is the boat worth the money?

[Reggiemiah]

let me start by saying that i have never sailed before.

my plan next spring is to sail/troll with solar panels down the Mississippi from MN to New Orleans.

here is the boat i'm thinking about starting out with:
http://minneapolis.craigslist.org/hnp/boa/4699445607.html

before you get into the logistics of sailing the mississippi, i just want to know if this boat is a good buy. he said he'd take $900 for it. it's definitely a fixer upper but the owner has already put a lot of work into it. the only thing that really worried me was that when it sits on the trailer a part of the hull bows in a little near the back end of the runners. is that normal, or could this be an issue?

the guy has put a lot of work into it, and does a lot of fiber glass work in general. he has even built his own hulls from scratch.

what else should i look for? any advice i could get would be much appreciated!

 

[Jackdaw]

If that google map is correct, the boat is less than 5 minutes away from me. If you're looking for another set of eyes to look it over, let me know.

 

[centerline]

there is a lot of work to do yet, but it looks like a nice clean boat to start with.... on the basis that there are many boats available that are in rough shape that needs to get to the condition that one is in, just so it can be put into decent shape, I would say if all the pieces are there, its worth it.

if you look long and hard enough, you will be able to purchase a "ready to sail" boat of that class for a few hundred more, but, do you want to wait for someone else's boat that you have to spend MORE money on to modify and set up how you want it to make it yours, or do you want a clean hull now, that has all the hardware that is ready to be put together the way you like it...

the only thing that is going against you on the one pictured, is that, as a novice to sailboating, you dont know where all the hardware goes.... but with the help from folks that sail and race that class of boat, you will learn quickly...

you will get different answers from different people, because we all have different standards and ways of doing things.... but no matter, dont think the cost of ANY boat stops with its purchase price

 

[shemandr]

A small amount of deflection of the hull while on the trailer is not necessarily a deal breaker. When keel boats are set on the ground with the weight of the boat on the keel, the bottom can be seen to deflect. While not desirable it is common. The hull is probably fiberglass laminate without a stiffening core of plywood or other material like the deck would have. It is meant to have the weight or displacement of the boat supported evenly by the water it sits in. When it is on a trailer bunk the weight of the hull is concentrated by the bunk on a small part of the hull - and it deforms. But it will assume it's normal shape once back in the water.
Other reasons for concern in buying a sailboat hull are soft decks (Where water has intruded into the stiffening plywood between fiberglass skins which comprise the deck.) You can sound with a rubber hammer to find this. A dull thud is bad. Another area of concern is the centerboard, it's pin and housing. Make sure the board goes up and down (Don't assume you won't use it), and doesn't have excessive play. The pendant is a source of problems. Seeing that you intend to sail, you need to check the chainplates, which hold the stays which hold up the mast. They shouldn't be corroded or show evidence of water leakage. This is an area to concentrate the rubber hammer on. Also the mast step. Standing rigging (The wire that hold up the mast) should be inspected or replaced outright. At the very least carefully look at he swages which hold the wire terminus to the chainplates. That is where the failures occur most. They will fail on shock loading such as going through waves which you will do a lot of on that trip. No loose strands, no corrosion, no elongation of strands. Spill some water on the deck around the mast step. If it pools around the mast step, that is bad. Carefully check the rudder looking for evidence of grounding or strain on mounting hardware.
Those are the basics. Others will add more and owners of that model can be more specific.

Or have Jackdaw look at it!

 

[Reggiemiah]

thanks for the reply.

$900 for a boat in that class seems very cheap. i have been looking for a couple months.

one of the reason i picked this one is because it has a pretty big cabin for how small the boat is. (i will be living in it for a 1-2 months.) another reason would be that all the parts seem to be there (as far as i could tell), all the hard skillful work as been recently done (fiberglass, gel coat, structural wood items replaced) but the easy things like setting up the cabin have yet to be complete which has dropped the price. i was looking to customize the cabin anyways.

