I have an 1983 O'Day 25 and have been sailing the Great Lakes for 20 years. I am set to retire next year and want to sail to the USVI. My knowledge of ocean sailing is limited as I have never sailed on the ocean. Is my boat too small for this trip. We have lived aboard and are okay with not setting foot on land for a few weeks at a time. My boat has weathered some very bad storms of which we have survived but I dont know it the boat is large enough to handle the ocean. any advice????
How small is too small for ocean sailing
- Thread starter ridesroadking1
- Start date
- Status
I have more than 10,000 miles of blue water experience, mostly in Navy 44s and Nicholson 55s. Based on my personal experience, I wouldn't go blue water in less than anything than a 36. There are posts on this board where people have taken 25s across the pond, but those are more the exception than the norm. This seems to be a function of proper safety equipment, experience, etc. I brought my Pearson up from Ft. Lauderdale to Solomons - rode the Gulf stream and was 110 mi due east of Jacksonville FL as we moved north. None of my crew had blue water experience, but all had a great deal of experience in sailing the waters of the Chesapeake. Good luck.
It's NOT the size of the boat, it's the construction. For example, our C34 is a coastal cruiser, not meant to cross oceans. Have folks done it, yes. I wouldn't.
John Vigor wrote a book called 20 Boats to Take You Anywhere, or something like that.
After the boat come the crew and skipper.
O'Day 25 to VI? Not.
Dana 24? Sure.
Moore 24s have sailed multiple races to Hawaii, with pretty strict rules of prep.
John Vigor wrote a book called 20 Boats to Take You Anywhere, or something like that.
After the boat come the crew and skipper.
O'Day 25 to VI? Not.
Dana 24? Sure.
Moore 24s have sailed multiple races to Hawaii, with pretty strict rules of prep.
Stu, you're correct - I should have made my point better. The Navy 44s were purpose-built for midshipmen training - lots of abuse. The Nicholson 55s were built in the 70s for the Whitbread 'round the world races.
You don't need to sail your boat there, you can have it shipped...
http://www.yacht-transport.com/page/stthomas.html
Once you get the boat there, you're a coastal cruiser. It's still big water with lot's of potential for danger, but a whole lot safer than sailing the boat you have across the open ocean.
http://www.yacht-transport.com/page/stthomas.html
Once you get the boat there, you're a coastal cruiser. It's still big water with lot's of potential for danger, but a whole lot safer than sailing the boat you have across the open ocean.
If you're starting in Florida your boat is likely capable for the USVI especially if it is the fin. The shoal 25/CB is a little tender. We had an O'day 22 when I was a kid and despite it being a rather poor sailing boat we put her through some nasty weather.
Just watch the weather windows.. You could also hop down the East coat but I personally would not take one out the St. Lawrence to get there. Maine South you'd be ok.. As others have said it is more about the skipper than the boat.
Just watch the weather windows.. You could also hop down the East coat but I personally would not take one out the St. Lawrence to get there. Maine South you'd be ok.. As others have said it is more about the skipper than the boat.
comment on less than 36 foot
It was said in one of the early post 36 foot smallest.
You missed my post about Vito Dumas's circumnavigation in a boat 30 foot (and that was stretching the numbers).
Stop and see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0lx0iclg0
Then it was said that the Dana 24 would do it. It goes to the design of the boat and its construction.
I have an O'Day 26 and I bought a different design at 28' for such ventures. I was off New Jersey in several storms and now am comfortable in sailing the 28 offshore.
That being said, I know of two guys who sailed 22 foot lake boats to the Bahamas from the Miami area. They vacationed in the Bahamas and returned safely. So a O'Day 25 could go to the Bahmas.
And you could sail it from your home to Miami. The only time you have to go outside would be from Sandy Hook to the first entry to Barnaget Bay and a stretch from Atlantic City to Cape May.
But all the way to Virgin Islands? Just make sure you take one of those emergency life rafts... Fair winds...
Ed K
- - - - // - - - -
It was said in one of the early post 36 foot smallest.
You missed my post about Vito Dumas's circumnavigation in a boat 30 foot (and that was stretching the numbers).
Stop and see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U0lx0iclg0
Then it was said that the Dana 24 would do it. It goes to the design of the boat and its construction.
I have an O'Day 26 and I bought a different design at 28' for such ventures. I was off New Jersey in several storms and now am comfortable in sailing the 28 offshore.
That being said, I know of two guys who sailed 22 foot lake boats to the Bahamas from the Miami area. They vacationed in the Bahamas and returned safely. So a O'Day 25 could go to the Bahmas.
And you could sail it from your home to Miami. The only time you have to go outside would be from Sandy Hook to the first entry to Barnaget Bay and a stretch from Atlantic City to Cape May.
But all the way to Virgin Islands? Just make sure you take one of those emergency life rafts... Fair winds...
