Macgregor and other boats, opinions needed.

[Mark]

Well...

From Dan W"Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, any mass produced sailboat:Mast and rigging is too light.Hull is thinPoor sailing performanceGood under powerCheap interior"I really can't let that one stand. If anything the rigging on Catalina's above, 28 feet, if far to oversized and adds unnecessary weight aloft thus reducing the sailing performance slightly compared to a lighter rig. I used to work in a boat yard and can tell you for a fact that the wire (stay) sizes on Catalina's are at least one full size larger than most boats for their size including boats from Tartan, Pearson, C&C and Niagra. I used to work on a Niagra 35, a boat NOBODY would dispute as a cheap production boat, and most all would classify as a Blue Water boat, and a Catalina 36. Though the Catalina was certainly no ocean crosser the Catalina's stays were 3/8 and the Niagras were 5/16 and both boats had very similar spar extrusions although with the shorter height of the Niagra rig it's mast was obviously lighter in total weight.Hull is to thin? Really show me some documented cases of a Catalina or Beneteau over 28 feet with a catastrophic hull failure? Poor sailing performance? In the late 70's I raced on a Catalina 38 that used to beat everything and I now race on a Beneteau that also beats the pants of most all boats we come up against. While these boats are no J Boats in terms of performance and light weight construction they do sail quite well and will beat he pants off many higher quality boats such as an Island Packet, Niagra, CapeDory, Allied etc. etc.. I happen to own a Cape Dory another well built, blue water, boat and I get my ass kicked by Catalina's, Hunters and Beneteau's on a regular basis and by sailors who don't even know how to sail them. I can regularly and easily get my friends Catalina 320 over 7 knots although he has a tough time breaking 6.5. The sailor makes the most difference.Cheap Interior: Well yes cheaper than smaller builders who hand make all the joinery by hand like Sabre. But a Sabre 38 equipped the same as a Catalina or Beneteau 38 will cost double $$ what the production boats do but certainly won't give you double the fun. Catalina actually still builds with a real teak interior and there are very few builders doing that any more no matter how little wood is below. None of these boats has anywhere close to the forest of teak I have but for most teak above and below decks requires maintenance something most don’t have time for.Someone comparing a Macgregor to a Catalina, Hunter or Beneteau in terms of quality started this whole mess. Having worked on a few Macgregors over the years, while at the boat yard in the 80's, I can tell you they are no Catalina, Hunter or Beneteau but for their intended purpose, lake and protected bay sailing, they don't need to be built that way. I have sailed, on separate occasions, both a Beneteau and a Catalina off shore from RI to Halifax (Catalina) and RI to Saint John's Newfoundland (Beneteau). I would NEVER set foot on a delivery of a Macgregor anywhere in the open ocean. Nothing against them and like I said before for their purpose they are plenty strong and seaworthy but for open ocean sailing they are borderline dangerous.Let's all take a look back at the original post for a minute. He said and I quote:"But I would love a boat to take down the ICW to NC and possibly to the keys one day."If you have ever done the ICW from Virginia to the Key's then you know a Macgregor is NOT the boat for this trip especially for someone with NO sailing experience. Now if he had said he was going to stay in the Chess and the estuaries/rivers a Macgregor would be a fine choice. We need to keep in mind the potential uses. What was in the original post is why people are steering him away from a Macgregor and it is not an intentional slam on the Macgregor's.

 

[Ross]

We tend to get all wrapped up in our opinions

here and loose track of the original question. That question concerned a recommendation for a shallow draft boat the would be suitable for the Chesapeake Bay and a posible trip to the Keys. I am not positive but I don't think that anything over 25 feet will meet the shallow draft ability of a trailer-able center boarder. The man mentioned the Macgregor as a reference for the shallow draft characteristic. What are the alternatives to the Mac that will provide the shallow draft and the sailing ability that he will be able to enjoy the Bay?

 

[Scott]

Many boats with a shoal draft keel ...

will serve the purpose just as well as a trailerable sailboat. I question why Seaspot is focused on a trailerable boat for his situation. It doesn't sound like the slip fees in the Chesapeake will be a financial hardship, especially since he already owns a pair of powerboats and doesn't appear to be concerned about the cost of ownership or use of any of them.I do question if Seaspot recognizes the dramatic difference there is in trailering a powerboat versus trailering a sailboat. I have done both and can tell him that while he may not think twice about trailering a powerboat, the rigging of a sailboat is a hassle that he may very well grow tired of immediately and wish he had the boat in a slip or even a mooring. In that case, do not even look at trailerable boats and go immediately to looking for boats with a keel that will improve performance immensely.Since he is planning on sailing the Chesapeake, I recommend that he get a boat that is as big and comfortable as he can find in his price range. He is 6'-5" and 40 years old, 2 factors that make a big difference. I was there (40) a few years ago and can tell you that 40 is very close, if not over, that threshhold were comfort begins to make a big difference. Especially since he indicates that overnight trips are in the picture, a bigger boat is a better choice. It sounds like he knows for sure that he wants a boat that will not be a project and where the auxillary engine is not a question mark. My only suggestion to that is that there are definitely some older boats on the market that will be in mint condition, and priced well. It will take more work and patience to find them, but I will bet that he can find something that is surprisingly better than he thinks he may be able to find if he does enough looking.