 

[31seahorse]

The Luger boats were "kit" boats in most (if not all) cases. Therefore, you are already relying on the skill of an amateur boat builder. A person at the marina where we keep our boat had a similar size Luger and said, "It sailed like a brick." I don't think that is a positive comment. There are lots of boats on the market.

 

[DHaranSailor]

First question I have is where are you going to work on it during the winter? Depending on your inclination to spartan living it needs a bit of work before you spend a few months on board. Outside of that I agree with the statement that for a few more hundred you can get a boat a bit more finished for your first boat. Second question is what is your plan at the end of the trip? Sounds like a great adventure!

 

[Don S/V ILLusion]

The fundamental issue is you don't know what you don't know. Unless you have someone knowledgeable look at it, you very well may buy someone's liability of a boat which needs far more than the capital cost to make it seaworthy and safe. It's impossible to offer a reliable opinion simply by looking at a few Internet pictures.

 

[Reggiemiah]

i would work on it next spring. my parents have a big barn where i can store it as well.

once i reach the gulf, i'm not really sure what i'll do. possibly try to sell it, buy a car and road trip for a little while. maybe pay someone to drive down, pick it up and take it back to minneapolis, or possibly if i really like sailing trade up for something a little bigger and keep sailing around the coast.

it is definitely hard to tell just from the pictures, but i plan to have jackdaw come look at it with me if possible.

 

[Reggiemiah]

The Luger boats were "kit" boats in most (if not all) cases. Therefore, you are already relying on the skill of an amateur boat builder. A person at the marina where we keep our boat had a similar size Luger and said, "It sailed like a brick." I don't think that is a positive comment. There are lots of boats on the market.

it definitely looks like it would sail like a brick. however, would a slow boat make it easier to learn on to sail? also keep in mind i'm planning to have it on a river, the retractable keel is a must and i assume that's most of the reason it sails poorly. or would i be wrong on that??

 

[caguy]

If Jackdaw is offering you help take advantage of it. He is a knowledgeable sailor. you can also find help at Yahoo Luger group. There are many happy Luger owners there.
I have a Luger 30 and I really like the design of it. 31Seahorse this correct the Lugers were sold as blank plugs. The new owner was expected to cut his own portals, build out the interior and attach all hardware. I've replaced most of the aluminum hardware I was on the 30 with stainless steel. the whole and Dec are made pretty soundly with laid up fiberglass. There is no wood core on the deck or hull (At least not on the Luger 30.)
Much of the value in the boat will come from the equipment such as a saIls, hardware, motor, etc. These will be expensive if you need to replace them.

 

[Reggiemiah]

A small amount of deflection of the hull while on the trailer is not necessarily a deal breaker. When keel boats are set on the ground with the weight of the boat on the keel, the bottom can be seen to deflect. While not desirable it is common. The hull is probably fiberglass laminate without a stiffening core of plywood or other material like the deck would have. It is meant to have the weight or displacement of the boat supported evenly by the water it sits in. When it is on a trailer bunk the weight of the hull is concentrated by the bunk on a small part of the hull - and it deforms. But it will assume it's normal shape once back in the water.
Other reasons for concern in buying a sailboat hull are soft decks (Where water has intruded into the stiffening plywood between fiberglass skins which comprise the deck.) You can sound with a rubber hammer to find this. A dull thud is bad. Another area of concern is the centerboard, it's pin and housing. Make sure the board goes up and down (Don't assume you won't use it), and doesn't have excessive play. The pendant is a source of problems. Seeing that you intend to sail, you need to check the chainplates, which hold the stays which hold up the mast. They shouldn't be corroded or show evidence of water leakage. This is an area to concentrate the rubber hammer on. Also the mast step. Standing rigging (The wire that hold up the mast) should be inspected or replaced outright. At the very least carefully look at he swages which hold the wire terminus to the chainplates. That is where the failures occur most. They will fail on shock loading such as going through waves which you will do a lot of on that trip. No loose strands, no corrosion, no elongation of strands. Spill some water on the deck around the mast step. If it pools around the mast step, that is bad. Carefully check the rudder looking for evidence of grounding or strain on mounting hardware.
Those are the basics. Others will add more and owners of that model can be more specific.

