Lift Raft??

[GeneraiT001]

I'm guessing no one does a crossing or goes off-shore without one? From what I've researched the two options are kept on deck in a hard shell or stowed below in a cloth valise? I imagine that comes down to personal choice? From what I've seen the cost is about $3500+tax (CDN) for a 6 man lift raft. Any recommendations for brand or model?

 

[dlochner]

Liferafts are heavy. My 6-person coastal raft weighs about 80lbs. Trying wrestle that up through the companionway in an emergency would be a challenge. The only mounting system that makes sense to me is a rail mount, release a shackle and it falls into the water and inflates.

 

[colemj]

We have been full-time cruising the US East coast and the entire Caribbean Sea, South, and Central America. Until now, we have not carried a liferaft. Our reasoning is that although we are "offshore" for days at a time, we are really not more than 200nm or so, and often much less, from an actual shore. And almost always within a few hours rescue distance. We also have a large dinghy on davits that can be immediately deployed. Beyond reliance on a well-found boat, we rely on our EPIRB for ultimate rescue - with the reasoning that we can survive the few hours in our dinghy if necessary to abandon the boat altogether.

We are gearing up to head across the Pacific now, so a liferaft is something we consider necessary for that. Our experience buying one is:
1) They are expensive
2) Don't get a larger one than you need - if you don't have 4-6 people, don't get a 6-man.
3) They are heavy, and a canister really does need to be mounted for deployment because they are slippery and unwieldy to manually deploy. A valise has handles and slightly less weight, so can be manhandled if one is strong and able enough. That last point is worth considering in terms of being in an abandon ship situation. The valise must be stored somewhere it is immediately accessible under any condition that requires you to abandon ship.
4) Storage is an issue. A canister needs a permanent place, which can increase the cost significantly in making/installing a cradle mount. It will be there permanently, and also need to be easily accessible, and these two requirements often conflict. A valise needs to be stowed someplace in a protected environment when not on passage, and they take up considerable space.
5) Rafts come minimally provisioned. Some don't even have water in them. Most assume <24hrs in the raft. You will need a grab bag with supplies for extended time. It is possible to get the rafts pre-provisioned with more, but the costs rise quickly for that, and often push you into a higher upgraded model than you need.
6) Once one has come to grips with the above, the raft needs to be inspected every 3yrs, and this costs 40-50% of a new raft. Assuming you are near a certified inspection business for your brand of raft. So it isn't a one-time purchase. You can forgo inspection, or DIY, but this could void your insurance, or be outside the law in the country you find yourself in and you be refused to leave or enter.

My suggestion is to consider how much "offshore" you will actually be, how far out of range of reliable rescue services, and how well your boat is founded for things like small fires, broken gear, breached hull/thruhull, etc. Then weigh the risk vs cost/storage/maintenance of a raft.

Mark

 

[dlochner]

For many of the reasons, Mark identified we agonized about purchasing a life raft. What tipped the scale was the thought, "I don't want my last thoughts to be 'I should have bought that life raft.'" We could afford it, so we bought one.

Our choice was a Viking 6 person coastal raft. Since there are only 2 of us on board, a smaller 4 person would have been better, but Viking didn't make one. We chose the coastal model because we anticipated being about 100 miles or less off shore, with an EPIRB we could expect rescue in 48 hours or less. Viking was the only raft in that class with a rail mounted cradle that bolts to the pushpit. We carry a ditch bag with extra water, and other supplies.

If we were crossing oceans we would have purchased an offshore raft, probably one with a SOLAS certification.

Recertifying the raft runs about $1200 USD every 3 years. Shipping is an issue, it has to go on a pallet and motor freight. The cost is steep enough that we deliver and pick up the raft even though it is about 6 hour drive, its a road trip to New England.

 

[dLj]

I use a Viking Solas A 4 man life raft. Solas A is the rating for more than 200 miles offshore. It's the highest rating. Supposedly carries enough supplies of food and water for the 4 people for at least 48 hours. I'd rather not find out how close they calculate that...

