Macgregor and other boats, opinions needed.

Ross · Feb 14, 2007

Waffle, You logic would make fords, chevrolets,

Saturns and yogos in the same class all lower cost production cars.

Steve2747 · Feb 14, 2007

Seaspot, if headroom....

If headroom is an issue - and at 6'5" it will be - the older Beneteaus had less headroom than the Catalinas and the Hunters. I think the new Bens have raised the deck considerably however. I am 6'1" and the Catalinas and Hunters have plenty of headroom, but not the older (5 years of older) Beneteaus.

Ross · Feb 14, 2007

Seaspot, shallow draft as found in such as the

trailer sailers defines a catagory of boats. There are many makes and models in the 15 to 25 foot group. Above that the boats get much heavier and start to sport a keel. There goes the shallow draft. New is not always better. If you don't think that you will have a need for speed while sailing then you don't need the Mac.As is often advised walk the docks and talk to the owner of the smaller boats, learn from them what they like and don't like about their boats. I sail a 30 foot Islander but there are many boats in our marina the are in the group you have asked about and they get used a lot.

Capt. Kermie · Feb 14, 2007

Wrong on both counts

Main Sail wrote:"The Catalina weighs in at 4150 lbs and the Mac at 2100.""they all will out sail a Mac like it was anchored."To compare apples to apples - with ballast the Mac weighs 3700 lbs, add the engine for an additional 200+lbs, engine is ballast when mounted that low. How much does the catalina weigh if one removes the ballasted keel? Nothing like twisting the specs to make a false impression!Exagerations only serve to diminish your credibility, the Mac may not be the best sailboat but no boat out there will "outsail it like it was anchored" get a grip and get real. There are literally thousands of MacGregors out there and every year a thousand new ones are built and sold. That many buyers cannot all be wrong, the Mac appeals to a larger market for many reasons.

newsailor06 · Feb 14, 2007

We have a C-25

We have a 1985 Catalina 25 standard rig/fin keel and have owned her for about a year now. We are new to sailing and thought this boat provided a good platform for learning how to sail, and a boat with a good reputation. We love the boat and are glad that we decided to purchase it. The P.O. had really taken great care of her and we are owners #4. The only major thing that we have done since purchase is refinish the teak on the exterior. I say major, because we sanded our hearts out. However, we only have the hand rails on the cabin top left to do. However, all that said, there are 4 things that are causing us to look up in size. 1. Admiral wants a fully enclosed head. 2. We want a better galley area. 3. We want a V-berth or rear cabin that provides a little more comfort. and 4. I want to get the bruise off of the top of my head. The interior is fine, but I keep hitting my head on a bulkhead rail that holds a curtain track. I am only 5'10", and I feel like I am getting a permanent stoop. We are currently looking at a Catalina 270, or a Catalina 28 MKII. Either of these will provide numbers 1-4 above. Just wanted to add my input from a newbie.

Maine Sail · Feb 14, 2007

Actually...

I was comparing apples to apples. I was comparing a 1985 Mac 25 displacing 2100 pounds with 680 lbs of balast to a 1985 Catalina 25 displacing 4150 lbs with 1500 lbs of balast. You need to add a motor to both boats. Are you trying to say a Mac is as well built as a Catalina here? I was simply trying ot point out the absurdity of a post below saying that a Mac is the same as a Catalina, Hunter or Beneteau. Sure there were many built but that does not make it as well built a vessel as the above mentioned. The Ford Escort was once the biggest production car in the world but it was still a poorly built car when compared to a Corola or a Civic.Your the one not comparing apples to apples. If I'm not mistaken you're using the Mac 26X numbers. I'm talking about two 25 footers of the same vintage both 1985's and both 25 feet. Even if we were to compare a 1995 Mac 26M to a 1995 Hunter 26 the Hunter still weighs 550 pounds more and this again is comparing apples to apples both water balasted models both 26 feet both 1995's. I have no problems with Mac's but when someone makes an absurd statement it's wrong. I'll say it again the layup schedules are far beefier on a Catalina, Hunter and a beneteau than they are on a Mac.

Abby Normal · Feb 14, 2007

Hunter 260

I own a Mac 25 and love it. I like a classic sailboat personally, so a Mac 26X/M isn't necessarily high on my future boat list.If you don't care or have need for a 50 HP motor then pass on the Mac. A Hunter 260 will give you great headroom, feels roomier, and trailers well. Good used examples are available in the $16 to $24K price range. I am aware of a mid-'90's which is becoming available at my marina. I've sailed a 260 and really liked it. If you want a boat that will handle a 50 HP motor, Mac is the way to go.Just remember there is trade off and Capt. Kermie may or may not agree with me but if you want a boat which is great under power, you will sacrifice some one sailing ability. If you primarily want great sailing, it won't motor as well or fast.