Ed K
Attachments
Most boat designers Beneteau, Catalina, Hunter categorize each boat for its sea worthiness:
From the Catalina website:
[FONT=arial, verdana]Design Category[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]A - "Ocean" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]exceeding 8 (over 40 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]exceeding 4 (over 13 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]B - "Offshore"Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 8 (34-40 kts.)Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 4 (13 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]C - "Inshore" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 6 (22-27 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 2 (6.5 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]D - "Sheltered waters" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 4 (11-16 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 0.5 (1.5 ft.)[/FONT]
Your boat may have a design category that may also help with the decision.
Good Luck
From the Catalina website:
[FONT=arial, verdana]Design Category[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]A - "Ocean" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]exceeding 8 (over 40 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]exceeding 4 (over 13 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]B - "Offshore"Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 8 (34-40 kts.)Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 4 (13 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]C - "Inshore" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 6 (22-27 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 2 (6.5 ft.)[/FONT]
[FONT=arial, verdana]D - "Sheltered waters" Wind Force [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 4 (11-16 kts.) Significant Wave Height [/FONT][FONT=arial, verdana]up to and including 0.5 (1.5 ft.)[/FONT]
Your boat may have a design category that may also help with the decision.
Good Luck
I've got that book. It's "Twenty Small Sailboats to Take You Anywhere"
http://www.amazon.com/Twenty-Small-Sailboats-Take-Anywhere/dp/0939837323#_
He lists boats ranging from 20 to 32 feet, what they all have in common is they are well built and have a proven track record for toughness. Most, however, lack modern creature comforts.
Interesting read if you like sailboats.
The picture below is the first page of a great three part article from the 2007 issues of "good old boat" magazine. It had a lot of good points. It addressed things I would never have thought of; the difference between anchor lockers for heavy seas vs coastal cruising, cockpit size versus drainage ability, etc. lots of good info there. You can download '"good old boat" past issues, or order them on CD.kpgraci said:
Keith
Attachments
This is my take on this subject and I think you will agree. The Great Lakes can be more treacherous than any ocean. Of course it goes without saying that the boat has to be able to take whatever comes it's way, but a lot hinges on the ability and the wise decisions of the captain and crew.
Captain Fuzzy Face
The question was about the boat not about the Captain.
May I refer you to Vito Dumas? I posted a link to a video summary, but who has read the translation of his book?
Alone Through the Roaring Forties by Vito Dumas and translated by Jonathan Raban
Get a real feel for blue water sailing in a small boat. Understand the history of its design. The designer of Dumas's boat has commented on looking to designs of Colin Archer and William Atkins.
It was mentioned previously, there are articles in 'Good Old Boats' magazine about boat design. Well there are articles in every issue of Good Old Boats by noted naval architects Ted Brewer and Bob Perry. Both these guys have written books.
Now in cold weather is time to get and read and study and understand the whole story.
Read about Perry's design of the Baba 30 and compare to Dumas boat.
Ed K
One’s mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.” Oliver Wendell Holmes
The question posed by the poster was could an O'Day 25 sail from the far reaches of the Great Lakes to the Virgin Islands.
The question was about the boat not about the Captain.
May I refer you to Vito Dumas? I posted a link to a video summary, but who has read the translation of his book?
Alone Through the Roaring Forties by Vito Dumas and translated by Jonathan Raban
Get a real feel for blue water sailing in a small boat. Understand the history of its design. The designer of Dumas's boat has commented on looking to designs of Colin Archer and William Atkins.
It was mentioned previously, there are articles in 'Good Old Boats' magazine about boat design. Well there are articles in every issue of Good Old Boats by noted naval architects Ted Brewer and Bob Perry. Both these guys have written books.
Now in cold weather is time to get and read and study and understand the whole story.
Read about Perry's design of the Baba 30 and compare to Dumas boat.
Ed K
One’s mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions.” Oliver Wendell Holmes
Attachments
I've read a good number of those books through the years Ed. I've also read about people like John Guzzwell, Lynn and Larry Pardey, and Sven Yrvind, who made ocean crossings in smaller boats that they designed and built themselves. I saw Sven and his girlfriend in Newport RI showing their sailboat Bris many years ago. http://www.yrvind.com/ Small Boat Journal did some articles on Bris back then.
Captain Fuzzy face
Great website. So have you made an offer on 'Bris'?
Ed K
Addendum:
"With all the talk about "disparities" in innumerable
contexts, there is one very important disparity that
gets remarkably little attention -- disparities in the
ability to create wealth."
"People who are preoccupied, or even obsessed, with disparities in income are seldom interested much, or at all, in the disparities in the ability to create wealth, which are often the reasons for the disparities in income. Thomas Sowell
Joe,
Great website. So have you made an offer on 'Bris'?
Ed K
Addendum:
"With all the talk about "disparities" in innumerable
contexts, there is one very important disparity that
gets remarkably little attention -- disparities in the
ability to create wealth."
