How to install/snake an internal halyard?

Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I’ve done this a dozen times on the 367 and the 260. The trick of using a messenger line with several small nuts strung onto the end of it works great as a flexible added weight. A good trick is to mark the messenger line length between the sheave and the exit, so you know when you’re there. Use a small piece of bent coat hanger to fish the Messenger line out.

As others note, pull all of your lines taut, and heel the boat slightly in the direction of the plate exit. That’ll help ensure that it doesn’t go on the wrong side of any line on the way down.

I’ve done this with the mast up and the mask down, and really don’t find much advantage in having it down.
 
Jun 26, 2015
2
hunter 32 grand rivers
Tape up a garden hose up to one of the halyard exits and turn on full blast until water comes out the top of the mast.
Let it drain work the halyard and see if that loosened it up. Sounds crazy but has worked for me many times.
 
Feb 20, 2011
7,990
Island Packet 35 Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
Tape up a garden hose up to one of the halyard exits and turn on full blast until water comes out the top of the mast.
Let it drain work the halyard and see if that loosened it up. Sounds crazy but has worked for me many times.
It does sound crazy. :biggrin:
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,040
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
Since it's relatively easy for you to drop the mast I would do that. I think you can better deal with the problem on the ground. You may need to take that plate off to visualize the problem. You may end up replacing sheaves. You may have to re-run other running rigging to un-foul the halyard. You may have to deal with wiring which may be fouling the halyard (That's my choice if it's only the one halyard), you may find a sponge stuck up there like I did once. You may ... you don't know what.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Thanks for all the suggestions from everybody. The collective brain trust here is impressive! I appreciate all the ideas. Keep ‘em coming!

One comment: there’s so much bend tuned into the mast that it’s not possible to see from one end to the other. It’s got a complicated set of upper and lower diagonals. Untuning it to straighten it out would be a lot of work.

It just occurred to me: heeling the boat in the direction of the cover at the top ain’t possible. It’s a trimaran :cowbell:
 
Nov 18, 2016
150
Hunter 260 Lucky Peak, ID
Timely thread. Looking to do this on our H260 this spring. Want to utilize the unused jib halyard as a spi halyard and need to change the internal entrance exit locations. Definitely will have the mast on sawhorses and use a snake.

Any thoughts/ideas on just fishing the ends vs pulling the whole halyard out and re-running? Thanks.
 

Apex

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Jun 19, 2013
1,197
C&C 30 Elk Rapids
Thanks for all the suggestions from everybody. The collective brain trust here is impressive! I appreciate all the ideas. Keep ‘em coming!

One comment: there’s so much bend tuned into the mast that it’s not possible to see from one end to the other. It’s got a complicated set of upper and lower diagonals. Untuning it to straighten it out would be a lot of work.

It just occurred to me: heeling the boat in the direction of the cover at the top ain’t possible. It’s a trimaran :cowbell:
when you chase the existing with a messenger, you should be able to investigate the old for cause. Abrasion on the old should show the problem type. You can also estimate the height of the problem by the point of chafe. If it's mislead then you will need to pull and rerun
 
Aug 22, 2017
1,609
Hunter 26.5 West Palm Beach
One comment: there’s so much bend tuned into the mast that it’s not possible to see from one end to the other. It’s got a complicated set of upper and lower diagonals. Untuning it to straighten it out would be a lot of work.
That fact may change things a bit.

If the bend is intended to be more or less permanent, then there may be some sort of internal rollers inside the mast to help the lines along their way. If that is the case, then maybe your stiff halyard is just off of it's roller &/or maybe caught next to a shiv? Ir maybe some well intentiond person screwed something to the mast at a place where the screw point catches the line?
 
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jsand

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Dec 18, 2019
1
Enterprise 14 Vaal Dam
I have not tried it, but I have seen a bunch of small nuts tied to a messenger line to give it enough weight to drop down the mast, and still have enough “flexibility” to pull the end through a sheeve or mast exit.

I am replacing my halyard this spring, and hope to use the old one to pull it. I bought a new halyard with the shackle installed, so plan to cut the shackle off the existing halyard, butt join the new one using a few tricks to join them, and pull the new one up the mast, over the sheeve and back down the mast.

Otherwise, you may have to pull the stick.

Good luck,

Greg
Hallo Greg,

We haven't met but I want to thank you for this scheme. We've just had to do this here for
an Enterprise mast and it worked a charm!

This after trying:
1. Poking the halyard down the mast using a building roof to stand upon.
(didn't work).
2. Sucking the shackle down the mast with a vacuum cleaner.
(didn't work).
3. Poking a stiff fence wire down the mast.
(didn't work).
4. Your scheme, light string with 6x 5mm nuts tied on, dropped down the mast from an
access hole near the top. Happy days!