Ross · Feb 14, 2007

I was down at the public library the other day

and found a set of BUC books (prices guides for boats from 1903 to the present day) On this forum you would be led to believe that there are perhaps six brands of boats that were produced. But I am inclined to think that there have been hundreds of builders of small sailboats, some of which were poorly built and no longer exist and, many which were over built and therefore not profitable and the builder went out of business. If a person wants a late model boat he is limited to a few models and makes but if age is not a deal breaker then there is an almost unlimited number to choose from.

Waffle · Feb 14, 2007

Ross I agree

Fords, Chevrolets, Saturns and yogos (ok leave out yogos) are all in the same class. I like VWs but would also put them in that class too (VW's TDI engine is the best small car diesel on the market). There are different reason we like certain boats. I like Hunters for some, Catalina for other and Ben for some too. I like Catalina the best but it is NO IP or Tartan.A lot of people like the M-26x. The speeds is a great feature. I would love to out run a storm at 22 MPH or have the availability to pull a skier or tube. The cabin layout is nice too. The newer hull design sail better than the 1990s models. The don't sail as good or have the same hardware as a other boat that is true.Macgregor has been building sailboats for a long time. They build a good strong boat and in my opinion they are in the same class as the big three production boats. They are a different type of boat built for owner that want the best of both worlds.

r.w.landau · Feb 14, 2007

No one has mentioned a Seaward 25.

I have yet to get on one but the boat is built like a rock and the rigging is pretty stout.They claim a shallow draft.I believe they also make a trailerable 30.There is a 25 on our lake and it doesn't look fast but it is definately a nice boat. Yelling back and forth between boats, the owner claims a 6 foot head room.Just an Idea...r.w.landau

Waffle · Feb 14, 2007

Maine Sail your point is well taken

but did you ever think about the fact that the M-26 has to plane off? Many that is the reason for the lay-up schedules difference, weight?We are talking about day sailor not coastal cruisers or off shore boats. The Mac-26X has one thing over our boats, speed!

DanW9494 · Feb 14, 2007

Range of sailing

The distance you can sail/motor with the planing sailboats is so much more. If sailing is enjoying the journey, then powerboating is enjoying the destination sooner and longer. To motor to a distant sailing grounds, enjoy a longer day there sailing and exploring and then get back quickly is beyond displacement boats. With all respect for the joys of sailing, I respect the reasons why someone would own a Mac 26 X or M. Their community seems just as vibrant and enthusiastic as this one.There are more expensive similar boats made overseas for those who want nicer or sturdier for twice as much money.I think more people are cruising and sailing in 2 or 3 hulls to get more of that range and speed, it gives more options. I fully respect that people who dream of being like the Pardeys will disagree.That said I almost bought a 26M, but got a h216 daysailor and will get a Telstar 28 when i have more time for sailing. That is unless this excellent site can work its magic and keep a keel under me. Dan

Peter · Feb 14, 2007

$20,000=many options

Seaspot, your price range really opens up many, many options so you'll need to ask yourself a few questions to narrow down your search. I agree with MikeH; you can get a very nice mid-20s boat in that range, indeed around 30 feet. That is a good size for daysailers, but I think you'll start to rub elbows with bulkheads and probably smack your head enough times to want a bigger boat. This is an especial consideration if you plan on cruising anywhere. As a fisherman, you are surely familiar with the Chesapeake Bay chop, and there is a big difference between a heavier 30 footer and a trailer-sailer. The trailer-sailer will feel like your powerboats when they're adrift--snap, roll, and pound upwind. Heavier boats, of course, are smoother, and I think the power generated in the bigger, stable rig is more exhilerating than 400 hp skipping you along at 50 knots (the smaller rigs don't quite generate that same feeling). Now, you can get a good boat of that size for that price as well. It may not be as well outfitted, but I'm a fan of old school back-basics sailing so I don't think that should matter. You mention the Island Packet, which has the full keel and heavy displacement, exactly the type I'm talking about giving you the feeling of power and stability. That money can get you somewhat older 30 footer or so, which is plenty of boat. All the above mentioned builds I would consider with the exception of the MacGregor. In my opinion, you'll do as well to step a mast in the 26-footer and sail that. You mentioned desiring a trailerable because you live in Strasburg and can avoid slip fees. That's a big consideration, but I think you need to weigh your desires for what you want to do. You may find you get the trailerable and decide to go cruising but you don't have the boat you want so you don't sail as often. Or, you get the bigger boat to go cruising but find you don't go cruising as much so you end up spending slip fees you could've avoided. I'd rather not have a boat going to waste in the backyard. You'll find though the mid20 footers are a good compromise. Plus, the bigger boat gives you plenty of options to customize and really make it your boat, so it's exactly what you want when you cruise when it's all you've got, and that's part of the enjoyment of owning a sailboat. Choices....choices.

