If your sailboat swamped, would it sink?

[RECESS]

There is also another consideration.

We got caught in a nasty storm on our Pearson 323. The seas went from calm to over 7 foot breakers in about a half hour when a strong storm cell moved over us. We found out later that day we had sustained 60 to 70 knot winds and the storm lasted 4 hours. The breakers were washing over our stern when we were not able to surf every swell, The faces were steep and often breaking. It was a very rough ride but the boat handled it flawlessly. My wife and son were down below listening to a lady on another boat scream they were going to die on channel 16 for a half hour. In these conditions if a boat filled with water, I would not look to stay on a boat whether it was positively buoyant or not. They boat would be constantly washed over and possibly tumbled. If it got to the point the boat was taking on water faster than I could pump it out, we would have to ditch at some point.

 

[Stu Jackson]

TMy wife and son were down below listening to a lady on another boat scream they were going to die on channel 16 for a half hour. ...we would have to ditch at some point.

Glad your wife & son survived the hardest part: listening to that rattletrap! Fear can be contagious, wonder how the boat with the screamer made out.

Ditch into what? Do you sail with a life raft? Any thoughts on the "stay with the boat til ALL else fails" approach?

 

[RECESS]

Glad your wife & son survived the hardest part: listening to that rattletrap! Fear can be contagious, wonder how the boat with the screamer made out.

Ditch into what? Do you sail with a life raft? Any thoughts on the "stay with the boat til ALL else fails" approach?

The boat was directed by the Coast Guard to run it aground as close to shore as they could get as their draft was less than two foot and get off the boat. They just did not have nautical skills. They ran it as close to shore as possible and got off with people there to assist them.

I would stay as long as it was safer on the boat. Once the boat is darn near flooded it is time to go. We do not carry a life raft. Our hard dingy is a Water Tender and even completely filled with water floats. Not as good as a life raft raft, but it is better than nothing. Our sailboat is not positively buoyant so it would sink if the hull was breached or something catastrophic happened to flood it completely. It would take a lot to do it on a Pearson, but it could happen. At some point the dinghy is a safer option, but it would be the last option.

 

[SeamanLou]

a 4000lb boat would need about 65 cubic ft of displacement to keep it afloat, depending on how much gear you had on board. water bottles would work but for the effort and space involved along with the longevity, I wouldnt trust them to keep me safe.... styrofoam is a better option.
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My V22 came with about 12 CUFT of loose styrofoam (roughly about 650 lbs of flotation allowing for some weight of the foam). Not even sure if it was for this boat. Displacement is given at 1800 lbs. Add another 200 for motor and gear. Say about 2000 or 33 CUFT of water. If the top of the mast were just below the surface, it would not take 2000 pounds to hold it. Nor could you fit 33 CUFT of foam in the boat; That would fill the bilge to above the waterline. The question is "How much flotation does it take to float the boat to 0 freeboard?"

I don't think 660 lbs is enough, but I cant fit 33 cuft into the boat and still use the cabin. There's some flotation in the wood, even some in the hull, though it will sink.

All small boats with cabins must have about the same ratio of flotation to weight (specific gravity if you will) but what is it? Can't even find a number for my V22.

 

[Siamese]

My Mariner 19 from Stuart Marine will float if swamped. It has foam forward and aft for positive flotation.

 

[finding41]

Someone in the MacGergor forum figured out that the Mac26 D&S (1650lb) only need 14sq' of Styrofoam to stay just at a positive buoyancy. (I don't think they took in anything on board that floated.) Mine has about 8 sq' left in it. 2 electric bilge pumps. Just keep the water out in the first place.

 

[anchorclanker]

Rather than the soda bottle idea why not just use FRP to encapsulate some of your storage areas. if you completely seal up the v-berth for instance and install a watertight door.

I was thinking something similar. I was watching a documentary a while back about building an aircraft carrier. There is no "Hull" where everything is put inside, rather, its completely modular. Hundreds of sections, similar to snapping legos together, are set in place and butt welded to the adjoining sections.

While its probably not unsinkable, it would take an incredible amount of damage to accomplish. The Titanic would have made New York if it had been built similarly.

 

[mitiempo]

I would stay as long as it was safer on the boat. Once the boat is darn near flooded it is time to go. We do not carry a life raft. Our hard dingy is a Water Tender and even completely filled with water floats. Not as good as a life raft raft, but it is better than nothing. Our sailboat is not positively buoyant so it would sink if the hull was breached or something catastrophic happened to flood it completely. It would take a lot to do it on a Pearson, but it could happen. At some point the dinghy is a safer option, but it would be the last option.

