You are not considering the toxic gases that are emitted from the cells.
Lithium Iron Phosphate Battery
- Thread starter Jeff LeMunyon
- Start date
If you are going to hang your hat on just ABYC, you are missing the boat on this evolving technology and drastically evolving experiences learned from system failures. Not just fires but the products they produce leading up to ignition. Your best bet, in my opinion, is to follow the fire services journey with this technology.Unfortunately, some of the information presented in the quoted post is misleading and irrelevant. When properly installed lithium iron phosphate (LiFePO4 or LFP) batteries are safe. In fact, even when abused they do not present a significant safety hazard.
In the linked video a battery alleged to be a LFP battery is repeatedly hit with a large metal digging bar, eventually some smoke appears and after additional strikes with the bar flames appear. This kind of pseudoscience is a simply a distraction. What makes it pseudoscience? We can start with the absence of any any safety protocols even basic PPE. Then there is no a priori protocol guiding the "test," it is just whack it with a big metal pole to see what happens and then whack it again. In the video they state the battery has already been damaged by other "tests" they have conducted. To their credit, they do state they believe this fire is burning electrolyte and not the thermal run away fires other lithium chemistries are prone to. Ask yourself, how often are the batteries in your boat subject to the conditions depicted in the video?
The article about the lithium battery fire that went on for two weeks is simply irrelevant to a discussion about LFP batteries on boats. While the cause of the fire was not reported, it was reported lithium ion batteries were involved. Some lithium battery chemistries present a greater fire risk than LFP batteries which appear to have little to no risk of spontaneous fire. The source of this article should also be considered. It appears to part of a marketing effort and not legitimate journalism. (See the image of the page header below.) Clearly they are motivated to raise anxiety in order to sell their services.
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ABYC has conducted extensive destructive testing of LFP batteries and not been able to set them on fire although by driving a couple nails into one battery they were able to get to smoke. ABYC is confident enough in LFP safety that they have issued standards for installation. Follow those standards and use appropriate equipment and you will be safe.
ABYC Ratifies E-13, their first lithium battery standard
The ABYC has ratified standard E-13 for lithium ion batteries on boats. Let's take a look at the standard and what it means for boaters.panbo.com
And a real world example of what can happen when a LFP battery is over charged:
Solar Charge Controller Failures - Professional BoatBuilder Magazine
Solar charge controller failure can damage battery management systems. Informed choices and a sound installation help prevent problemswww.proboat.com
In the end it behooves all of us to vet our information sources before posting. Providing information of dubious provenance is a distraction from productive and informative discussion.
Mike your perspective from a fire services professional is appreciated. We both know there are risks with almost all of the components of our boats should they catch fire, those risks need to be understood and managed. And first responders need to know to what they are responding. I criticized the warehouse fire article because it offered little that was relevant to a discussion about installing LFP batteries on a boat. The main points were lithium ion battery fires (not LFP batteries) are difficult to put out and the fire company didn't know those batteries were stored in that building, oh and by the way, our company provides those management services.
Our boats have potentially dangerous devices and chemicals on them. We use them and depend on them, whether it be propane tanks and bottles, diesel fuel, gas for the dinghies and generators, solvents and who know what else. Not to dismiss any specific concerns about LFP batteries in a fire, there will lots of toxic gases produced if our plastic boats catch on fire.
We can not avoid risk on our boats, but we can manage those risks. We manage the risk from propane stoves by installing gas sensors, automatic cut off solenoids, storing the tanks in ventilated lockers, and pigtails with quick closing fittings. We manage the risks of having large LA battery banks by properly installing them and charging them.
Yes, a LFP battery might catch fire if a large heavy steel digging pole is repeatedly driven into an unprotected LFP cell as was shown in the video. That seems to me to be an easily avoided risk. The fire that occurred in the video did not appear to be the kind of fire other lithium based battery for which other chemistries are noted. Some lithium ion battery chemistries are prone to thermal runaway in which the lithium compounds in the battery begin to rapidly oxidize and the oxidation becomes self-sustaining from the exothermic reaction. The massive amounts of heat generated in these reactions can cause nearby flammable items to ignite. These are difficult fires to contain because the oxygen source is contained within the lithium compound in the battery. Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries are more stable than other lithium batteries and there have no reports of LFP batteries going into a thermal runaway even when that was the intention.
From my perspective, the greatest safety risk for LFP batteries is inadequate circuit protection. If the BMS should fail and the battery shorts to ground the amount of energy released far exceeds that of a similarly sized LA battery. For this reason, a Class T fuse is required. Other fuse types, mega fuses, ANL, MRBF, can not withstand the in rush of current. The fuse will blow, however the energy will arc across the blown fuse. This does not happen with a Class T fuse.
The true arbiters of risk, the insurance companies, have a mixed assessment of the risk of LFP batteries. My company, BoatUS/GEICO does not place any restrictions on LFP installations. That says something from a company hesitant to insure 30 year old boats sailing 50 miles from Florida to the Bahamas.
I have yet to hear of a incident that involves metal spikes causing a thermal run-away also. yet they are happening on a regular (daily) basis due to mechanical faulures of the battery components themselves and/or failures of the charging components. I agree, all technology has inherent risks but risk management is just that, management not all or nothing.
Batteries going into failure….https://www.facebook.com/100000305351351/posts/pfbid02DDWshZqroNxcBCgqex3HHVaANnZkH2C7rLPA6mE5vTdVk6BmbEgdqojS5ReYA2hZl/?startTimeMs=1000&mibextid=v7YzmG.
sorry you’ll have to watch it through your Facebook account. I promise it isn’t SPAM
sorry you’ll have to watch it through your Facebook account. I promise it isn’t SPAM
Thermal runaway is a daily occurrence with most Lithium chemistries but there is no known documented case of that happening with LFP. My laptop and cell phone present a risk of thermal runaway, but my LFP does not. That is why I never charge the phone or laptop while I am sleeping. The LFP has great potential for a melted wire-initiated fire due to the huge amount of energy it can deliver in a short time. that is why there is a class-T fuse connected 4" from the main positive terminal.