ljk · Feb 14, 2007

Someone that loves

to sail. Knows how to truly sail... not just point off the wind and go (any bonehead can do tha), but knows how to get every knot out of a 15 kt wind, tht knows how to handle a problem on the water, will pass on a mac.. any Mac.Everyone has the boat they love in mind. Opinions are like..... you know and everyone has one.If you love to be on the water and want the diversity of the mac, God bless buy it and enjoy.If you truly want to learn the finer nuances of sailing, get the hunter or catalina. I have a boat here in Bradenton..... I love my boat, how it was dsigned and the way it handled 20kt winds last weekend. But this is what I love and you could hate it.Decide if you want "the average" of both worlds or the best of one.Good luck to you and to some of you that see every thing in black and white.... ease up a little, we all have our own wants and desires out of our boats.

dvideohd · Feb 14, 2007

Other Considerations....

There is good reason to have a solid Trailer Boat... in any Ocean environment, my Mac 25 just will not be the right choice. For lakes in Texas, Galveston or other bays, and the ICW, a Mac can do really well. When that heavy weather comes, as it WILL, then I want to load up and get away from the coast. Bigger boats are much harder - if possible - to get out and away from incoming major storms.. So they each have their good points, as folks point out here - even when it comes to weather issues... May be you should just try a few days "out" and see what you like. think how each will affect you cost wise, how you slip/garage, and on what you like to do... Some day you will sell (likely!!) this boat you are getting... You might get another. The different experiences are like the fine wines. I also mention community size - just for fun. There are lot of Mac MODERS out there - and have posted some GREAT mods. My Mac was in fairly rough condition. But it was and is EASY to work on - Spartan in design and cost. You could say "built lighter" - but that means EASIER in EVERY respect to work on. It's fun to mod the boat. Almost as fun to fix something that needs it... At the end of the experience, your support and cash outlay will not be as great (IMHO) as for some other boat choices... Go try some different boats and see!! best thing to do!!--jerryOne other thought... when you make that trip to the Bahamas - you might want to "hurry on across" the Gulf Stream... that big motor will matter then... ditto on getting back to the marina before that "rolling front" comes in...

Bill · Feb 14, 2007

rearview mirror...

My personal favorite Mac mod is the rearview mirror. B

Tom Spohn · Feb 14, 2007

Apples and apples please.

The MacGregor 26M weighs 2550 lbs dry (for trailering) and adds an additional 1150 lbs of water ballast when sailing. Total: 3700 lbs. The outboard engine adds another 250 to 300 lbs depending on the model. This brings the total pretty close to 4000 lbs.http://www.macgregor26.com/I have owned both the X and the M model. They were both tender but hardened up when heeled. Did not sail as well as an equivalent keelboat, but with the 50 (X) to 70 (M) hp motor they got out of the way when need be.The older Macs usually had 9 hp motors and were more like classic sailboats. In a club I belonged to the M owners and X owners had lengthy discussions about which boat was faster in a race, but for our annual race a 70+ year old couple in a Mac Classic always came in first. Not even close!There are lots of great boats out there that would work, but if trailering is a high priority the Mac is the best.

higgs · Feb 14, 2007

Know what you are getting

MacGregor:Mast and rigging is too light.Hull is thinPoor sailing performanceGood under powerCheap interiorBeyond the above they are great boats.

DanW9494 · Feb 14, 2007

Perspective is everything

Hunter, Catalina, Beneteau, any mass produced sailboat:Mast and rigging is too light.Hull is thinPoor sailing performanceGood under powerCheap interiorBeyond the above they are great boats.I agree with the truth of your statement that Macgregor is not built the same, their owners will agree i believe. But their boats do not fail in knockdowns or microbursts, and their boat costs $20k new, motor extra. It is sad to see the caste system in sailing. One step up the food chain is just as evident on sailing anarchy. It's a shame that Macgregor sailors go to a different site, because they are the untouchables of sailing. The most popular production sailboat in America says something about America. Yugo never succeeded. Japanese tin cans succeeded because of their value compared to GM, Ford, and Dodge, I mean Hunter, Catalina, and Beneteau in no particular order. A lot of "great boats" are going to get bought by previous Macgregor owners, let them in the club.

Macgregor and other boats, opinions needed.

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