Looking for Objective Opinions..
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I agree about the Northsea 27... it's a beautiful boat but it's sadly out of my price range unless I plan on getting one that's pretty run down..
My sea experience is definitely lacking I won't lie. I've sailed alot but always with experienced people who took the lead and all I really did was winch in sails, coil lines, and drink beer. My entire life i've had the same goal however, and i'm stubborn enough to throw caution to the wind. haha I definitely understand that most people today look at what I want to do and think something is wrong in my head... but... this rat race lifestyle isn't for me.... and after years of trying to live the American dream... I just can't do it anymore. After reading a few Don Casey books I decided it's time to act.
I've actually heard the same thing... that those older fiberglass boats are built thick, heavy, and long lasting. That's one of the main reasons that buying an older boat (in all actuality i'll probably end up with a 60's or 70's built boat.) doesn't bother me. Hell... Jarle Andhoys boat (i believe it was built in 72) was 27 feet long, fiberglass, and went to Antarctica!!!
Nevermind the fact that his same boat also sank in Chile while at anchor.
haha, of course I wouldn't do THAT Scott... but while at sea I have no problem with it. It's also a known fact that sea water disposes of human waste very readily. Compounded with the fact that I don't dispose of tons of waste at a time (unless there's a Taco Bell in the middle of the Atlantic..)... I don't really see the problem.
Very true Ross! I'm trying to take my time, not rush things (hard for me to do), and also rely on people with more knowledge on the subject than me! If I trusted my own instincts i'd prolly be floating half dead on a life raft somewhere..
I liked alot of this reply.
hahaThere is NOTHING on the other side of the ocean that is drawing me that way. But, in my mind, if i'm going to finally do this... I want the option to cross if I so choose... and I am guessing I will.
Your absolutely right about fixing up an old boat being expensive... I was shocked at how much some of that stuff (even paint!) costs!! I have fortunately been blessed with friends who hate the American duldrum of life just as much as me, and they've offered their support to the project. Also, i'll have 2 people, myself and my friend who is going to be sailing with me, to put in the work and also to put in work for a paycheck. Also, i'm lucky enough to have a friend who is a marine mechanic to help out with electrical and engine problems.
I live in Michigan... the worst economy in the states currently... but aside from complete financial ruin (again.. haha) nothing will stop me. Laziness and complacency are not options here.
Older Hunter 27's are DEFINITELY available for WELL UNDER 5k (i just seen one sell on ebay motors, with sails and all, floating in a slip and available for inspection, for 1,500..)... however... in the older Hunters i've read about many problems with leaks and delamination. I am not speaking on the subject as an expert by ANY means, so don't think i'm bashing the brand, but... as of this moment I am leaning away from the old Hunters. (and since I can't afford a new one... that pretty much disqualifys the brand)
HAHA!! Best reply i've read so far!! Thanks for the encouragement Ken, and allow me to expand on the subject of having a head onboard (i'm still literally laughing at your awesome reply)... I am not AGAINST having a toilet on board haha, but the lack of having a head onboard appeals to me for 3 main reasons:
1) It broadens my search because not having a toilet onboard will not disqualify a boat from my consideration.
2) More space on board, which is nice on a 27 footer.
3) One less through-hull fitting to worry about.
You're spot on about the Marina jobs too! I live in Brighton, Michigan currently, but I grew up in New Baltimore on Lake St. Clair. I was a SOHO Engineer for 6 years but these days I take odd jobs (also fix computers on the side), and I thought the SAME thing. Luckily, I have space available to me free of charge for work on my boat, and also a free place to stay while restoring the boat, and since my sister worked for a Marina in Saint Clair Shores I was thinking the SAME thing! In fact, next weekend i'm going there and applying at all the Marinas along the coast!! One of the reasons I liked your reply so much was cause I felt like it was a wiser version of myself talking to... myself.
If any of you guys are interested or in the area, the boat will be at 25 Mile Road and Gratiot area in Chesterfield, MI for the duration of the restoration project. If you happen to live in the area feel free to stop by and check it out. I'll be the guy sweating his ass off and looking miserable but with the hugest smile you've ever seen on my face!
Very good advice Ed! That was something I haden't considered when I started looking around. Fortunately, my brother in laws father is a long time sailor (competes in the Mackinac race every year as well!), and he immediately told me the SAME thing when I went to him for advice. (i'm rapidly realizing that I chose the right sight for some solid information, and I thank you guys very much for it!) Living in Michigan has some benefits it looks like! haha. But yes, I am DEFINITELY going to try and find a freshwater boat on the Great Lakes and simply sail it home. I'm going to bring my brother in laws dad with me to inspect the boat I choose... but if I find a good deal on a salt water boat I will DEFINITELY get a professional survey done... and to pay for a survey... it'd have to be a heck of a deal...