As my boat had originally a life raft location right in front of my mast (I had to modify it for the Viking but it was almost perfect), I also went for the self-deploying option. Which means if my life raft goes under water, it self-deploys. It seems to know the difference between breaking waves over the boat and being submersed. No idea how that works, but I've certainly tested it! (Well, not being fully submerged, I guess, although one storm I went through Id sure like to know how it didn't self-deploy!)

I can also deploy it manually. I think mounting on the stern is a better place, but I couldn't easily do that and my boat had the location already set up for it. I a previous off shore boat, I had the life raft mounted on the aft pulpit - cut the connection, drops in ocean. It would harder to manually deploy from my foredeck - they are heavy - but it wouldn't be excessively difficult.

I did not feel a soft cover would be the way to go given how heavy they are and my boat layout. I think some of those decisions depend on your boat layout.

The Viking Solas A raft is what most of the GGR sailors carried - I figured they know more than me about them - hence why I choose the Viking.

dj

 

[GeneraiT001]

We have been full-time cruising the US East coast and the entire Caribbean Sea, South, and Central America. Until now, we have not carried a liferaft. Our reasoning is that although we are "offshore" for days at a time, we are really not more than 200nm or so, and often much less, from an actual shore. And almost always within a few hours rescue distance. We also have a large dinghy on davits that can be immediately deployed. Beyond reliance on a well-found boat, we rely on our EPIRB for ultimate rescue - with the reasoning that we can survive the few hours in our dinghy if necessary to abandon the boat altogether.

We are gearing up to head across the Pacific now, so a liferaft is something we consider necessary for that. Our experience buying one is:
1) They are expensive
2) Don't get a larger one than you need - if you don't have 4-6 people, don't get a 6-man.
3) They are heavy, and a canister really does need to be mounted for deployment because they are slippery and unwieldy to manually deploy. A valise has handles and slightly less weight, so can be manhandled if one is strong and able enough. That last point is worth considering in terms of being in an abandon ship situation. The valise must be stored somewhere it is immediately accessible under any condition that requires you to abandon ship.
4) Storage is an issue. A canister needs a permanent place, which can increase the cost significantly in making/installing a cradle mount. It will be there permanently, and also need to be easily accessible, and these two requirements often conflict. A valise needs to be stowed someplace in a protected environment when not on passage, and they take up considerable space.
5) Rafts come minimally provisioned. Some don't even have water in them. Most assume <24hrs in the raft. You will need a grab bag with supplies for extended time. It is possible to get the rafts pre-provisioned with more, but the costs rise quickly for that, and often push you into a higher upgraded model than you need.
6) Once one has come to grips with the above, the raft needs to be inspected every 3yrs, and this costs 40-50% of a new raft. Assuming you are near a certified inspection business for your brand of raft. So it isn't a one-time purchase. You can forgo inspection, or DIY, but this could void your insurance, or be outside the law in the country you find yourself in and you be refused to leave or enter.

My suggestion is to consider how much "offshore" you will actually be, how far out of range of reliable rescue services, and how well your boat is founded for things like small fires, broken gear, breached hull/thruhull, etc. Then weigh the risk vs cost/storage/maintenance of a raft.

Mark

Thanks for that Mark.

I'd be crossing the Atlantic on a Bayfield 36 so thinking a lift-raft is probably a good investment? I think I can still manage to haul it up from below decks I definitely only get one for a max of 4 people.

They definitely are expensive!!

 

[colemj]

Thanks for that Mark.

I'd be crossing the Atlantic on a Bayfield 36 so thinking a lift-raft is probably a good investment? I think I can still manage to haul it up from below decks I definitely only get one for a max of 4 people.

They definitely are expensive!!

Yes, crossing an ocean would tip the equation to a raft for me. As for hauling it up from below decks to deploy, consider that you might be unable to assist when the raft is needed, and the area it is stored below may be unaccessible (flooded, fire).

It is best that the raft be accessible from the exterior of the boat during a passage. That usually means in the cockpit or somewhere close and somewhat protected. It can be stored away when not on passage.

Mark

 

[BarryL]

Hello,

I am interested in this because I am thinking of doing an off shore race (Annapolis to Newport) and the rules require a raft. My boat has a life raft storage area in the cockpit. A 6 person off shore raft from Superior Life-Saving seems to be a good choice and (relatively) affordable at around $2200.

