All good. There's a 349 a few slips down from Kestrel and I love it. State of the art rig, and lots of dyneema and low friction rings in the latest French go-fast style. I get the trade-offs and Jeanneau probably called it right for their target markets. But I'd love to see one with a big long traveler at boom end. Oh yea, maybe tillers too.As a single/short hand sailor, I am okay with this compromise.
For sure. I'd don't really expect rgranger to go crazy with go-fast mods on his H26. But it's cool that he's thinking about them, and what the trade-offs are. Knowledge is power.To continue my point....
OP is not in a hot rod pogo, he's in a hunter 26. Whether it is a good investment to install a traveler system in his current boat should really depend on boat itself as well as how he intends to sail it.
That is really cleaver... Thanks for the link....A simple DuckDuckGo search and voila: http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-removable-mainsheet-systems.asp
I haven't yet found somebody to sell one to me.
weinie, you know we've had this discussion on this forum before, right? This is where i say: "Don't be a slave behind the wheel."As a single/short hand sailor, I am okay with this compromise. Having a traveler mounted on the coach roof is nice to have....except you must leave the helm every time you need to use it! A bit of a pain on gusty days, especially on a larger boat!
Dropping the traveler before tacking is a great way to kill speed. Right when you need it the most! Plus you're pushing your bow the wrong way by doing that! (assuming the AP takes a few seconds to correct)weinie, good one! Running back and forth? Hmmm, all of a few feet, but I get your drift.
I always drop the traveler before I tack. 1) less work 2) no pulling it up after the tack 3) less work See a theme here?
I love to sail, too, but don't consider the ap taking anything away. Most of the time ours is off, too, since the boat sails itself so well.
Well I suppose they would. But there is a better reason to have angled tracks like the middle image, even on a boat with a fixed sized headsail like yours. Moving the jib car forward and back allows you to change the twist of the headsail. This is just as important as setting twist on the main. Its amazing how few sailors do it. I assume its because 98% of boats do not have remotely adjustable Genoa cars on their tracks. That makes adjusting for twist a royal pain. I cannot image sailing a boat without them. The slight angle of the track keeps the sail at the optimal sheeting angle (9-10 degrees - depending on the boat and designer) no matter where the car is.My other sail control issue with the hunter 26 is the genoa block. I have a fixed block system. It is very far inboard compared to other boats I've sailed. I think I understand the reasons Hunter made that trade-off... the sail controls on the H26 are all very easy to work.... even reefing single hand on the H26 is easy...but... I was thinking something like this would allow me to keep the advantage of an inboard sheet block when working to windward and get a more open slot when on a reach.
Jackdaw, I agree completely EXCEPT that there's a trick that reverses your answer - from NO WAY to WAY!Vang sheeting is an alternative to exactly HALF of the job a traveler does. Yes, Hardening the vang to current twist and then easing the sheet lowers the AOA of the main while not letting the boom rise and mess up twist. Traveler function #1 covered.
But. without a traveler there is NO WAY to move the boom to up the centerline (or above) without taking most or all of the twist out of the main. Ouch.
This is SO KEY for effective upwind work. Boom on the centerline is the default starting position for upwind work in most breezes. You can then set the twist independently with the boom in place. No way to do this without a traveler.
Two identical boats, one with traveler one without. Both sailed as optimally as possible, the traveler boat will crush the non-traveler boat upwind.
Nice. And nice description. I agree with that for smaller boats. The j70 rolls like that, and the super-tasty Seascape 24 does as well. You're right you need a wicked vang. Some resort to a GNAV to help. The Seascape.Jackdaw, I agree completely EXCEPT that there's a trick that reverses your answer - from NO WAY to WAY!
I race 15' Albacore-class dinghies with some success, and believe me, my competitors and I REALLY care about sail shape and trim, including mainsail twist. AND I mostly race in Toronto, so we race a lot in moderate and light winds. BUT, many decades ago, all the serious Albacore racers threw away their mainsheet travelers, and I've only seen them on antiques and orphan boats.
Sure, we've got powerful mainsheets and super powerful vangs. And you're right, that arrangement cannot give you tight trim with loose twist (high centered boom) WITH A STANDARD MAINSHEET! But we've all replaced our simple centered mainsheet with one that's BRIDLED, and that solves the problem! The line from the mainsheet block goes to mid-boom, and has only moderate effect on boom position on either axis (and we usually skip the block and sheet straight from the boom when sailing off the wind). But the heavy lifting is done by the opposite end of the mainsheet, which is split into two tails, each attached far outboard. (Ours are aft, coming out of the boom end.)
With any breeze at all, the windward tail is tight, and the leeward tail hangs limp. The effect is identical to having a self-tacking traveler that automatically shifts to the windward rail.
That would create excessive twist most of the time, but that's where the super strong vang comes in. (Most of us use 16:1, even strong guys - on a 15' dinghy!)
Within a huge trim range, the mainsheet ONLY controls TRIM, and the vang is purely for twist (and mast bend, actually - no backstay!).
If the mainsheet is overtightened, the leeward tail comes tight and the sheet pulls straight down, killing the main's twist. But until that point (which we generally avoid once we get good at this), the two controls are pure and distinct, each doing a different job.
I haven't designed a keelboat version of this arrangement - yet! (We're shopping for a keelboat now!) And I've got nothing against travelers. But with the right hardware and geometry, it IS possible to get a twisted main sheeted at the centerline without one.
Even with this arrangement, when the wind really fades, the weight of the boom alone can over-flatten a main. But you've all got topping lifts or boom-kickers - and engines! ;-)
Absolutely! I think.Sure... why not. I can see the utility of something like that. From your personal experience, did it improve the performance of your rig?