Looking for Objective Opinions..

[Scribbin]

Hey Guys, i'm new to this site and this is my first post, so... although I expect everyone here is friendly and trying to help... i'm not looking for bashing of my opinions, or people telling me my ideas are junk... so please only reply to this question if you're planning on offering objective information that may be usefull to MY plans, cause i'm not looking for a debate.

So my question is:

I plan on buying my first big(ger) sailboat within the year. And although I know what I want, and i've definitely done my research, i've not had the chance to sail onboard any of the vessels i've heard the best things about. I'll give you some quick info: I will be living aboard, along with a friend of mine, for at least a year, but probably significantly longer. I plan on crossing the ocean so I need something proven in blue water. I will be buying something under $5,000 and fixing it up myself. I am not looking for anything over 30 feet but probably more like 27 feet. YES I understand 27's are cramped. YES I know bigger boats are generally more seaworthy. YES I know that's a small budget for my demands. YES I know purchase price doesn't equate to the full cost of ownership. All i'm looking for here are some folks with more hardcore sea experience than me to help me choose a boat that fits what I already KNOW I want.

I know the Bristol 27 and the Albin Vega 27 are both commonly known sailboats with some pretty well founded reputations under their belt. I'm not concerned with crapping over the side or anything, so it doesn't have to be fancy. So out of those 2 boats... if anybody can help me decide which might be the superior buy... PLEASE give me your personal opinion, as well as WHY that's your opinion. Also, if you have any worthwile information about some other boats that may be equivilant or better than these 2 i've mentioned.. I am definitely open to ideas.

I've also more or less settled on a wind generator over solar... but... this is an area that my knowledge is hurting, so please feel free to inform me if my decision may be the incorrect one.

No, I am not an expert, and the extent of my sailing experience is sailing a no-name 28'er in Lake St. Clair here in Michigan with my brother in law. I was also homeless for 2 years, so living in confined spaces still beats pavement, and therefore space considerations and comfort don't mean as much to me as the usual man. This has been my life long dream... and now that i'm back on my feet I am finally able to pursue it at the age of 26. Looking pretty, being able to stretch out, crapping in a toilet, and shower/refridgeration don't mean a thing to me. Please keep all these things in mind. Thanks guys... and thanks for baring with me cause I know i'm pretty long winded and hard headed.

 

[FastOlson]

Sounds like you're looking for a good foundation to build on. You have named a couple of good ones. I would add the Cascade 29 to that short list. Also the Ericson 27 and 29 models (an E-27 has done a Pacific crossing and there is an E-29 presently on a circumnavigation. Since you are one the right coast, there are probably other excellent regional choices that local sailors can point you toward.
Happy hunting,
L

 

[higgs]

There was a guy who beefed up an old Cal 25 and took himself and his wife and his 2 kids around the world. the Cruising World mag site may have some info on what he did as they called him yachtman of the year.

 

[Stu Jackson]

Objective and Realistic

Those might be the two things you have in mind. With that size and more importantly that budget, you may well not be able to satisfy both of your goals with the same boat.

1. inexpensive
2. able to cross an ocean


While it's hard to determine your aptitudes, even though you tried (i.e., big(ger) first - first boat or first bigger boat?), and we don't know your sailing or boat owning experience,
Perhaps you might take it one step at a time.

Buy a boat that suits you now, sail the heck out of her, and figure out what'll suit ya for a crossing down the line.

Unless...unless you've done all that and you're trying to narrow down your search to boat that we may know about for your consideration.

Your choices are good. Also Cape Dory, any Allied Seawind, Allberg and others of their fine ilk.

There's also the Northsea 27, but I doubt you'll find onek even a complete fixer-upper, for anything south of many times your budget.

Hence, the dilemma.

Thanks for joining the group. We look forward to having you here.

Many folks, as you might guess, have asked the same question, because once ya got da bug, mon...

All the best, Fair Winds,

Stu

 

[Stu Jackson]

There was a guy who beefed up an old Cal 25 and took himself and his wife and his 2 kids around the world. the Cruising World mag site may have some info on what he did as they called him yachtman of the year.

Dave and JaJa Martin. Forget their kid's names. They went ashore for a while, bought a bigger boat and are out there again.

 

[Ross]

The Southern Cross wasn't mentioned but any of the boats named have the reputation for being capable. It almost comes down to a question of which is a better reliable car a ford , or a chevy, or a plymouth, or a honda, or a toyota, They are all good and will serve you well. The most important thing is that after you decide you don't lie awake second guessing yourself.

 

[Winkfish]

Higgs mentioned a Cal 25. A friend of mine has a Cal 36 - it is a tank of a boat (and I mean that in a good way). I understand Cals are generally like that, at least from the era of the 60's when his boat was built. He told me that it was before they really knew how strong fiberglass was, so the hulls were built thick. It is heavy, but it is strong.

 

[zeehag]

Higgs mentioned a Cal 25. A friend of mine has a Cal 36 - it is a tank of a boat (and I mean that in a good way). I understand Cals are generally like that, at least from the era of the 60's when his boat was built. He told me that it was before they really knew how strong fiberglass was, so the hulls were built thick. It is heavy, but it is strong.

NOW yer talking chepe sturdy SAILING boat. yes cal 25--yipes they are a sailing dream. 36--go cruising. lapworth, jensen. wenk =cal. excellent .
here, cal 25 are found at around 500-1500 unless yot club perfect. cal 34 can be found around
3k-13k. condition. engine. most came with atom bomb--easily fixed-- atomic bomb trades for garbage and diesel installs.