 

[Ross]

Seaspot, It is time to come clean. You list your

home port as Strasburg, Va. That is up in the mountains in western Virginia. Are you planning to move down river below Great Falls or have you learned something that the rest of us don't know?

 

[seadaddler]

Seaspot

There are a lot of other boats that have shallow draft and trailer too,look around more and compare,catalina, hunter, Oday,and a lot more.

 

[Ross]

Jeff, we have here an area called the

Susquehanna Flats. It is a submerged delta about thirty-six square miles of very thin water. In the summertime folks set up volley ball games and play at low tide. My friends sail across them if the wind allows them to sail their Sunfish with the board up otherwise they walk and tow the boat. Shallow draft is very nice here.

 

[Brian D]

We have the same type of area...

Ross, in the South Bay of San Diego. Lots of water for shallow draft boats such as smaller motor boats, and for sail boarders and kite sailers. But not deep enough for regular sailboats. Even at high tide, it is not recommend to go too far out of the channel in the south bay, less the bottom come up and grab your keel.

 

[DanW9494]

Sailing grounds

As someone else said, nothing goes to windward like a truck. Trailer sailboats are a hassle for an hour, but this is what i do. Next week we'll drive 6 hours and rent a slip in San Diego for the week while i have a conference there. Decided to go to that conference since the meetings are in the mornings, afternoon wind is better. We'll go shopping some of the afternoons with romantic evening meal, good trade. We've already done this in Los Angeles and Santa Barbara. We'll see San Francisco Bay this summer. We've had the boat for 6 months now.When I get a larger boat, we'll see Seattle the best way, probably leave the boat there and fly back a few times to see the Sound better. When we slow down it will be a motorhome pulling us to the Sea of Cortez, Narragansett Bay(I love you Jamestown), the Cape, Martha's Vineyard to see Arnold, sail under the Mystic drawbridge to the seaport since thats where i grew up, sail around Manhattan, Chesapeake of course since my boat will be built there, Biscayne Bay to see Shaq, Jackie and Oprah, the Keys, Bahamas, and maybe Chicago down to New Orleans.I saw a guy pulling a boat that looked like a small Americas Cup boat onto the ferry going over to Victoria last summer. I couldn't explore the car deck to find it, but that was a pretty daysailor. Hard to launch though with the fin keel. I may get one of those too.Above dreams originated at macgregorsailors.com where i lurked for a year, and why i respect them. You gotta have dreams.Did you hear about Bob Perry designing a boat for a shipping container. Same dream, grander scale.Seaspot, follow your dreamsRegards, Dan

 

[Paul J. Rusyniak]

SEASPOT,

If you're interested in a 2001 HUNTER h260 in really nice shape, please drop me a note.PaulPJRLMR at JUNO dot COM

 

[Seaspot]

More looking for sure

After rethinking all this and reading all you alls posts, I do realize that a trailer sailer is not going to work out for me. Really the only main reason that I liked the idea was just to be able to bring her home in the winter and the shallow draft.But now seeing that some of these boats do not have as deep of draft that I was telling myself. I think I would be far better off to look at some of the others that you all have mentioned.So now back to looking through tons of classified ads, LOL. I do like the layout and lines of the Catalinas better than the hunters. I have already spotted a few on the bay that the owners have done extensive rework to and look to be in good shape. Plus the overall space on board compared to a trailer boat is night and day.I know I can get a slip down on the lower Potomac on a private dock where my brother keeps his Island Packet at a good rate. So I need to rethink what I really want.

 

[CharlieCobra]

Ok folks, time for some clarification

I see the Mac bashers talking about how bad they sail again. You folks have to remember something. Mac made proper, light, nimble and FAST sailboats before he made the 26X and M with the big motors. These early Macs sail as well and sometimes better than many other proper sailboats. Don't get the sailing Winnebagos confused with the Classics like the V-21, Mac 25 and 26S. True, the Macs aren't real well constructed and are definately not ocean goers. I don't think I'd take a Mac offshore. Even the Mac 65 was known to bend if the afterguy was tightened to much and it flexed like a rubberband in heavy swells. Even so, it held many ocean speed records and still holds a couple to this day.Regardless, specify which Mac you're bashing. Don't just lump all of them into one group.