"People who are preoccupied, or even obsessed, with disparities in income are seldom interested much, or at all, in the disparities in the ability to create wealth, which are often the reasons for the disparities in income. Thomas Sowell
Attachments
Thanks for your input, as I said I have years of experience on the great lakes and as someone pointed out that the great lakes can be as treacherous as the ocean. I dont know this to be true as I have never sailed on the ocean, but this is what I have heard. I just dont have any experience on the ocean and I dont know if there is a big difference in sailing techniques for lake to ocean but Im a quick learner. My boat is a 25 O'Day shoal draft swing keel. Its weathered storms that you would consider small hurricanes and come through with flying colors. Its one of the most stable boats ive ever sailed but Is it up to ocean crossing? As far a equiptment goes I have everything exept radar including the emergency quick inflate life raft. The boat is well maintained and all saftey and emergency equiptment including GPS transponder locater. With that being said Im still considering selling this one and buying one already located in the Virgin Islands. Any advise on this??? Got a boat you want to sell Me?????
ridesroadking
Ridesroadking said, " With that being said Im still considering selling this one and buying one already located in the Virgin Islands."
Are you permanently moving to V.I.? Other wise just charter a boat the first time in V. I.
Why sell a boat you are otherwise happy with to get one that you will need to spend money and lots of time on? Unless your are going to live there and are into rebuilding as a way to maintain sanity.
If after you charter there and decide to stay, take the adventure of a life time and sail from the far reaches to the coast and down the coast to Miami then thru the various islands to V. I.s.
Also, you do not need radar to make the trip, just two sailors could make it. Three would be better on the coast and thru the islands. But as I said earlier I know of two guys who made it to Burmuda in a 22 foot boat.
Sail on,
Ed K
"GOD does not deduct from a man's allotted time, those hours spent sailing."
- - - - // - - - -
Ridesroadking said, " With that being said Im still considering selling this one and buying one already located in the Virgin Islands."
Are you permanently moving to V.I.? Other wise just charter a boat the first time in V. I.
Why sell a boat you are otherwise happy with to get one that you will need to spend money and lots of time on? Unless your are going to live there and are into rebuilding as a way to maintain sanity.
If after you charter there and decide to stay, take the adventure of a life time and sail from the far reaches to the coast and down the coast to Miami then thru the various islands to V. I.s.
Also, you do not need radar to make the trip, just two sailors could make it. Three would be better on the coast and thru the islands. But as I said earlier I know of two guys who made it to Burmuda in a 22 foot boat.
Sail on,
Ed K
"GOD does not deduct from a man's allotted time, those hours spent sailing."
Attachments
I also have a 25 w/centerboard. I would have to change a couple of things to go open ocean (100+ miles out).
1. go one size up on standing rigging from original
2. Add at least one spare halyard to the top of the mast
3. Have the bottom drop board in companionway entrance locked in and watertight
4. two additional PVC cockpit drains straight thru the stern from cockpit floor of at least3" diameter
5. At least 2 big reefs in main. Three is better
6. I assume roller furlerjib
7. Very strong harness clip on points, with backing plates
8. Positive locks on lazarettte and fuel tank lids
9 Vhf antenna on pole on stern rail in case the mast goes
And all the usual emergency gear
I did take a 36 foot Non Such to Bernuda but winds never got over 25K. Waves still got over 12 '
The Oday 25 is pretty strong hull for an inexpensive boat but somewhat tender. Lots of parts don't have proper backing plates which should be added. I think if you start furtherr north you can go direct to the VI. If you leave from Florida, you'll be beating directly into the prevailing winds (from the east) the whole trip and in this boat it will take forever. I think this can be done safely if you prepare, use common sense, a decent weather window, and don't rush. Self steering or autopilot would be a godsend. I think you need at least one more experienced crew. I would volanteer but as soon as I mentioned it, my wife started to mention divorce. O well. Ernie
1. go one size up on standing rigging from original
2. Add at least one spare halyard to the top of the mast
3. Have the bottom drop board in companionway entrance locked in and watertight
4. two additional PVC cockpit drains straight thru the stern from cockpit floor of at least3" diameter
5. At least 2 big reefs in main. Three is better
6. I assume roller furlerjib
7. Very strong harness clip on points, with backing plates
8. Positive locks on lazarettte and fuel tank lids
9 Vhf antenna on pole on stern rail in case the mast goes
And all the usual emergency gear
I did take a 36 foot Non Such to Bernuda but winds never got over 25K. Waves still got over 12 '
The Oday 25 is pretty strong hull for an inexpensive boat but somewhat tender. Lots of parts don't have proper backing plates which should be added. I think if you start furtherr north you can go direct to the VI. If you leave from Florida, you'll be beating directly into the prevailing winds (from the east) the whole trip and in this boat it will take forever. I think this can be done safely if you prepare, use common sense, a decent weather window, and don't rush. Self steering or autopilot would be a godsend. I think you need at least one more experienced crew. I would volanteer but as soon as I mentioned it, my wife started to mention divorce. O well. Ernie
- Status