How to rig the mainsail and topping lift to prevent jamming

[Mathilde]

I am looking for some advice on how to rig the topping lift and main halyard at the top of the mast without the rope getting jammed in the mast slot. We are novice sailors and really appreciate any advice we can get. Here is some further information below:

We recently acquired a Catalina 27 for the Summer to sail around Vancouver Island. We are halfway around and are having a swell time (you can check out our project at www.seize-change.org). The boat belongs to a friend, who got it for $100 on account of the fact that the previous owner abandoned it in a marina. It is in excellent condition but hadn't been sailed for 5 years before we cleaned it up, fixed a few things and installed some equipment.

The other day our main halyard got jammed at the top of the mast and we couldn't bring the sail down. Thankfully the winds were very light and we were close to an anchorage where we could climb up and release it, but we don't want it to happen again.

1. In May when we first looked at the boat, I pulled the topping lift up to scrub the other end of the rope before realising it wouldn't come down. I climbed up and saw that there were two pulleys at the top of the mast. One was held out from the mast, towards the boat's stern, and had the main halyard on it. The other was held directly above the mast slot and held the topping lift. The pulley was slightly bent and the topping lift rope had actually slid very snug into the mast slot, causing it to jam and not come down.
2. Not wanting this to happen again, we put a double pulley (similar to the one pictured below) in the position that is held away from the mast, and put both the topping lift and main halyard through it

3. This is where our problem began... What we think happened is that as we were pulling up the main the other day, we turned into the wind, but perhaps not perfectly, and so the main halyard was trying to pull the pulley to swivel to one side, as the wind was catching the sail slightly, while the topping lift was holding it forward. As a result, the main halyard rope slid off the roller and jammed in the tiny slot between the roller and the side of the pulley.

I'm sorry we don't have any photos! I hope this makes sense...

4. We are now in Tahsis... a remote town with a marine store! And we're wondering how to rig it. I guess that the topping lift and the main halyard have to be on separate pulleys, but I'm scared to use the inner pulley slot (the one that is directly above the mast), in case the rope jams in the mast slot again.

Any recommendations (the simpler the better) would be greatly appreciated! We are hoping to leave tomorrow, but we'll see how we go

Thanks everyone. Mathilde

 

[Ron20324]

WHAT SIZE LINES DO YOU HAVE?

 

[jssailem]

Hi Mathilde. If you are at Tahsis your making good time assuming you left Victoria and you decided to sail up the west side of Vancouver Isl.
The 27 is a good boat.

Based on your descriptions you have halyards hang on the outside of the mast and not inside the mast. That being the case and based on the sail size of a 27 and the boom size you really do not need a "topping lift". It is nice addition but not necessary.

• When the sail is down on the boom you can use the Main halyard to hold the boom up off the deck. Just lower the sail and move the main halyard from the head of the sail to the end of the boom. Lift the boom using the main halyard.
• When sailing the main halyard hoist the sail and the leech so the supports the ed of the boom. The weight of the boom helps to maintain the sail shape.

In that case just attach a single block to the top of the mast and it serves to carry the Main Halyard. @Ron20324 asks what size your halyard is because halyard diameter is related to the width of the pulley. Too big and it will jamb/stick/chafe too small and it can slide out of the sheave getting in trouble along the way. You want it to be like Goldie Lock in the 3 bears.... "Just Right" based on the width of the sheave of your block.

Get a single block and attache it to the top of the mast and continue sailing.

Fair winds and gentle seas.

 

[Mathilde]

Thank you! And thanks for clarifying Ron's question, I honestly don't know the size of our rope off the top of my head and I'm not at the boat at the minute, but I'll have a look when I go back and make sure it matches.

We really like the Catalina 27, it's a nice simple boat to learn on. We actually left Nanaimo and went counter clockwise, up and over Goletas Channel, over Nahwitti Bar, around cape Scott and down around Brooks Peninsula, so we have passed our major milestones! We have another month and a bit before finishing our trip in Nanaimo. You're right about our halyards being on the outside of the mast. Glad to hear we don't really need the topping lift, I like the idea of having just one line. This might be a silly question, but what happens to the boom when you are raising the main then?
Does one person have to steer the boat and hold the boom up while the other removes the halyard clip, attaches it to the top of the main sail and raises it? Or is there a temporary way of holding up the boom until the sail is raised?