 

[Brian D]

Wow...

Mountain, mole hill, horse, dead, kick.

 

[oreana123]

phrf ratings

the ratings for all of these boats are similar except for the Ben 265 whose rating is 168. The rating for a Mac 26D, Cat 25 and Capri 256 are all the same, 216. The Hunter 255 has a rating of 225.What does this mean? Maybe the sailor is more important than the hull, so get what you like visually and what is comfortable physically and financially.If you are going to drive a tack, do you use a sledgehammer? If you wear a size 10 shoe, will wearing a size 12 make you run faster? In the case of the Mac 26D, it is no blue water boat, but is best kept in bays estuarys and lakes. But none of the mentioned boats is going to sail away from a Mac D unless the talent of the skipper is superior.

 

[Winky]

Macgregor's go best while trailoring

be careful if u get it wet

 

[Rob 1981 Cat 3019642]

consider maintenance issues...

I owned a Mac 26s for 12 years before buying the Catalina 30. Many days over the last couple of years I wished I still had that boat!The Mac: Free haulout, free pressure wash at home, free winter storage. One small can of bottom paint every 2 years. Periodic wiping down of the cabin to maintain it spotless.The Catalina: Haulout $250, pressure wash at boatyard $75, $$$ winter storage. 1+ gallon of bottom paint. Constant resealing deck leaks, plumbing issues, thruhull maintenance, winterizing engine, etc. Less time with the family and more time working on the boat.The Mac is lightly built, but it was just fine for cruising up here in Canada. I loved that boat!If you are used to power boats, then get the 26x or 26m. I have sailed on a 26x. So its a little slower under sail. You have the big motor to get out to the sailing areas and to get back in, so you can actually sail more. Also, you can get out after work sometimes and come back before dark.Good Luck!-Rob

 

[Joe Pyles]

Try a older 25

I learned to sail on an older 25. It did everthing I asked of it and taught me well the basics of sailing. If you get a 26 you will want a larger boat soon. So get an older 25, enjoy the learning curve and you will be able to sell it without great lose when moving up to a larger boat.

 

[CharlieCobra]

Mac 65

Before I go any further, the flexing boat was a race 65 and I haven't the pleasure of sailing aboard a cruising version. Obviously, if the boats set records for passages, they must've done something right. I just saw one in Cali FS by the original owner for just under 130K. Not bad for a 65' boat that's rated PHRF anywhere from 12 to -49 depending on the version. That's Open60 speed.

 

[Capt. Kermie]

Depends on where you sail!

I agree with Rob 1981 Cat 30.Maintenance & costs really add up but more importantly where does one sail.Up here in the Pacific Northwest we are governed by seasons and the prime time is only 4 months, the remainder of the year the boat sits in the driveway (or slip). Seasons are not the only influence, geography also has an impact. The PNW is one of the worlds premier sailing locations and for those who have never experienced it, it is spectacular, but it is also very sheltered and safe. The entire Georgia Strait is protected from the Pacific by the huge Vancouver Island and the many smaller straits & channels are protected by the smaller islands, even Puget Sound is well protected. The sailing grounds here are huge and take many years to explore, it could last a lifetime. One thing is for certain, you absolutely, positively do not need a bluewater, passage making, ocean crossing, 100' sherman tank built boat to cruise it. The view is the same from all cockpits! The biggest concern here are currents as tides can fluctuate from a mere few feet to five meters, add to that the rip tides, eddies, rocks, commercial & recreational traffic, ferries and channel currents and navigation becomes the challenge. I have a MacGregor 26M and find it ideally suited to these parts especially with that 50HP outboard when traversing the passes where the current regularly exceeds 6 knots. Everywhere I go out there I see other MacGregors either out on the water or at every marina and marine park I have visited, they are very popular here for a reason, they are ideally suited for it. It all depends on where you sail.

 

[DanW9494]

Floating logs

On the ferry to Victoria from south of Vancouver, i forget the very British sounding name of the port, i saw 2 logs floating in the water, barely at the surface. Any worries up there, ever hear of accidents with logs, similar to the way passagemakers talk of containers, floating out there?

 

[Nereussailor]

HELP!

I can't believe this thread is still going. Every forum I post on seems to end with my post. The last post I made to this thread was 3 pages ago. Don't buy a Mac You won't be happy with it. BUY SOMETHING ELSE!!!!