Am I correct to infer from these comments that marinas don’t generally require you to sign a rental contract which stipulates you agree to indemnify the marina?
Marina Restrictions on Boat Use?
- Thread starter Kings Gambit
- Start date
They do require it. But—a in recent case I witnessed where a couple of dock fingers were damaged, along with a few boats, by a tenet’s run-away powerboat, the City had to sue for damages to its dock. The guy’s insurance company filed a Limitation suit (Plaintiff-in-Limitation) to get him, and the insurance company, off. The City has settled, but that guy is still in the marina
. So, what are these “agreements” really worth? Who is taking them seriously?Last year it was suggested by my financial advisor to raise my liability from 300K to 500K since as a lesee of the slip I could be held partly responsible for injury or whatever. I have Boat US and the annual increase was less than $5.00 for the year if I remeber correctly.
When you get out to Boat C and perhaps even D or E which is not hard to imagine it's easy to get past 300K. On a longer dock it'll be tough to get to the other side of the inferno to knock it down.The $300K would not have work quite that hard, perhaps. Boat A, where the fire starts, has its own hull insurance up to the policy limit. Boat B‘s insurance company gets a crack at the $300K of liability, but only after the marina gets its settlement, say $50-100K. Two hundred grand to the “victim” if Boat A’s insurance actually “pays off.“ That is probably less than the full replacement cost of any boat over 30-34 ft these days, so boat B’s adjuster “pressures“ the owner to total out the boat, etc. @ current value and take the money that’s “in hand.” So, it could be enough, although $500K is the better cushion, clearly .
I visited the Nanaimo Yacht Club docks in 2013 as a reciprocal while on charter. They required 1 million CAD liability just to tie up for the night. Being on a charter yacht out of Vancouver, I had no idea what its liability coverage was, and had never heard of a requirement so high. So, I sort of sand-bagged my way through registration by explaining the situation, and they did not see fit to ask me to produce an insurance binder, etc.; which who knows what about that? It’s a bit inconvenient to discover this kind of stuff at 1700 traveling in an entourage of four sailboats expecting to to overnight there.
. Being on a charter yacht out of Vancouver, I had no idea what its liability coverage was, and had never heard of a requirement so high. So, I sort of sand-bagged my way through registration by explaining the situation, and they did not see fit to ask me to produce an insurance binder, etc.; which who knows what about that? It’s a bit inconvenient to discover this kind of stuff at 1700 traveling in an entourage of four sailboats expecting to to overnight there.
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I have been in 4 marinas so far.
1. Chula Vista South Marina - Required $300K, marina added to ins., recent survey.
2. Navy Submarine Base - Required $300K and marina added to ins., no survey required.
3. Oceanside Harbor - $300K, marina added to ins, tri annual inspection, no survey required.
4. Marine Corps Base Marina (current), $300K, marina added to ins., just started inspection but not sure when next one will be.
Overall it hasn't been too bad. I did visit Dana Point Marina and I think they required proof of ins and registration before giving me a guess slip, but I didn't have to add them.
Now the title says restrictions on boat use. In my current marina we do have restrictions on use. The Marines can close the marina whenever they want to. This includes private boats. The Marines do a lot of amphibious training in the boat basin to include scuba and landing craft. A few times I have been advised of "divers in the water" and to be careful. The divers are attached to floats so we know where they are.
1. Chula Vista South Marina - Required $300K, marina added to ins., recent survey.
2. Navy Submarine Base - Required $300K and marina added to ins., no survey required.
3. Oceanside Harbor - $300K, marina added to ins, tri annual inspection, no survey required.
4. Marine Corps Base Marina (current), $300K, marina added to ins., just started inspection but not sure when next one will be.
Overall it hasn't been too bad. I did visit Dana Point Marina and I think they required proof of ins and registration before giving me a guess slip, but I didn't have to add them.
Now the title says restrictions on boat use. In my current marina we do have restrictions on use. The Marines can close the marina whenever they want to. This includes private boats. The Marines do a lot of amphibious training in the boat basin to include scuba and landing craft. A few times I have been advised of "divers in the water" and to be careful. The divers are attached to floats so we know where they are.
