Marina Restrictions on Boat Use?

[Kings Gambit]

If anyone has been looking at moving to a new marina, I’d be interested in hearing what “restrictions“ and requirements you have encountered in the form of marina rules prior to moving in. Some new things appear to be happening. The most egregious for boat owners are first, the now-common requirement for a recent survey (< 2 yr old) for boats more 20 yr old. Has this always been true? It might have to be an out-of-water as well. Now, there’s a thousand bucks. Next, a marine insurance policy at $500,000 liability instead of $300,000. And finally, a two nights per week or 10 days/nights per month limit on overnight use of the boat in its slip. Just for comparison, it has been generally three nights (72 h; e.g., Fri-Sun), and up to 14 days/nights per month. That is, something just less than “half” of a week or month so as not to be a de facto live-aboard. With a 10-day rule one could not get even the full two-week vacation at a distant harbor/marina where the boat might be. Yes, the marina managers could, and probably would, work with you for vacation times, but this is becoming absurd.

 

[David in Sandusky]

None of that happening here. Our big "new" thing is having to prove you have insurance.

 

[Mikem]

Most marinas in the PNW require $500k insurance and stipulate that the marina is “additional insured”. Hadn’t heard about the survey requirement. Washington state defines live aboard status but does not limit stays to just two nights.

 

[capta]

Even down here in he Caribbean many marinas and yards are requiring insurance. As a full time liveaboard, I wouldn't consider any marina with liveaboard rules, but I have yet to run across one anywhere that had them, so it's a moot point. Most marinas I've been in like liveaboards as they are like free onsite security.

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

Having insurance pretty much ensures a recent survey in most cases which is why we have to declare valid insurance up to the value of the boat plus $300k liability but we are required to indemnify the marina for all perils. Hurricane mentality... The live-aboard thing is pretty well defined in municipal code here so it's a simple matter for marinas to regulate it without prescriptive language.

 

[Alan Gomes]

If anyone has been looking at moving to a new marina, I’d be interested in hearing what “restrictions“ and requirements you have encountered in the form of marina rules prior to moving in. Some new things appear to be happening. The most egregious for boat owners are first, the now common requirement for a recent survey (< 2 yr old) for boats more 20 yr old. Has this always been true? It might have to be an out-of-water as well. Now, there’s a thousand bucks. Next, a marine insurance policy at $500,000 liability instead of $300,000. And finally, a two nights per week or 10 days/nights per month limit on overnight use of the boat in its slip. Just for comparison, it has been generally three nights (72 h; e.g., Fri-Sun), and up to 14 days/nights per week. That is, something just less than “half” of a week or month so as not to be a de facto live-aboard. With a 10-day rule one could not get even the full two-week vacation at a distant harbor/marina where the boat might be. Yes, the marina managers could, and probably would, work with you for vacation times, but this is becoming absurd.

You are in Alamitos Bay. I've had a boat there also. You have my deepest sympathies.

Alamitos Bay is a city-run marina (think DMV). This is the same place where they would go around the marina and measure boats to see if they were over by an inch so they could round up what they charge to the next foot! (This was back in 2000 to 2003 or so.) So my Newport 27 (at the time) was like 27' 2" with the bow pulpit. When one of the measurers "caught" this, I was from that point forward charged for a 28 footer. Assuming that's still the case, if you walk the marina you'll find boats that actually modified their bow pulpits so they would not protrude past the point of the bow. It sounds crazy, but the extra foot at (now) $10 or $12 (or whatever) per foot adds up over the years. I never did that but there were a number of boats that did. The one I remember most was a terrible hack job the guy did on his pulpit. He simply whacked off the curved portion in the front and ran some wire rope straight across, turning his bow pulpit into a massive cheese slicer! No, KG, I am not kidding or making this up. I wish I had taken a picture of it.

As for the other points: As you know I'm up in San Pedro, just west of you. My marina, Holiday Harbor, is privately administered. While they don't put up with nonsense they are also appropriately chill. I really like the management here. They do not go around measuring boats to squeeze out the last foot from us. I told them I have an Ericson 26 (which I do) and they charged me for a 26 footer. (Actually, I think my boat might come in very slightly under 26', but the point is they didn't question it.) We are required to furnish proof of liability insurance, which seems reasonable enough. I have not had to provide them with any kind of survey.

As for staying aboard, they do have similar clauses to the ones you cited, but I think that's just to give them a cudgel against "sneak aboards." True liveaboards do pay a surcharge to do so, and it would not be fair to them if others were just sneaking aboard without paying. The manager once mentioned that the L.A. Harbor department limits the number of liveaboards for particular marinas, so I guess they need to say something about it in the contract. Anyway, I'm confident that unless a person were abusing the privilege of staying aboard they wouldn't care. In fact, there were a couple of times several years ago when my wife and I needed to live aboard for a few weeks (e.g., her mom was in a nearby hospital close to the marina but a distance from our home). We were basically at the hospital day and night and just used the boat as a place to crash before going back the next day. Anyway, I mentioned it to the manager at the time and he was fine with it.

Maybe you should switch marinas? I love it up here, even though I have to drive an extra 15 minutes to get here. Plus, we're just that much closer to Catalina!

 

[Alan Gomes]

Having insurance pretty much ensures a recent survey in most cases which is why we have to declare valid insurance up to the value of the boat plus $300k liability but we are required to indemnify the marina for all perils. Hurricane mentality... The live-aboard thing is pretty well defined in municipal code here so it's a simple matter for marinas to regulate it without prescriptive language.

