stays are called baby stays and used to keep the gin pole from falling sideways.

Uh, I'll disagree... This is from Selden rigging guide page 6/7 "Longitudinal Rigging" http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf

Baby stay: Attached in the region of the lower spreaders.
The stay is not sail-carrying, but is intended to stay the
lower panel of the mast fore-and-aft, in conjunction with
aft lower shrouds.

You could call the sway support guys baby stays, but why not just call them what they are, braces.

 

[agprice22]

I think the term "baby stay" is used colloquially in relation to the use of a gin-pole. Certainly, no one sails with the gin-pole attached, so it is not likely confused with sailing rigging. I used the term, "baby shroud" because it seems to be by definition a shroud which steadies the side-to-side motion of the mast in any situation, sailing or stepping.

No real harm in calling it either, as I see it. As they might be connected to the gin-pole, not the mast, I don't see they have real strength in saving the mast from moving side-to-side. I think I would put a shroud u-bolt (like a Wichard brand) on the deck at the height of the step-plate, so I could affix shrouds used specifically for stabilizing the mast during stepping.

Oh well, to each his own.

Very rainy here today. I have taken the day off to work on the boat, but it looks like I will stay inside the cabin and sand in preparation for the new headliner.

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Jerry Shenkman]

Many thanks for the info

 

[Joe]

I think the term "baby stay" is used colloquially in relation to the use of a gin-pole. Certainly, no one sails with the gin-pole attached, so it is not likely confused with sailing rigging. I used the term, "baby shroud" because it seems to be by definition a shroud which steadies the side-to-side motion of the mast in any situation, sailing or stepping.

No real harm in calling it either, as I see it. As they might be connected to the gin-pole, not the mast, I don't see they have real strength in saving the mast from moving side-to-side. I think I would put a shroud u-bolt (like a Wichard brand) on the deck at the height of the step-plate, so I could affix shrouds used specifically for stabilizing the mast during stepping.

Oh well, to each his own.


Thanks,
Andrew

One can mention the colloquial use of a term, but that doesn't define the term. You could say, "out here in Kansas the trailer sailors call the anti sway rigging baby stays, but in the universal jargon of sailing, a baby stay is.........etc." That's acceptable...

The fact is, some people call the gin pole support a baby stay... but that doesn't make it right. It just means they don't know any better. So..... now they do.

 

[agprice22]

Joe, my son wears braces, and he doesn't even own a gin pole! I agree that "baby stays" doesn't seem right. I will try to call them braces. But then, I am going to rig auxiliary shrouds to support my mast in the event I go raising it by hand with the aid of a gin pole or a-frame (personally, I favor the a-frame). I will let you know how they work.

Here are a few pics of lifting the mast, without the one showing my wife's rear end! Yes, if she reads this... Ouch!

The crane worked great, nice and easy. Lift mast, move boat, lower mast to ground, carry mast to cradle to re-rig / check rigging.









In the first, I have pulled the boat forward. In the second, I am ready to lower the mast to the ground. I know it seems like a lot of trouble for 100 or so pound mast, but anything I can do to put my wife at ease is SMART! Besides, when it comes to stepping the mast for test-rigging and rigging prior to going to the marina (and then lowering the mast with everything neatly arranged for stepping the mast at the marina), the crane is gonna be a wonder! Hey, if I had 5 guys... But I don't. We live out there a ways.



Thanks,

Andrew

 

[StinkBug]

Joe, go browse the trailer sailor forums or the MacGregor forums a bit and you'll find that basically everybody using a gin pole style mast raising system refers to the short lateral support wires used in this system as "baby stays". Just because it isn't technically correct doesn't mean it isn't the most common terminology used regardless of location or level of education. Those of us who actually raise our masts every single time we sail talk about this stuff all the time and if I were to use any term other than "baby stay" I'd have to actually explain WTF I was talking about.

As for the OP, I agree with everyone who is a little confused about this setup. Seems to me you could build a setup that attaches to the boat or trailer just as easily and be able to raise your mast anywhere, or even just buy one of the raising systems designed for other boats. My M25 mast is pretty similar to yours, and I can stand it up and get it rigged single handed in about 30min.

 

[Joe]

Joe, go browse the trailer sailor forums or the MacGregor forums a bit and you'll find that basically everybody using a gin pole style mast raising system refers to the short lateral support wires used in this system as "baby stays". Just because it isn't technically correct doesn't mean it isn't the most common terminology used regardless of location or level of education. Those of us who actually raise our masts every single time we sail talk about this stuff all the time and if I were to use any term other than "baby stay" I'd have to actually explain WTF I was talking about.

Well....I will not argue that Macgregor people like to call that anti sway preventer a baby stay.
I'm just a bit surprised that none of them have challenged the technical misuse of the term. If developing their own nautical language helps them get their boat in the water... that's cool. My comment was simply made to enlighten those who were unaware of the universal use of the term.....

At the risk of being WTF'd by your peers... pass them this url on a cocktail napkin:

http://www.riggingandsails.com/pdf/selden-tuning.pdf.

 

[Joe]

Joe, my son wears braces, and he doesn't even own a gin pole! I agree that "baby stays" doesn't seem right. I will try to call them braces. But then, I am going to rig auxiliary shrouds to support my mast in the event I go raising it by hand with the aid of a gin pole or a-frame (personally, I favor the a-frame). I will let you know how they work.

Andrew.... are you supporting the weight of the mast at the point near the spreaders, or does the lift line extend to a cleat near the mast base? You know, like the A Frame system suggests. I guess I'm wondering how easily the mast gets vertical when you lift it full height or do you have to manhandle it a lot.

Now, Andrew... don't get smarty pants with me.. you know your son's braces are really called baby brackets.

 

[agprice22]

Andrew.... are you supporting the weight of the mast at the point near the spreaders, or does the lift line extend to a cleat near the mast base? You know, like the A Frame system suggests. I guess I'm wondering how easily the mast gets vertical when you lift it full height or do you have to manhandle it a lot. Now, Andrew... don't get smarty pants with me.. you know your son's braces are really called baby brackets.

I just tied a cradle around the midsection near the spreaders. The mast naturally tilted toward the heavy end. I think I will tie the line to the ends next time. I will lift the mast near the spreaders when I step it for rigging. I have not lifted the mast onto the boat yet. I am busy re-potting and rebedding all my deck hardware before we install a new headliner.

And... I think I will take my son to the orthodontist to get those darn brackets removed!

Thanks,
Andrew

 

[Joe]

I just tied a cradle around the midsection near the spreaders. The mast naturally tilted toward the heavy end. I think I will tie the line to the ends next time. I will lift the mast near the spreaders when I step it for rigging. I have not lifted the mast onto the boat yet. I am busy re-potting and rebedding all my deck hardware before we install a new headliner.

Good luck