This is pretty standard here. When requesting a slip the club will ask to see the club members ID card, a copy of the registration to ensure the boat is registered to the club member asking for the slip and the declaration page of the insurance policy for the boat. Easy way to do it is have pictures of them on a cell phone and just email or text them to the club as you are on the way. Most have upped the requirement from 300K to at least 500k a few are at 1mil. The difference in price for the liability insurance is pretty minor and worth it to protect your assets.I visited the Nanaimo Yacht Club docks in 2013 as a reciprocal while on charter. They required 1 million CAD liability just to tie up for the night
Thanks. But I was on a chartered boat, first night out. I’d think the charter company would have papers to cover its entire fleet, etc., but in any event I was not the owner, so the boat would not be registered to me. My charter contract did not include a declarations page, or other information, as to the liability amount, etc. I just made the case that a charter company would likely carrry the amounts required for their charter customers to visit marinas and yacht clubs in the area, etc. First time I encountered that situation on a chartered boat but I usually anchor out when on charter in Canada. I should have asked the NYC when I made arrangements to come there
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Seems like a patch-work quilt here in Southern California. I think the most prepared thing would be to carry the $500K liability, at least while traveling if your home marina does not already require it, so you don’t get surprised by not having enough to get a transient slip if any contrary rules are strictly enforced.
i'll never take a slip in a marina that does not require insurance and surveys. in PA, the state park marina on lake erie didn't and still doesn't require surveys or insurance. incidents: 1/ uninsured clown stores old 30 ft boat worth about 2K on jackstands , mast up, no plywood pads under stands. (no law against storing mast up.) he topples in a noreaster and takes out 3 boats including a beautiful shannon 34 just bought and re engined better yet, the locally owned erie insurance co where a lot of locals get their policies had riders stating their comprehensive coverage for boats was for 'on water afloat' coverage only not on land.( i wasn't one of the hit boats.. but i canceled my erie ins on everything and went w/ boat us...). . 2/ the 'replacement' unschooled travelift operator slings a catalina 34 to place it from winter storage into the well to launch. lift operator 'mistakenly' releases bow strap while traveling, which drops the bow and the whole boat slides fast onto its nose, trapping a helper's arm between strap and hull when he rushed to help.boat has keel damage and subsequent leaks . helper's lucky he still has 2 arms...3/ a beater 24' motorboat, worth not much , with an old gas engine , got a slip right next to me. i got to watch and smell him work on his nonworking gas engine for an unfortunate season . his engine problems continued the next year, his wife apparently got tired of towing the boat back into the slip with her kayak. then the next year he sold that PO *** . unfortunately the new owner did not realize the extent of the problems on that PO*** gas engine. on its maiden voyage it blew up at the fuel dock at erie yacht club killing a person on the 1st day of its use by the new unsuspecting owner.
Great question!!.............In addition, to the remarks above our marina wants to see a current photo of your boa, your driver's license, Waitlist Application, signed rental agreement, signed payment form, first month's rent and one month deposit, current California DMV Vessel Registration OR USCG Documentation, co owner application, signed rules, certificate of insurance naming the marina as an additional insured ($300,000, albeit I maintain $500,000 typical of other SF Bay marinas), Authorization Agreement for Preauthorized Payment, signed access agreement and Written Authorization from marina office that vessel is cleared for entry onto their property. Their rules only allow 6 nights per month, nothing stored on the docks (no dock boxes provided) except steps without chemicals stored under them.
There are now big companies that own several marinas in several states. Perhaps this has been so historically, I don’t know. One advantage to having your yacht in one of those marinas is the privilege of “marina reciprocity.” If you’re a slip holder in Marina A you may get a week to 10 days slippage at Marina B in another city at no cost. Those opportunities could make for good vacations. Here in CA, for example, there is a set of reciprocity chances between marinas of the same company in the Bay Area, Channel Islands, and San Diego. But there are other sets as well (other companies). All of the of marinas that a company owns may have the same rules and restrictions, etc. For example, two nights aboard (unless you are traveling; i.e., a transient). The “two-night” rule now appearing is new in my experience, down from a “two-day, three-night“ rule (e.g., Friday night, Saturday night, & Sunday night). It probably works for people who live afar. Arrive Friday, spend Friday & Saturday nights on the yacht, go home on Sunday, etc. If you have not changed marinas lately, you may not have noticed any change in restrictions. Once something like this gets started, and few object, etc., it tends to spread. “Safety in numbers.“ Of course, no one can object to a change s/he doesn’t not know about. And few would bother with one that does not affect them.
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Three more marina restrictions at my marina in the SF Bay:
1. Electrical Power and Water: Electricity and water are provided for your convenience. While not aboard, however, the electric power is NOT to be used for cabin heaters, refrigerators and water heaters. Your electrical cord must be a marine grade.
2. Maintenance and Care in Berthing: All vessels shall be berthed with proper care and lines are kept in such condition as to meet with the approval of the Harbor Master. In the event that lines are no so maintained, the Harbor Master may supply lines and/or fittings necessary at vessel owner’s expense.