I have Boat US insurance on my 1984 Ericson 26, which I bought in 2012. While Boat US required a survey when I initially signed up with them, they have not required a survey since. Thus, my most recent (an only) survey is now 8 years old.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Hi Alan,

The possibility of switching marina is what brought me into contact with the “new” requirements as I see ‘em. ABM did not require a survey when we came in but the boat was not yet 20 yr old then. However, marina staff did do an inspection when they measured the boat. A very basic one. Once they saw the condition of the boat it became a perfunctory exercise. It (the inspection) is basically to keep the dirge candidates out, as far as I can surmise. Basic requirement is that the boat can move under auxiliary. They don’t want to have to tow it to the impound/auction dock when the owner quits paying, etc. ABM has the 72-hr weekly limit on continuous time aboard. Liability is at $300K.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Hi Alan,

The possibility of switching marina is what brought me into contact with the “new” requirements as I see ‘em.

Where are you considering moving to?

 

[Kings Gambit]

Where are you considering moving to?

To one in Channel Islands Harbor, but at least three of the five require the survey for a boat more than 20 yr old. I have not re-slipped the boat since its 20th anniversary, so I don’t for sure that this requirement is “new.” All five (not counting PCYC’s basin in the total) CIH marinas are privately owned and operated.

 

[Kings Gambit]

BTW. “Parks, Recreation, and Marine” in the City of Long Beach runs ABM.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Having insurance pretty much ensures a recent survey in most cases which is why we have to declare valid insurance up to the value of the boat plus $300k liability but we are required to indemnify the marina for all perils. Hurricane mentality... The live-aboard thing is pretty well defined in municipal code here so it's a simple matter for marinas to regulate it without prescriptive language.

Regarding survey, I’d say that’s true if the boat is very recently purchased; but these survey requirements are for within the past two years. Say you bought the boat in 2017 and had a survey then. To move to one of these CA marinas you’d now have to get another one if the boat is > 20 yr old, likely out-of-water, to be permitted in. To me, that’s absurd!

 

[Alan Gomes]

I’d say that’s true if the boat is very recently purchased; but these survey requirements are for within the past two years. Say you bought the boat in 2017 and had a survey. To move to one of these CA marinas you’d have to get another one if the boat is > 20 yr, likely out-of-water, to be permitted in. To me, that’s absurd!

Why do you think it's likely they would require the survey to be out of the water?

 

[Kings Gambit]

Why do you think it's likely they would require the survey to be out of the water?

Because that’s what they said. However, I “negotiated“ the possibility of only an in-the-water survey w/ pictures of the boat‘s bottom from when I hauled it last July in Ventura. Also, there seemed some possibility at one marina that my diver might be able to separately “certify“ the condition of the bottom as an acceptable alternative to haul out. However, with no recent haul out (within 2 yr) to offer, you’d be stuck for the full Monty on the survey.

 

[Alan Gomes]

Because that’s what they said. However, I “negotiated“ the possibility of only an in-the-water survey w/ pictures of the boat‘s bottom from when I hauled it last July in Ventura. Also, there seemed some possibility at one marina that my diver might be able to separately “certify“ the condition of the bottom as an acceptable alternative to haul out.

Ugh. What a pain.

 

[Kings Gambit]

Ugh. What a pain.

Yeah, I wouldn’t bring it up if only a routine matter of moving the boat Who knows. If I tried to move to your marina, I might get the same story now.

 

[Rick Webb]

The insurance is for liability and 300k is not high enough to protect the dock and a couple of boats on either side if there were a fire. It is also to insure that the marina is not liable for the salvage or the pollution mitigation should a boat sink.

The survey and liveaboard rules would preclude the class of boat and individuals who would use it as a cheap place to live. There are elements in that crowd who are less than desirable neighbors.

 

[Alan Gomes]

The insurance is for liability and 300k is not high enough to protect the dock and a couple of boats on either side if there were a fire. It is also to insure that the marina is not liable for the salvage or the pollution mitigation should a boat sink.

The survey and liveaboard rules would preclude the class of boat and individuals who would use it as a cheap place to live. There are elements in that crowd who are less than desirable neighbors.

Right. I'm pretty sure that's why the Harbor Department restricts marinas to a certain percentage of liveaboards. Otherwise, it would turn our marinas into a low-cost housing option vs. a place for people actually interested in recreational boating. As it is, there are plenty of boats (including some with liveaboards) that I never see leaving the slip. But with no restrictions it could be massively worse.

 

[Kings Gambit]

The insurance is for liability and 300k is not high enough to protect the dock and a couple of boats on either side if there were a fire. It is also to insure that the marina is not liable for the salvage or the pollution mitigation should a boat

The $300K would not have work quite that hard, perhaps. Boat A, where the fire starts, has its own hull insurance up to the policy limit. Boat B‘s insurance company gets a crack at the $300K of liability, but only after the marina gets its settlement, say $50-100K. Two hundred grand to the “victim” if Boat A’s insurance actually “pays off.“ That is probably less than the full replacement cost of any boat over 30-34 ft these days, so boat B’s adjuster “pressures“ the owner to total out the boat, etc. @ current value and take the money that’s “in hand.” So, it could be enough, although $500K is the better cushion, clearly .

 

[Tally Ho]

My marina did an “overhaul” of the docks a few years ago, reduced the number of slips and made room for a water park of sorts, where they intended to rent jet skis, paddle boards, etc.

The first year after the refit, they sent out notices raising our insurance liability coverage requirement from $300k to $1M.

It is a municipal marina, and I think someone in the legal department woke up and said....jeez, we are going to be mixing paddle boarders,jet skiers and boats in here...better make sure we don’t stuck with any bodily injury claims....

The slip holders fought back, (most other marinas in our area require $300k) and the marina backed down to keep the $300k liability requirement.

As far as a survey, I have never heard of that in my area, but I have only been in this marina (no other places) for 10 years or so. My current boat is 30 years old, and I moved it to this marina about 5 years ago. No survey needed for the marina.

Greg