The dinghy (or liferaft) is the right option only when the boat sinks. Many boats are found afloat after the crew is rescued from the raft. Even awash a boat is a better option than a raft that in rough conditions would be just as wet and a lot less visible.

 

[SayGudday]

Not to hijack the thread but is anyone interested in talking about how to repair hull breaches while trying to stay afloat?

 

[MrBill_FLL]

as a water ballast macgregor owner, even I am suspect of the factory demo.

I would imagine my boat would float. after turtle-ing. not unlike many powerboats. bow up, upside down.

my backup plan is a sit on top kayak.


re: breached hulls. depends on the hole. a toilet wax ring and a rag will slow a lot of water.

But for a crack like hitting a container, something like a sail or tarp on the outside would be needed.

 

[Merlin Clark]

Not to hijack the thread but is anyone interested in talking about how to repair hull breaches while trying to stay afloat?

That would be an interesting topic, how about starting a new thread?

 

[caguy]

as a water ballast macgregor owner, even I am suspect of the factory demo.

I would imagine my boat would float. after turtle-ing. not unlike many powerboats. bow up, upside down.

my backup plan is a sit on top kayak.


re: breached hulls. depends on the hole. a toilet wax ring and a rag will slow a lot of water.

But for a crack like hitting a container, something like a sail or tarp on the outside would be needed.

I learned the trick of the wax ring (bees wax) and rag the hard way.
I tweak a dripping through hole fitting made of plastic. It twisted off and in came the water.
I used the other end of the fitting to plug the hole but it wouldn't stay without holding it there. I was kneeling on the sole and looked around for another plug and low and behold spotted a piece of Styrofoam block from under the cock pit. I reached it with my foot and broke off a piece and stuffed it in the hole. It held long enough to get back to the landing.
So yes, Styrofoam in your boat can keep it from sinking.
The lifeguard boat accompanied me back just in case. That's when he shared the idea of using bees wax and rags.
Now I don't leave home without it.

 

[kloudie1]

Continuing the thread hyjack, I think there is a ready-made version of bees wax and a filler.. maybe sawdust ?? on the market.. I am not endorsing this, just pointing it out..
http://www.stayafloatmarine.com/usa/

 

[Ross]

modern diapers will swell up tight in a hole . I have plugged a 4 inch diameter pvc pipe with one and poured 5 gallons of water into the up hill end and none spilled out the bottom. I needed tools the pull the wet diaper out of the pipe.

 

[caguy]

Continuing the thread hyjack, I think there is a ready-made version of bees wax and a filler.. maybe sawdust ?? on the market.. I am not endorsing this, just pointing it out..
http://www.stayafloatmarine.com/usa/

That looks like and has the consistency of bees wax. I remember reading a book by Hal Roth, where he got about a 4' gash in his boat when he went aground in Argentina. The Argentinian coast guard repaired it for him with and old carpet covered with bees wax and applied it to the out side of the hull. This was sandwiched by a piece of plywood bolted to the hull. I was good enough a repair the he was able to get to their port where they repaired it for him.

 

[caguy]

modern diapers will swell up tight in a hole . I have plugged a 4 inch diameter pvc pipe with one and poured 5 gallons of water into the up hill end and none spilled out the bottom. I needed tools the pull the wet diaper out of the pipe.

Some of us aren't old enough for diapers again.

 

[MrBill_FLL]

any comments on this new 'tool' http://truplug.com/

 

[Merlin Clark]

Here's a good article on the subject http://www.oceannavigator.com/January-February-2003/Making-emergency-hull-repair/
I didn't see it in the article but tight woven material (sails, tarps, bimini canvas etc) can be used to slow flooding by stretching the material tightly over the hole/crack with lines rigged around the hull to get the material in place and hold it tight.

 

[Chris Patterson]

The question I have not seen answered yet is, why don't those four guys jump to safety? Help is obviously right next to the boat. And the guy at the helm? HE sure looks happy about the situation. He needs to start manning the pumps.

But seriously, I too have always found it found it a good idea to remove diapers with tools..

 

[justsomeguy]

snip-

But seriously, I too have always found it found it a good idea to remove diapers with tools..