I have heard many good things about the Pearson. I'm not a fan of it's looks but... i'm not all that good lookin either so how picky can I be!?!?
About 1969 I dicided I wanted to build a boat and knew nothing about what I was doing. Fortunately we moved before I got started and I had to put the idea on hold. I didn't put the dream on hold and went to the library and the book sellers and started to aquire books and knowledge. A bout 1980 I bought a 15 foot Grumman aluminum canoe and we paddled that for a couple of years until I put a sail and outriggers on it. That was too small for Nancy and it didn't have a potty. So we started the boat show, marina walking routine. In 1989 on Thanksging weekend we found a 1968 Islander 30 for 5k. It was in bad shape but had all of the pieces so we bought it and had it delivered to our side yard at the house. Right next to my shop. Everytime I took something out to repair I uncovered a new problem. It is enough to say that to make the needed repairs I had to completely strip it interior and start from a bare hull. When I finished in 1999 I had a completely new boat with a reinforced 30 year old hull. When we put her in the water she floated on her lines. If I had the years and the money I would do it again. The boat is a custom built cruiser for two people and capable of taking us to places we will only dream of. Someone will get a very nice boat in about twenty years.
The idea of rebuilding a cored deck makes me want to puke. That is the part of the project that is going to piss me off the most I think. It'll be a labor of love no doubt but... a few choice words will be uttered i'm sure..
The Bristol seems to be the most favored of the two... but it's SO ugly! Style doesn't mean much to me but DAAAAANNNNNGGG is that boat ugly!! The Vega is no looker either (that GIGANTIC rear window could be trouble... not to mention it looks like crap) but DAAANG. In all reality though... if it came down to it, and I found a Vega and a Bristol of the same year and same price... i'd take the Bristol. It's thick, heavy, well built, and has the reputation to back up the facts.
Do they make outboard Diesels?
For sure man and thanks for the encouragement! I'm definitely not looking for anything fancy or the prettiest girl at the ball so i'm sure my expectations will be met. It seems like the older fiberglass boats are built more solid for blue water travel anyways... as long as the core is in good shape!
7 or 8 grand for an engine!!!!?!?!? I'd be sunk before I got in the water!! haha
If I had to buy an engine, it'd be an outboard. I'm a cheap bastard!
Ross, I appreciate this kind of information because it lets me know that it can be done. The reason my initial post about this specifically said that I wasn't looking for a debate is because I already have enough people looking at me like i'm nuts! Hopefully the restoration takes less than 10 years though!!
When I say that it was a complete refit I mean it. new windows, The removal of the hull deck joint and completely glassing it. New built in water tanks built in holding tank. Raise the companion to be higher than the cockpit and that of course meant new companion steps. A complete re modeling of the galley, new engine, that meant new exhaust,fuel system, new electricals, Conversion to wheel steering, reduction of the cockpit size and use the reduced space for a lazerette with batteries and fuel tank separate propane locker. Ten gallon capacity ice box. ventilated storage and access to every square inch of the hull not covered by a bulkhead.
..at least you know what you want, that goes a long way. Most people with an idea like yours will fizzle out. I hope you don't.
Crossing oceans and supply storage
First off let me say that what you are thinking of is not done very often for the reasons that follow. But it as been done.
If you are going to be crossing oceans in a small boat with a partner then you need to do some serious research on food and water, cook fuel, and gear storage. For a 30' boat I'd be figuring around 4 knots max as a conservative speed of crossing. A little math would lead one to believe that it will take you 3000 NM/4 knots = 750 hours or 31.25 days at least. That's a lot of supplies to pack into a 30' hull. I'll assume right of the bat that you and your partner will be sleeping together. Since most 30'ers don't have 2 births you are left with at best the normal storage spaces, a 1/4 birth, and any under sole/seat spaces.
Go consider how much room food for two people for a month is going to occupy. Without a reefer you are stuck with dry/caned food that does not need to be kept cold. No cold beer, sigh. This is going to make a cramped situation pretty unbearable till you can eat yourself some space. I'd recommend doing a week long menu and see how much space that takes up and multiply by 4. Can you even get that much food into the boat? Just something to consider.
I'm also thinking watermaker to save space of 5 gal/day/person*2 persons*31.25 days= 312.5 gallons of water needed.for drinking, cooking, and washing. Having a sea water tap at the sink would be nice to help clean the dishes then rinse in fresh. I don't know of any 30'er that has that kind of tankage for water so I'm thinking jerry cans on deck or a hand pump watermaker. An electric one will bust your energy budget. You could also collect rain water but that would be accepting some risk depending on where you are thinking of going.