3. Living on Vessels: Without written approval of the Harbor Master, no vessel may be used as a residence. Vessels may be used for eating and sleeping purposes for a period not to exceed 6 days per month, providing the shore-side sanitary facilities are used (since my marina does not have a pump-out station and the closest one is 30 minutes away).
1. Electrical Power and Water: Electricity and water are provided for your convenience. While not aboard, however, the electric power is NOT to be used for cabin heaters, refrigerators and water heaters. Your electrical cord must be a marine grade.
2. Maintenance and Care in Berthing: All vessels shall be berthed with proper care and lines are kept in such condition as to meet with the approval of the Harbor Master. In the event that lines are no so maintained, the Harbor Master may supply lines and/or fittings necessary at vessel owner’s expense.
3. Living on Vessels: Without written approval of the Harbor Master, no vessel may be used as a residence. Vessels may be used for eating and sleeping purposes for a period not to exceed 6 days per month, providing the shore-side sanitary facilities are used (since my marina does not have a pump-out station and the closest one is 30 minutes away).
Hey KG and everyone - it's been a while since I've been here at SBO, and I'm sorry to hear that the trend I've encountered as a boat owner is continuing along those lines.
Regarding Alamitos and Shoreline in Long Beach, CA - as you mentioned, both city-owned and administrated marinas, I unfortunately have some experience with them. When we bought our boat we lived in Long Beach - we learned to sail via the U.S. Sailing center on the peninsula - we of course wanted to slip our boat there. I got on the wait list immediately, and was told that unless I was willing to pay for a 35' slip (for our 25' boat) which was prohibitively expensive and not an option for us (we're not wealthy).
Over the next several years, I was lied to by the Marina department several times; I would call about every six months to see where in the line I was (ie how many in front of me on the wait list) and at one point the woman on the phone laughed at my expressing my frustration at the process and how they kept making me pay a fee every year for the privilege of remaining on the wait list.
This was around when they were replacing the falling-into-the-water docks with modern concrete docks. By they way, speaking of the strict survey requirements, you'd have been harder pressed to find more derelict boats in one place than you used to see over by where Schooner or Later / Westmarine / Joes Crab Shack was - I mean back several years ago when they jerked me around for the wait list.
In Cabrillo where we are now (next door to Alan's Holiday Harbor in San Pedro) they did nickle-and-dime us with the tape measure when we arrived. We only paid for 25' the first month, once they came back with "pulpit and outboard motor" we've been charged at I believe 29' - those 4 extra feet have cost us a lot over the years. And of course we've had once price increase so far. We have a $300k policy (liability only on my $1800 purchase-price 1983 boat) as required by Cabrillo; once we own a home, I'll bump it to $500k.
Regarding Alamitos and Shoreline in Long Beach, CA - as you mentioned, both city-owned and administrated marinas, I unfortunately have some experience with them. When we bought our boat we lived in Long Beach - we learned to sail via the U.S. Sailing center on the peninsula - we of course wanted to slip our boat there. I got on the wait list immediately, and was told that unless I was willing to pay for a 35' slip (for our 25' boat) which was prohibitively expensive and not an option for us (we're not wealthy).
Over the next several years, I was lied to by the Marina department several times; I would call about every six months to see where in the line I was (ie how many in front of me on the wait list) and at one point the woman on the phone laughed at my expressing my frustration at the process and how they kept making me pay a fee every year for the privilege of remaining on the wait list.
This was around when they were replacing the falling-into-the-water docks with modern concrete docks. By they way, speaking of the strict survey requirements, you'd have been harder pressed to find more derelict boats in one place than you used to see over by where Schooner or Later / Westmarine / Joes Crab Shack was - I mean back several years ago when they jerked me around for the wait list.
In Cabrillo where we are now (next door to Alan's Holiday Harbor in San Pedro) they did nickle-and-dime us with the tape measure when we arrived. We only paid for 25' the first month, once they came back with "pulpit and outboard motor" we've been charged at I believe 29' - those 4 extra feet have cost us a lot over the years. And of course we've had once price increase so far. We have a $300k policy (liability only on my $1800 purchase-price 1983 boat) as required by Cabrillo; once we own a home, I'll bump it to $500k.
I am on the dock committee in my housing developement , so helped re-write the rules. On the "marine" power cord I had them include that it must be rated for whatever the amperage of the outlet is. Many people plug in a household cord for a battery charger or heater into a 30-amp twist lock.
The other committee guys added that no one could stay more then 5 nights on their boats. I pointed out someone on a night shift would not spend night on the boat, so we should add words to say not more than 5 days. Maybe nit-picking, but folks will try to get away with anything they can find a loophole for.