Or have Jackdaw look at it!

thank you, this was very helpful, i will grab my hammer and go for another look soon as i get a chance

 

[Reggiemiah]

Jac., hardwarekdaw is offering you help take advantage of it. He is a knowledgeable sailor. you can also find help at Yahoo Luger group. There are many happy Luger owners there.
I have a Luger 30 and I really like the design of it. 31 seahorse this correct the Lugers were sold as blank plugs. The new owner was expected to cut his own portals, build out the interior and attach all hardware. I've replaced most of the aluminum hardware I was on the 30 with stainless steel. the whole and Dec are made pretty soundly with laid up fiberglass. There is no wood core on the deck. At least not on the Luger 30.
Much of the value in the boat will come from the equipment such as a saIls, hardware, motor, etc.

yes, i have already PMed him. i couldn't track down who originally built the boat, but the sails looked good. as for the other hardware, even someone like me could tell that some is going to have to be replaced. keep in mind it is only $900.

thanks for the help

 

[topcat0399]

A brick that floats will go South on the old muddy as easily as any other barge.

Sounds like great fun to me.

 

[caguy]

Here is the link to the Facebook Lugar Group.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/118005231571751/

Here is the one for the Yahoo group.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/lugerboats/info

Welcome to the group it will be nice having a fellow Luger owner around

 

[Ol Dave]

You mentioned sail/troll with a solar panel. Are you thinking of an electric trolling motor? Local conditions here in Memphis are currents of 2 to 4 mph at low water and 6 plus at high. That's a bit fast if you have to make your way upstream for any reason. Many boat deliveries opt for the upper Mississippi then switching to the Ohio, Tennessee, Tenn-Tom, Black Warrior, Mobile River route.

 

[Reggiemiah]

You mentioned sail/troll with a solar panel. Are you thinking of an electric trolling motor? Local conditions here in Memphis are currents of 2 to 4 mph at low water and 6 plus at high. That's a bit fast if you have to make your way upstream for any reason. Many boat deliveries opt for the upper Mississippi then switching to the Ohio, Tennessee, Tenn-Tom, Black Warrior, Mobile River route.

These are things i have thought about. Keep in mind this plan is still in it's infant stages, i am certainly open to any advice.

The motor and panels I'm looking at will give me about 2/3-1 hp. (50 something pounds of thrust). I figure this is good for a slow 3mph pace when the winds aren't going my way. As for strong currents, possibly have a gas outboard just in case it's ever needed or like you said, take the Ohio. I am definitely open to suggestions.

Thanks for the reply.

 

[rgranger]

If the sails are in decent shape (like he says) the trailer and the sails are worth $900. So you are definitely not being ripped off. At the very worst you would be learning how to rig and sail a boat on the cheap. If it hooks you and you and the performance is not up to your standards you can make a new plan down the road.

 

[kito]

Seems like heading south on the Mississippi would be fine. But being raised on the Mississippi in Illinois, I know how strong the currents are. Getting back home may be a little tricky with not enough horsepower.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Reggiemiah;

As a former sailboat dealer, my advice is to have someone look at that boat before you make the trip down to purchase it. There could be hidden damage for example to the bulkheads from rot, blistered hull, and so on. Jackdaw is knowledgable and he is willing to go and take a look. At least you would get an initial report. You are already aware this is a kit boat and you do not know the history behind it. I would urge you to use caution. Yes there is hardware but if the damage or what ever is found, you have to weight the cost of repairs to include your time and parts not to mention the knowledge to repair sailboats if that is the case too. Often I have seen where many started working on project boats and most after some time, sold them. Again, I would suggest that you take up the offer to look at the boat by Jackdaw.