 

[Gary_H]

I vote for a Cal natually hehe....seriously they are built like tanks but then there are many fine older boats as mentioned above.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I'm still trying to avoid ...

the image of Scribbin crapping over the side when he's anchored next to one of us in our favorite anchorage. It's too bad he's not concerned. I vote for Scribbin accepting the first free boat that's offered and sailing faaaarrrr off-shore.

 

[Ross]

Re: I'm still trying to avoid ...

One of the many problems I have seen with first time boat buyers is the gross lack of research that goes into making an intelligent choice when buying a boat. They don't know what shape they want, or concern themselves with storage space, boats are built for broad or narrow purpose. No one would try to race a Flicka against a J 24 and hope to keep the j boat in sight. One the other hand no one in his right mind would attempt an ocean crossing in a J 24. Which is the better boat----------it depends.

 

[Hermit Scott]

What's on the other side of the ocean that is drawing your attention? Or is crossing the ocean what is drawing your attention?
I bought a 30 foot boat for $3,500 and have been fixing it for a few years now. I do all my own work. I have a pretty complete fab shop, lots of tools. It is my first boat. I have alot of experience fixing-making-building-inventing things. All that said I will tell you, fixing a boat is expensive. You can find a boat cheap as you have probably seen already, but if you need to buy running rigging, standing rigging, sails, through hulls, deck hardware, and don't even get me started on the friggin diesel, there is just no way around it, those parts are expensive in the face of what you spent on the boat.
I bought my boat with a less ambitious dream than yours, I just wanted to sail over to the Bahamas from Texas. It's been a few years and now I am not so convinced I even want to do that. I love my boat, I even like working on my boat. But we found a slip in a nice resort island on the Texas coast and it is great just to hang out and daysail.

I lived in my car for 2 weeks when I was 19. I forgot about it until I read your post. I live in a place I built in the topfloor of my warehouse that I built myself. everyone's perspective is different as to how much is enough space. I agree with you that a 27 footer is a whole lot better than a car or a doorway.

The most important thing I have learned about boats and probably life is; you will need a place to crap that's not over the side of your boat.

 

[Steve Dion]

Remember: something under $5,000

You may need to take a few of these boats out of the mix. You cannot buy a decent H'27 for $5k.

 

[kenn]

Scribbin - go for it!

I think your plan has a solid foundation - to buy a solid "beater" boat in well-used but restorable condition, and restore her.

What can I add that's new and useful?
- try to find a job in/around marinas on a coastal city. Ideally, an apprenticeship with a good boat mechanic, a boatworks or marina, or similar. First of all, the pay will be minimum-ish but you'll learn tons and make connections. Also a great way to find that sailboat bargain before others do. Boating is still a relatively small community, so you will get introduced to all the key people in your harbour, find out where all the deals are, and hopefully find a cheap/free place to keep your boat. You will also be in the right place/time to grab some great used boat stuff as the rich folks upgrade.
- if you make a plan, stick to your plan, and be patient, it will happen.

As a personal favour to me... repair or install the toilet. Marine heads aren't that expensive, or difficult to maintain. Also, most man-overboard situations happen when someone is relieving themselves over da side :naughty:

And don't neglect the safety equipment.

 

[Ross]

Buy some books on the subject of interior boat fnishes. Bingham, Nicholson, come to mind and there are many others.

 

[Ed Schenck]

Your workload would be much reduced if you find a Great Lakes boat instead of a salt water boat. Anything in your price range is going to be quite old and salt will have done its work. So as a test I did a Yacht World search for 27 foot boats under $6000., on the Great Lakes and fiberglass. Only five were found. I am not familiar with the Coronado but would definitely look at the Tartan. Changing the search to a range of 27 to 30 only added two more boats, one a 1973 Pearson. Now there's a boat I would do a crossing in.

 

[okawbow]

The Bristol 27 is probably more available, and can often be had for under $5000.00 without an engine. Most had engine wells anyway; so a comparitively less expensive outboard will get you out of the harbor. if you find a B27 for that money; be prepared to do some fairly major rebuilding of the deck core and bulkheads. I restored a bristol 24 with a diesel, for less than $5000.00 including the purchase price, so I know it can be done.
I've been re-doing the basics on a Cheoy Lee 31 for over a year now. I've only spent about $5000.00 total so far, including the purchase. The boat is ready for sea trials next week, but the interior is still stripped. I'll probably put another $5000.00 into her before I'm done, and I am super carefull with my money. I buy most things used, and do all the work myself.

Good luck with your project.

 

[Steve Dion]

I guess I do not see the economics in purchasing a boat with these types of goals (crossing oceans etc), trying to keep the cost under a budget number and then having to spend many, many thousands of dollars to get it ready to go.

My thinking is it would be better to get a boat that is 80-90% as a starting point. Just a new set of sails and rigging on one of these boats could run as much as 50% or more of the purchase cost.

I would re-evaluate the situation and see what you an get for $10-12k. No motor? No sails? No toilet? I really don't think so.

 

[zeehag]

there are perfectly good boats out there with sails, toilets, and cushions that can be found for 1500-3000, in the 30 ft size to 34 ft size--might not have an engine in running condition. look for lien sale boats in marinas and for cal 30-34 , built in the 1960s--they are brick sh**houses. sail like a charm and are not bad inside--basic sail boat.

 

[Ross]

There are no doubt very good boats with good sails and rigging that may only need minor repairs and a new engine. If you can find a boat that pleases you for 5 thousand and spend 7 or 8 thousand for a new engine then you will have a fine boat with a brand new engine for 13 thousand or less. I wonder where you could buy a boat with good sails, standing and running rigging and a new engine for that price. Having to spend some time repairing the interior and making it the boat that pleases you is not a bad effort.