All at the Vaal Dam, South Africa.

best regards, John
 
Jan 19, 2010
1,169
Catalina 34 Casco Bay
I have experienced the same issue. The method that has worked many times is: With the mast down and on horses I would orient the mast so the where I want the new halyard to run is down. All other halyards are down up tight and made fast. If the mast opens up, GREAT ! If not, I would at least remove the sheave for both inspection and extra room. Using a wire fish tape would insert it in the sheave area and have it ride along the mast. I prefer to do this outside in daylight. Using a mirror to reflect sunlight into the mast to see.
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
I’m the original poster. I never came back with the solution.

As it turned out, the exit boxes for the jib, spinnaker and code zero at the mast head were all badly worn Also there was a wide roller a few feet down that guided the main halyard to the front to navigate the big prebend tuned into the mast that was badly worn.

The pin for the two rear sheaves was crooked, due to wear of the hole it went through. That caused the sheaves to rub against the side of the masthead casting.

We replaced the three halyard exit boxes on the front side of the mast with new 70 mm boxes from Selden, after reshaping the holes to accommodate the new ones,

We rebuilt the sheaves for the main halyard and topping lift.. We pressed new bearings into the sheaves. We replaced the axles for the sheaves, after boring out the holes for the axles and installing bushings so the axle would be aligned square to the loaded sheaves.

I’m lucky my friend has a machine shop at his ranch. Total cost was about $300 in parts,. 2 hours of disassembly to diagnose the problems, about 8 hours to research what parts to use, 3-4 hours of shop time, and about 4-5 hours installation time.

It’s been working smoothly since then, except for the time I hoisted the main with the halyard wrapped around the topping lift halyard....
 
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Apr 5, 2009
2,774
Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs Oak Harbor, WA
If you have something screwy going on at mid-height, you can run a borescope up with the halyard and see what is happening. I have this 33' unit that works great and they have longer ones. Put a retrieval line on the halyard shackle and hoist it all the way to the top to expose most of the old halyard. then using electrical tape, connect the end of the borescope to the halyard at the mast exit plat and haul it up the mast using the retrieval line. I use this thing for all kinds of stuff. It is waterproof to 1 meter and I use it for checking the prop and zincs. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L3CVQGJ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
 
Mar 6, 2008
1,078
Catalina 1999 C36 MKII #1787 Coyote Point Marina, CA.
I want to install a halyard in the mast. There's already a halyard in there, but I think it's twisted around something else in the mast. There's too much friction compare to the other halyards. So I want to pull it out and re-lead it through the mast.

Are there any professional methods for "dropping" a messanger line throught the mast without snagging it on other things inside the mast?

The mast is up right now, but we can lower it, if needed.
There is one other halyard inside the mast(which is running free), a coax cable for radio and wires for lights.
The top of the mast is a welded assembly, but there is a 3" diameter plate that can be removed.


Thanks in advance for advice from folks with experience doing this.

Judy
1992 Farrier F24 Trimaran

Edit: there’s only one other halyard internal to the mast,not two as I originally wrote. The jib halyard is internal the main halyard, for some inexplicable reason is external for most of the run.
Judy, why not use the halyard that has no friction to pull the new halyard in. To do this, first use a 1/8"cloths line and pull the good one out, then pull 2 halyards back in to the mast. Is that possible without dropping the mast?
 
Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Judy, why not use the halyard that has no friction to pull the new halyard in. To do this, first use a 1/8"cloths line and pull the good one out, then pull 2 halyards back in to the mast. Is that possible without dropping the mast?
Thanks @JoeWhite , but if you read the whole thread, which i started 20 months ago, the solution was more complicated than replacing the old halyard with a new one. Your method is a time honored way of replacing halyards but it was not the soLution to my problem, as it turned out.

The problem was fixed by replacing the jib halyard sheave box, which was binding up every time there was a heavy load on it. One day, all of a sudden, it became impossible to get the main all the way up, even using the winch.

And the other sheave boxes and shelves at the top of the mast were close to failure too. I replaced all of them preemptively before they failed. Two years ago I replaced every sheave at the bottom of the mast and at deck level. At this point, All the 30 year old mast components have been replaced or Re-machined.

Judy
 
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rhwins

.
Dec 8, 2007
9
Hunter 28.5 Long Beach, CA
I haven’t done it, but I’ve heard of people using the chain pulls for lights and ceiling fans to feed down the mast and using a magnet to pull the chain out of the bottom. You can buy that stuff at many hardware stores by the foot and it’s pretty darn cheap.
I really like the magnet idea. My boat doesn't have an inspection plate and will have to pull the halyard through the lower shive. So, I will drop a long string with a small ferrous nut at the end from the top and pull through, and, in turn, pull the new halyard with the other end.