The US Safety Equipment Requirements for OCEAN states

A boat shall carry adequate inflatable life raft(s) designed for saving life at sea with designed capacity for containing the entire crew. The raft shall be certified by the manufacturer or manufacturer-authorized inspection certificate as compliant with ISO 9650-1, or SOLAS, or ISAF (if made before 2016), or ORC (if made before January 1, 2004). Each raft shall be stored in such a way that it is capable of being launched within 15 seconds. Boats built after 01/06/2001 shall stow each life raft a deck-mounted rigid container in watertight or selfdraining purpose-built rigid compartment(s) opening adjacent to the cockpit or the working deck. Boats built prior to 01/06/2001 may alternatively stow each life raft in a valise not weighing over 88 lbs. securely below deck and adjacent to the companionway. Life raft(s) shall hold current manufacturer-authorized certificate(s) of inspection


landfall navigation and defender carry many different rafts.

Superior Offshore Stream Life Raft

Superior Lifesaving Equipment’s Offshore Stream is the quintessential offshore liferaft, suitable for any recreation boater looking to travel beyond the coastline. The Offshore Stream provides an industry leading, 4 feet of floor space per passenger. C

www.landfallnavigation.com

Good Luck,
Barry

 

[dLj]

There are two ratings for SOLAS life rafts, SOLAS A and SOLAS B. SOLAS A is what is recommended if you are sailing more than 200 NM off the coast as once you are that far or farther then you cannot expect to be rescued in under 48 hours. That must be where I got the 48 hour number above, but re-reading the requirements, I see it's <24 hours for SOLAS B and >24 hours for SOLAS A. There are other considerations such as water temperature and number of flares in the life raft.

Here's a link, doing searches you can get a lot more info.

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/SR0614420WPLiferaftSpecification-[17561].pdf

If you are going more than 200 nm off the coast - it is recommended to get a SOLAS A rated life raft.

dj

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Years ago I read an article written by someone who survived a few days in a life raft, and three cautionary pieces of raft selection advice were given by the writer which stuck with me:
- Pay particular attention to the boarding ladder construction. It can be difficult or impossible to board the raft unless the ladder has a way of resisting swinging beneath the raft when stepped on. It must extend outward and/or down but not back (under). Crew that are cold, wet, exhausted from exertion, and wearing wet clothing will have a very difficult time boarding.
- The floor MUST be insulated to prevent crew hypothermia, even if only a few hours in the raft.
- The rated sizes for number of occupants is smaller than what comfort would dictate. Go up a size for the number of crew that might be in it.
(I would have provided a link to the source of this reference, but it was long ago and I don’t remember enough information to do a web search).

 

[colemj]

Here is the raft we bought: LALIZAS ISO RACING II Liferaft | LALIZAS

It complies with ISO 9650, has a mixture of Solas A and B gear, but is considered <24hrs. To make it >24hrs, one buys a grab bag with the extra gear.

We did not buy the grab bag because it contains easily sourced stuff at wildly inflated prices. Instead, we just bought those items, like emergency food, water packets, etc, and put them in our own grab bag (which coincidently is the exact brand/model bag they use). We also put in a lot of helpful stuff that wouldn't be found in the manufacturer's grab bag, like medicines, fishing gear, usable tools, PLB.

One thing that was a consideration for us is not having rubber fabric with glued seams I have seen and experienced way too many rubber and glue things fail in the tropic heat and humidity. While humidity should not be an issue with a liferaft, since they are vacuum sealed, they will experience constant 100+ temps sitting in the sun in the tropics (canister). I favor polyester reinforced thermoplastic polyurethane with HF welded seams for this environment. Bonus is if you have to get in one, you won't be choking on rubber fumes.