Cooking fuel storage is less of a problem with propane. Just store the extra tanks on deck.
Add a life raft, spair parts, tools to fix stuff. reading materials, safety gear, clothing, wet weather gear....... You get the picture.
It has been done but it is not easy
My advice would be make a detailed list of stuff you would need and determine if what you are asking of your little boat is even physically possible.
I had the same dream till I took my family on a week long cruise in our 30' Catalina. two adults and 3 small boys. I had to sleep on the deck and the wife and boys slept on the table. We had the 1/4 birth PACKED, stuff under the table, all the normal storage spaces and every nook or cranny filled to overflowing for all the gear sans the life raft, reading materials,and oddball spare parts. We had a blast but there where nights where I did get pretty wet.
FWIW. Good luck and see you on the waters
First off let me say that what you are thinking of is not done very often for the reasons that follow. But it as been done.
If you are going to be crossing oceans in a small boat with a partner then you need to do some serious research on food and water, cook fuel, and gear storage. For a 30' boat I'd be figuring around 4 knots max as a conservative speed of crossing. A little math would lead one to believe that it will take you 3000 NM/4 knots = 750 hours or 31.25 days at least. That's a lot of supplies to pack into a 30' hull. I'll assume right of the bat that you and your partner will be sleeping together. Since most 30'ers don't have 2 births you are left with at best the normal storage spaces, a 1/4 birth, and any under sole/seat spaces.
Go consider how much room food for two people for a month is going to occupy. Without a reefer you are stuck with dry/caned food that does not need to be kept cold. No cold beer, sigh. This is going to make a cramped situation pretty unbearable till you can eat yourself some space. I'd recommend doing a week long menu and see how much space that takes up and multiply by 4. Can you even get that much food into the boat? Just something to consider.
I'm also thinking watermaker to save space of 5 gal/day/person*2 persons*31.25 days= 312.5 gallons of water needed.for drinking, cooking, and washing. Having a sea water tap at the sink would be nice to help clean the dishes then rinse in fresh. I don't know of any 30'er that has that kind of tankage for water so I'm thinking jerry cans on deck or a hand pump watermaker. An electric one will bust your energy budget. You could also collect rain water but that would be accepting some risk depending on where you are thinking of going.
Cooking fuel storage is less of a problem with propane. Just store the extra tanks on deck.
Add a life raft, spair parts, tools to fix stuff. reading materials, safety gear, clothing, wet weather gear....... You get the picture.
It has been done but it is not easy
My advice would be make a detailed list of stuff you would need and determine if what you are asking of your little boat is even physically possible.
I had the same dream till I took my family on a week long cruise in our 30' Catalina. two adults and 3 small boys. I had to sleep on the deck and the wife and boys slept on the table. We had the 1/4 birth PACKED, stuff under the table, all the normal storage spaces and every nook or cranny filled to overflowing for all the gear sans the life raft, reading materials,and oddball spare parts. We had a blast but there where nights where I did get pretty wet.
FWIW. Good luck and see you on the waters
Re: Crossing oceans and supply storage
The afore mentioned generalizations are good but! Allow that 2000 calories per person per day is more than enough food. Meat, dry cereal based foods are generally about 1500 cal;ories or more per pound, fruit fresh is about half that and dried or canned is a bit more. So for a thirty day ocean crossing with a twenty day safety factor we need between 75 and 100 pounds of food per person. This isn't a large volume. 5 Gallons of water per day per person exceeds our experience on Bietzpadlin by a factor of four. We wash with a bowl of water and a wash cloth and don't waste water. I built a 75 gallon water tank system into Bietzpadlin in three tanks. Of course you have a sea water pump in the galley. 5 pounds of flour will make six 22 ounce loaves of bread or 120 muffins.
The need for discipline on an ocean crossing is obvious but it need not be a trip of deprivation.
The afore mentioned generalizations are good but! Allow that 2000 calories per person per day is more than enough food. Meat, dry cereal based foods are generally about 1500 cal;ories or more per pound, fruit fresh is about half that and dried or canned is a bit more. So for a thirty day ocean crossing with a twenty day safety factor we need between 75 and 100 pounds of food per person. This isn't a large volume. 5 Gallons of water per day per person exceeds our experience on Bietzpadlin by a factor of four. We wash with a bowl of water and a wash cloth and don't waste water. I built a 75 gallon water tank system into Bietzpadlin in three tanks. Of course you have a sea water pump in the galley. 5 pounds of flour will make six 22 ounce loaves of bread or 120 muffins.
The need for discipline on an ocean crossing is obvious but it need not be a trip of deprivation.
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