Thanks again for your help,

Mathilde

 

[Ron20324]

On a C27, I'd keep the topping lift, however you rig it. Boom's too big for alot of crew.

 

[Kingjim91]

Mathilda,
That boat should have side-by-side sheaves in the masthead, one side for the jib halyard, and the other for the main halyard. If those aren’t there, then the block that you have will work fine for the main halyard. How is your jib halyard rigged?
The topping lift should be a single line (red) attached to the mast just below the point where the forestay is attached. Then at the bottom end, a single block and a length of rope (blue) for adjusting.

 

[jssailem]

You need to be the judge regarding the “need” for the topping lift.
It is not unusual to lay the boom on the deck. Head the boat into the breeze then raise the sail. You’ll want to be quick about the raise.

I would want the Mainsheet snug and released only at the last minute to complete the raise. This is to minimize the movement of the boom. You will need to release the Mainsheet to get the main to the top of the mast.

Note that this is an option. You may decide to keep the topping lift. Then you will need to locate a second block for the lift. It can be a cheek block on the mast near the top.

 

[DrJudyB]

Originally, the main halyard was run inside the mast and exited over a sheave. the topping lift connected to the back of the crane and to the end of the boom; it wasn’t adjustable.

The OEM halyard was 3/8” diameter. Don’t go larger.

Judy B
I owned a C27 for 15 years, see the website here

 

[Joe]

Use the diagram Judy posted to reference your changes. You can go to www.catalina27.org to retrieve this and other rigging information.... I suggest you do that asap.

My C27 came with an adjustable topping lift, but it was a wire fixed to the masthead, just before the back stay. The adjusting tackle was a small block(please get out of the habit of calling them "pulleys") at the lower end of the wire and a similar sized cheek block on the boom end. A 5 or 6 foot piece of 5/16 line is attached to the boom with a small pad eye opposite the cheek block, then run up to the block at wire's end, back down to the cheek block and forward on the boom a few feet to a jam/clam cleat (with fairlead to keep it captive). This makes it impossible for the topping lift to interfere with the main halyard.... it's not the best solution. But was a very common set up before everyone, myself included, switched over to rigid vangs and dispensed with the topping lift altogether.

Okay.... let's talk about the main halyard. The original, factory installed halyards, both jibs and main, were 1/8" wire to 3/8" rope... again, very common in the day. If you examine, Judy's diagram again, you'll see an inset of the masthead sheave at about 7 o'clock showing its dimensions. Note the sheave's total width is .437" which converts to about 7/16"..... but the channel is only .281" which is just over 1/4"(9/32?).... The point is that larger diameter line such a 5/16 or 3/16 will fit through the total space width,,, but it will ride over the top of the sheave and will not perform well.

So your options are:
1. Go with a 5/16" halyard... it will fit better than 3/8" and still work in the winches and in your hand.
2. Purchase a wire to rope halyard.... 40ft 1/8" wire to 40ft 3/8" Dacron line... don't let anyone tell you wire to rope is passé.... It's certainly acceptable because it works better than chafing a thicker line, or having it ride up over the sheave and jam.

3. My favorite: Build a "tapered" or "stripped" halyard... where the core is 3/16 or 1/4 dyneema covered over the handled, back half with 5/16 or 3/8 Dacron ... my halyards are the 3/16 x 5/16... it's plenty strong and it's way cheaper.

 

[jssailem]

Both Joe and Judy have explained correctly the mast head sheave issue when the mast was configured with internal halyards. This is by far the slickest way for the halyards to be rigged. The halyards run inside the mast so they are less likely to make noise at night in the wind while you are trying to get some sleep. A Joe and Judy have identified the sheaves do require proper diameter line to work efficiently. This is based on the sheave size the fittings surrounding the sheaves and the exit slots at the base of the mast.

Some masts were built with external halyards (the reason I expected you used a 2 sheave block to run your halyards attached to the outside of the mast head) one must look at other possible options if that is the way your boat is rigged. Such as individual blocks. or even foregoing a topping lift.

Catalina produced a "fixed/adjustable" topping lift as indicated in the diagram by @Kingjim91, which was simply a line/wire secured to the top of the mast and run down to near the boom. A block and line were then attached to the end of the wire and run to the end of the boom through a second block (used to turn the line along the boom) and then terminated with a cleat or a cam-cleat. This allowed you to hold the boom in a raised position when not sailing. Or loosen the topping lift when the main was hoisted. This semi-fixed system works but is not as 'elegant' as the fully adjustable system listed first.