Mark

 

[GeneraiT001]

Heres one I'm thinking of:

Buy Plastimo 4-6 Person Transocean ISO Life Raft in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

 

[colemj]

Years ago I read an article written by someone who survived a few days in a life raft, and three cautionary pieces of raft selection advice were given by the writer which stuck with me:
- Pay particular attention to the boarding ladder construction. It can be difficult or impossible to board the raft unless the ladder has a way of resisting swinging beneath the raft when stepped on. It must extend outward and/or down but not back (under). Crew that are cold, wet, exhausted from exertion, and wearing wet clothing will have a very difficult time boarding.
- The floor MUST be insulated to prevent crew hypothermia, even if only a few hours in the raft.
- The rated sizes for number of occupants is smaller than what comfort would dictate. Go up a size for the number of crew that might be in it.
(I would have provided a link to the source of this reference, but it was long ago and I don’t remember enough information to do a web search).

Most of those issues have been dealt with in the current offerings of offshore rafts. Boarding systems now have either an inflatable ramp, or a secure webbing cradle system that doesn't act like a free ladder. I think many coastal rafts may still have a simple web ladder. Likewise, I didn't come across any offshore rafts that didn't have an insulated floor. One or two of them have an inflatable floor, which would be even better for insulation because it keeps more water off the body.

Size is tricky. Yes, they are small. You won't be lying down in any of them. However, you don't want too large of a raft because there have been cases where the raft capsized because there wasn't enough people in it for its expected designed ballast. Any raft will be very tight and uncomfortable with its designed capacity, but you don't want to go much above that. My thought is if you have 2 people, get a 4-person, and if 4 people, get a 6-person (if 6, get an 8, etc).

The decision comes if you have 3, 5, 7, etc people, where cases can be made to go either way in size. Probably enough ballast for a larger raft, and probably enough room for a smaller raft.

Mark

 

[dLj]

Heres one I'm thinking of:

Buy Plastimo 4-6 Person Transocean ISO Life Raft in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

I looked at this life raft before choosing the Viking. Note it does not list SOLAS A or B rating. It just says 24 hour rating. Since, when I was looking, the Viking stated SOLAS A rating, and it was less expensive than the Plastimo - I went with the Viking. Pricing may well depend upon where you are locates. I was comparing pricing delivered to my boat. I also contacted the companies I looked at and asked for a complete list of what was contained. That way I could build my ditch bag knowing what was inside. I agree with Mark - just build your own ditch bag....

dj

 

[dlochner]

For years, Binnacle.com has been the goto place for marine supplies in Canada. They have some competition now with Defender.ca. Check out their prices. In the US Defender is usually the lowest price with good service.

We bought an ACR ditch bag that was empty and added our own supplies. It has a dedicated place for an EPIRB, a long strap that doubles as a painter, and built in flotation. Sometimes you can find a deal with an EPIRB and Ditch Bag combination. IIRC, that's whatever we did.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Heres one I'm thinking of:

Buy Plastimo 4-6 Person Transocean ISO Life Raft in Canada Binnacle.com

ca.binnacle.com

My Plastimo life raft which was placed in initial service in 2016/2017 was due for its second inspection in 2023. I waited until ‘24 and the servicing vendor (Life Raft & Survival Equipment Inc. of RI) told me the seams were coming apart and it wasn’t worth re-gluing. Mark’s comment about welded seams rang true as something to look for.

 

[GeneraiT001]

My Plastimo life raft which was placed in initial service in 2016/2017 was due for its second inspection in 2023. I waited until ‘24 and the servicing vendor (Life Raft & Survival Equipment Inc. of RI) told me the seams were coming apart and it wasn’t worth re-gluing. Mark’s comment about welded seams rang true as something to look for.
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That kinda sucks. You'd like to get 20 yrs for the money (with regular maintenance).

 

[dLj]

My Plastimo life raft which was placed in initial service in 2016/2017 was due for its second inspection in 2023. I waited until ‘24 and the servicing vendor (Life Raft & Survival Equipment Inc. of RI) told me the seams were coming apart and it wasn’t worth re-gluing. Mark’s comment about welded seams rang true as something to look for.
View attachment 235031
View attachment 235032

That really sucks. I have to recertify mine but am going to wait until next year most likely as it's too late in the season now. I'm wanting to go with it and watch the entire repacking. I believe most places will let you do that. I'm sure hoping mine is still in fine shape.

dj

 

[icanto]

Life Raft sales at www.RECOVERYMARINE.COM, they are very reasonably priced.