Finally some boats get rigged with what can best be describe as a topping lift tail. I suspect this is often an Owner mod but some manufacturers have done this to their boats, where a length of wire gets attached to the back stay and hangs in the air until needed. then the wire is attached to the end of the boom to hold it in place. I find this a problematic design.

With all that said, since you are experiencing this issue in the middle of your "cruise" and appear to be in the native Peoples reservation near the north f the island, it then becomes a question of what do you have available to you to effect a repair. Can you take the mast down or climb the mast? Do you have a variety of tools aboard? Can you do this type of repair? Are you in a boat yard where you can buy such repairs? Do you want to do this to your friends free boat?

With out such helpful answers all we can do is try to support you with information. Then you will need to see if any or all of it is going to let you get back to your cruising safely.

Best of luck and let us know how you make out.

 

[DrJudyB]

I don't have time to write technical explanation, going into how we measure stretch and creep in highly loaded halyards, but here are some of my conclusions, thoughts and opinions. Mostly opinions. You can look up the technical specifications, if you're interested.

Most manufactures converted to metric sizing in the past few years. You want 8 mm, not 10 mm for those sheaves. 10 mm is a little bigger than 3/8 and may cause some friction, depending on the manufacturer. All rope diameters are "nominal" and the actual diameter can be bigger or smaller than the nominal size. (Kind of like 2 x 4 lumber doesn't measure 2" x 4")

Unless you're a very high tech sailor, I would recommend 8 mm diameter high modulus rope with a polyester cover. (That's close to a 5/16")

I like New England Ropes' VPC or Samson's MLX3. come to mind, and they're not expensive. Get 8 mm diameter for a C27. There are similar ropes from other manufacturers, but these two are widely available and are an excellent value for the money. You can certainly go with something higher tech and more expensive, but these two ropes are more than adequate for cruising and casual beer can racers.

I prefer rope with less stretch than StaSet X for a mainsail halyard, even for cruisers. StaSet-X is, IMO, too stretchy for a mainsail halyard on a C27, given the limitation on diameter. It used to be a comparatively low stretch rope decades ago, but now that the price of high modulus cored rope has come down, it's only a little better than entry level stuff for halyards. Mainsails require better quality halyards, IMO. Even for cruisers.

You don't have to pay for splices in them if you want to keep the price down. Use a halyard knot at the top and a stopper knot at the bottom. All you need to do is put something on the cut ends (whipping, plastic goop, heat shrink tube, etc). If you buy the rope from an online rigger, you can usually order both ends whipped for under $10 per end.

IMO, it's not cost effective to replace an existing halyard with a new wire to rope halyards is comparatively expensive for what you get in terms of weight and stretch, Riggers charge about $100 or more just splicing the rope to the wire. Then you add the cost of wire and rope. In the end, you save money by choosing a higher tech rope that stretches and weighs less.

The one time that it's cost effrective to get a wire to rope halyard is when you'd have to replace the sheaves to use rope. That can happen if the diameter of the sheave is so small that you can't use it with modern high tech rope. But the OEM masthead sheaves on your C27 will accept high tech rope (unless they're totally worn down by rubbing against the mast, and not functioning properly)


Just one sailor's opinion
Judy

 

[Joe]

…………..
Finally some boats get rigged with what can best be describe as a topping lift tail. I suspect this is often an Owner mod but some manufacturers have done this to their boats, where a length of wire gets attached to the back stay and hangs in the air until needed. then the wire is attached to the end of the boom to hold it in place. I find this a problematic design...…………...

That device is not a topping lift , it's a "boom pigtail", and its sole purpose is for boom storage ..... not to be used in any way with the mainsail deployed!!!!!

Another comment, I have been referring folks to the www.catalina27.org website for 20 years..... I just tried the link and could not connect..,, as in the website is no longer active... does anyone know what's up? Has Catalina yachts dropped its support?

 

[Steve_Catalina]

Try this link: https://catalina-27-270-owners-association.groups.io/g/main
All Catalina sites, c34.org as an example are supported and run by volunteers and member support. Catalina Yachts is not supporting individual sites. Cztalina 27 owners may need to step up to keep from losing their valuable site/ resource.

My thoughts,

Steve